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Cut Ending Stuff

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Hey, why does Atton have to be a force ghost at the end of game? It may be just an alternative ending (in which he didn't fight Sion). Maybe there supposed to be some triggering event, depending on which Atton dies or stays alive and travels with you.

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Hey, why does Atton have to be a force ghost at  the end of game? It may be just an alternative ending (in which he didn't fight Sion). Maybe there supposed to be some triggering event,  depending on which Atton dies or stays alive and travels with you.

 

Yes, (if I remember correctly) exactly this is said in the comments of this dialogue.


"Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug

 

S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he

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Star Wars is not about Darkness and mature adult situation. It's a light hearted fantasy where the good guys win in the end. As Kreia would say "Changing it's nature would be the ultimate crime". I personally like the original ending incomplete as it is than seeing my companions slaghtered before me.

 

You mean like the Empire Strikes Back? Or Revenge of the Sith, when it comes out?

 

Star Wars is generally a light hearted fantasy, but let's face it -- you have to have conflict to have a good story, and having that conflict in a sci-fi space opera with epic trends like Star Wars requires darkness at some time or another.

 

Further, Star Wars has plenty of adult situations that are alluded to, it just doesn't go into detail. What do you think happened to Leia when Vader was interrigating her with a torture droid? Cake and ice cream?

 

The darkness in Star Wars is there for anyone who bothers to look for it; the fact that it gets glossed over with fade-to-black transitions doesn't mean its not there, or that a more visceral Star Wars story is out of place from time to time.

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Star Wars is not about Darkness and mature adult situation. It's a light hearted fantasy where the good guys win in the end. As Kreia would say "Changing it's nature would be the ultimate crime". I personally like the original ending incomplete as it is than seeing my companions slaghtered before me.

 

You mean like the Empire Strikes Back? Or Revenge of the Sith, when it comes out?

 

Star Wars is generally a light hearted fantasy, but let's face it -- you have to have conflict to have a good story, and having that conflict in a sci-fi space opera with epic trends like Star Wars requires darkness at some time or another.

 

Further, Star Wars has plenty of adult situations that are alluded to, it just doesn't go into detail. What do you think happened to Leia when Vader was interrigating her with a torture droid? Cake and ice cream?

 

The darkness in Star Wars is there for anyone who bothers to look for it; the fact that it gets glossed over with fade-to-black transitions doesn't mean its not there, or that a more visceral Star Wars story is out of place from time to time.

 

From Mike Gallo:

Jonric: What are you doing to meet the lofty expectations for the story and the game as a whole? And what does Obsidian bring to the project that will be new, fresh or otherwise different?

 

Mike Gallo: As I mentioned earlier, we started the design process in much the same way we did with the first game - with a list of things that we all liked about the Star Wars movies, and what made that universe so compelling. We wanted to work with Obsidian because of their previous experience with RPGs, we all wanted a darker storyline with The Sith Lords, and we felt that Obsidian fit that perfectly.

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Mike Gallo: As I mentioned earlier, we started the design process in much the same way we did with the first game - with a list of things that we all liked about the Star Wars movies, and what made that universe so compelling. We wanted to work with Obsidian because of their previous experience with RPGs, we all wanted a darker storyline with The Sith Lords, and we felt that Obsidian fit that perfectly.

 

And the game does indeed have a darker storyline. Nowhere however does it say we want gratuatus scenes of violence and an M rating. So perphaps Obsidian misinterpreted their wishes.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Mike Gallo: As I mentioned earlier, we started the design process in much the same way we did with the first game - with a list of things that we all liked about the Star Wars movies, and what made that universe so compelling. We wanted to work with Obsidian because of their previous experience with RPGs, we all wanted a darker storyline with The Sith Lords, and we felt that Obsidian fit that perfectly.

 

And the game does indeed have a darker storyline. Nowhere however does it say we want gratuatus scenes of violence and an M rating. So perphaps Obsidian misinterpreted their wishes.

 

If true, then the DS ending of KotOR 1 would never have seen the light of the day.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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If true, then the DS ending of KotOR 1 would never have seen the light of the day.

 

Never felt particularly compelled to replay KOTOR. Whats so special about the DS ending ?


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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That storyline was completed very early in development and okayed by LA. If they had had concerns about the "darkness" of the ending, it seems to me they would have raised concerns about it long before they let Obsidian go to the trouble of programming it. Still, I agree the possibility exists that once LA saw the actual ending they might have gotten a case of nerves, but I think it unlikely. If you look at the dialogue trees, they are very detailed in description.

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Conclusion: I'm guessing that the second part was when Goto came across HK the first time, who activated his assassin protocols and tried to kill Goto, who escaped. After some time, HK saw Goto again and decided that he is to die, just not at that moment. On Malachor V, he saw his chance.

 

Actually I think they are two different endings. The first if you go light side and the generator is activated, the second if you go dark side and it isn't.

 

As for the Star Wars is not about darkness, I can only think Yminale hasn't watched the same movies I have. It may not be about it, but there is plenty there.

 

Sure it's melodrama, and the bad buys are really bad, and the good guys pretty good, and the god guy win in the end. Emphasis though is definitely on "in the end".

 

On the way pretty much the entire Jedi order are first weakened, then hunted down and killed. A big, destructive civil war, the people of Naboo are rounded up into concentration camps and entire planet blown up. I guess if you find religious purges and genocide light hearted it's all a giggle.

 

Not to mention Qui-Gon getting killed, we know Pademe dies though maybe not on screen. Anakin's mother gets tortured to death, Leia and Han are both tortured, Luke has his hand cut off.

 

Is that not dark? There isn't lots of blood everywhere, but then there wouldn't be in game either.

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If true, then the DS ending of KotOR 1 would never have seen the light of the day.

 

Never felt particularly compelled to replay KOTOR. Whats so special about the DS ending ?

 

You will have to kill Jolee and Juhani at the temple summit, then you can corrupt Zalbaar to respect your lifedept by killing Mission, and finally, you can kill Carth if you're female.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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You will have to kill Jolee and Juhani at the temple summit, then you can corrupt Zalbaar to respect your lifedept by killing Mission, and finally, you can kill Carth if you're female.

 

But thats not forced on you it's your choice and as far as I am aware Juhani and Jolee will fight back. If you read the bio boards many people dont play DS for that reason.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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You will have to kill Jolee and Juhani at the temple summit, then you can corrupt Zalbaar to respect your lifedept by killing Mission, and finally, you can kill Carth if you're female.

 

But thats not forced on you it's your choice and as far as I am aware Juhani and Jolee will fight back. If you read the bio boards many people dont play DS for that reason.

 

No, they will try to fight you when you've turned DS at the temple summit. You don't have to the choice to leave them alive.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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No, they will try to fight you when you've turned DS at the temple summit. You don't have to the choice to leave them alive.

 

But you do have a choice not to fight them.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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On the Atton death scene, from reading the scripting posted in this thread and from his dialogue ingame, I kind of interpreted it as he would end up dying for you if you made him a jedi. It is foreshadowed in his dialogue. He says he want's to become a jedi to protect you or atleast to slow the bad guys down so you can get away.

 

Maybe if you don't make him a jedi, you get the 'tag along' ending. Though the force ghost does kind of make sense there if he did die. That would be easier to interpret if we knew what the PC's choices were in that scene. It could work either way I suppose.

 

Just had to chime in there. I've been a long time lurker, and you guys keep me entertained at work :ph34r:

 

Take care,

Mel

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No, they will try to fight you when you've turned DS at the temple summit. You don't have to the choice to leave them alive.

 

But you do have a choice not to fight them.

 

If you go LS, yes. Point being, that Lucasarts didn't remove the ending from TSL because it being un-Star Wars, there were other reasons.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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If you go LS, yes. Point being, that Lucasarts didn't remove the ending from TSL because it being un-Star Wars, there were other reasons.

 

Thats still a different and much less explicit ending. It really isnt all that unstarwars either, the bad guts can win (see EPV) but it's a tempory thing.

 

The more extreme parts Zalbaar killing mission is not automatic for example.Although I havnt seen it. I seriously doubt he rips her arms off or pops off her head.

 

I said it was removed because it was too explicit and dark and would have pushed the game into an M. I see nothing that contradicts that.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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"I said it was removed because it was too explicit and dark and would have pushed the game into an M. I see nothing that contradicts that."

 

Now wait, don't you think they(ob) would have the storyline approved(la) before even beginning to script it? Logic dictates to save time(which they already didnt have very much) and money they would have done this. Even so, seeing how you can cause or see(ls) endless amounts of chaos throughout the game anyway and stuff that in my opinion would probably serve a 'm' rating, why not put the ending in there? Simple. LA Accountants: "hmmm looks like december is coming up, good sales would transpire here... tell the head that obsidian should hurry up so we can get it done in time for xmas" So in my mind i'm thinking this is the only reason to do this, whereas the 'm' rating suggestion kinda lacks substance due to the fact that most of the game has what most would consider amounts of 'mature' stuff.

 

But thats just my two cents.

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That's why I like that you can play Lightside and/or Darkside. You can get the happy happy ending or you can get the dark ending. In the LS ending most, if not all, of your companions live and in the DS version most of the die to serve your goals. So in my book that makes it that much more of a shame that we didn't get to see what they had planned, I love a good ending, it can make or break a game for me.

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I said it was removed because it was too explicit and dark and would have pushed the game into an M. I see nothing that contradicts that.

 

What about it is any worse than anything else shown in the game?

 

Sion beating up Treya, and later cuting her hand off is in there. So is getting Visas to sacrifice herself.

 

Sion beats up Atton and cuts his arm off is suddenly worse becuase it is all the same character and he dies? Given the game is full of people dying?

 

There isn't any reason to assume suddenly there would be blood everywhere or something, given the bloodless nature of the game (even with swords), so why would it rate M?

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Now wait, don't you think they(ob) would have the storyline approved(la) before even beginning to script it? Logic dictates to save time(which they already didnt have very much) and money they would have done this. Even so, seeing how you can cause or see(ls) endless amounts of chaos throughout the game anyway and stuff that in my opinion would probably serve a 'm' rating, why not put the ending in there? Simple. LA Accountants: "hmmm looks like december is coming up, good sales would transpire here... tell the head that obsidian should hurry up so we can get it done in time for xmas" So in my mind  i'm thinking this is the only reason to do this, whereas the 'm' rating suggestion kinda lacks substance due to the fact that most of the game has what most would consider amounts of 'mature' stuff.

 

But thats just my two cents.

 

The raters obviously didnt consider it M stuff because the game is a T and thats all that matters at the end of the day. Especially with a holiday release because its parents doing the buying.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Sion beats up Atton and cuts his arm off is suddenly worse becuase it is all the same character and he dies? Given the game is full of people dying?

 

 

Sion is a scene of explicit maiming/torture automatic M or totally cut.

 

It's not that people die that censors object to its HOW they die that makes all the difference.

 

People die in KOTOR its a T.

People DIE in Manhunt it's an M.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Sion beats up Atton and cuts his arm off is suddenly worse becuase it is all the same character and he dies? Given the game is full of people dying?

 

 

Sion is a scene of explicit maiming/torture automatic M or totally cut.

 

It's not that people die that censors object to its HOW they die that makes all the difference.

 

People die in KOTOR its a T.

People DIE in Manhunt it's an M.

 

But how are you SO sure that it actually SHOWS him torturing Atton? By looking at the dialogue comments of their actions, the only torturing scene is when Sion cuts off the arm and lifts Atton a few times. And since when has cutting off someone's arm or hands in a Star Wars game be something that requires an M rating. Like it says, the next scene with Atton is when it shows his mutilated body talking with the Exile, which implies there was an extensive torturing session, but does anyone see? Nope. And seeing a graphically created character all mutilated and nasteh isn't all that bad, considering that he'd probably look pretty much like Sion. You said that that scene is a scene of "explicit maiming/torture" and is an "automatic M or has to be totally cut," now, like I said, only part of the torture scene was planned to be shown. I doubt that Obsidian even planned to show the whole scene, as that would surely make the game close to an M rating. That's why they would only put the arm-cutting scene. It wouldn't get an M rating if they included it. There were other reasons for the cutting than "OMGOMGOMGOMG! It's li3k t3h g0ry! CUT IT OUT! CUT IT OUT! We'll g3t t3h M!!!!!!!"

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To me, it seems that Kreias scene with Sion and Nihilius seems to be far worse then Sion cutting Attons arm off. I mean, Sion is beating the crap out of that old hag. I'm actually surprised that they didn't cut that out...

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Indeed, beating the crap out of an old, defenseless (well, at that point she was), lady, with your fists and kicking her around, is much worse than showing a guy cutting off some other guys arm and talking about mutilating him.

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