Ukraine Conflict - In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only war!

[Lexx]

18 hours ago, Malcador said:

Don't think they have, really.

Everywhere in Europe the right wing parties are winning, mostly based on lies and manufactured outrage. Russian troll farms are pretty good at making us fight against each other.

[Sarex]

19 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Everywhere in Europe the right wing parties are winning, mostly based on lies and manufactured outrage. Russian troll farms are pretty good at making us fight against each other.

You are really out of touch if you think that's why people are voting for the right.

[Lexx]

If I ask the people in my area for why they are voting right, it's always the same garbage build on lies and "feelings."

Edited February 2 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

If I ask the people in my area for why they are voting right, it's always the same garbage build on lies and "feelings."

One of the main reasons why the right is seeing such success is because of the migration crisis and how many governments have failed to understand this and deal with this 

The left and Liberals dont seem to understand this despite the years of unhappiness around  not seeing the levels of EU  migration as a problem. Im surprised you not aware of this considering the rise of the AfD that gained much support because of the well-meaning but terrible Merkel era around the Syrian refugee crisis

The failure to address migration has pushed more people  towards the right that typically wouldnt have voted for right-wing parties and this is unfortunate because I definitely believe in the EU and what it represents 

And this is not unique to the EU,  its the same in countries like South Africa and the US where migration and the failures to meaningfully address  it has also become  a massive voting issue 

 

 

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

One of the main reasons why the right is seeing such success is because of the migration crisis and how many governments have failed to understand this and deal with this 

Migration crisis in Finland happened when right wing parties were in government, they failed miserably to handle it. Then left wing government rise to power and rightwing opposition constantly complained about migration crisis and illegal migration even though it was minimal because of covid restrictions, but right wing parties succeeded to win election with their agenda. And now they are looking how to migrate more people in Finland for work force and same time their poorly executed spending cuts have caused domestic demand to drop two digit numbers which has caused massive layoffs and record high unemployment.

So are you sure that right wing parties are getting election victories because how migration crisis has been handled?

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Migration crisis in Finland happened when right wing parties were in government, they failed miserably to handle it. Then left wing government rise to power and rightwing opposition constantly complained about migration crisis and illegal migration even though it was minimal because of covid restrictions, but right wing parties succeeded to win election with their agenda. And now they are looking how to migrate more people in Finland for work force and same time their poorly executed spending cuts have caused domestic demand to drop two digit numbers which has caused massive layoffs and record high unemployment.

So are you sure that right wing parties are getting election victories because how migration crisis has been handled?

Yes I  think its a huge reason for the rise of right-wing support 

What do you think the reasons are if migration is not one of the main reasons?

[Elerond]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes I  think its a huge reason for the rise of right-wing support 

What do you think the reasons are if migration is not one of the main reasons?

Successful marketing where they blame issues to some population that isn't really blame of those issues, but it is easier to sell than trying to tell that in past we have collected too little pension money, which now causes issues because population does not grow but gets older causing increase of both pension and health service expenses

And failure to increase value of goods and services that we export, causing problems when it comes to increasing salaries in such extend that inflation has started to eat people's purchasing power.

Failure to act on research about changing climate in past 50 years, which has lead to need to try find fast ways to fix infrastructure and policies that are designed to different kind of climate

Failure to understand we can't lean single supplier in important products like  fertilizers, gas and oil.

Failure to see that tying large parts of economy to few big companies is as dangerous if not even more dangerous than tying it to public sector, because it both makes difficult to refocus economy if there is global issue and people's livelihood is tied to entity which they don't have any say over.

Failure to see that we need to invest to future not pump billions and billions to sectors that are dying, even if that would cause short term problems. 

Failure to understand that short term gains from privatizing public infrastructure will lead to monopolies that will cause issues

Failure to ensure bureaucracy of people immigrating to work does not prevent creation of jobs and cause people to go else where. System where seeking asylum is easiest way to get residence but with prohibition to work, will lead situation where migrants are see only as burden.

Failure to create rules to prevent tax havens, unchecked imports, equal postal fees, need to have same standards for imported goods than domestically produced goods have, have same refund rules for imported goods than domestic goods, have equal tariffs.

Failure to have coherent clear foreign policies that are same for all

and lots of other issues. 

[Malcador]

7 hours ago, Lexx said:

Everywhere in Europe the right wing parties are winning, mostly based on lies and manufactured outrage. Russian troll farms are pretty good at making us fight against each other.

Ah ok, fair, guess my experience over here coloured my view a lot as all we get is rah rah Ukraine stuff.

[Zoraptor]

Dunno really, countries have always loved to blame their problem on the outside and it's the same with the 'rise of the right wing'. Far easier to believe it's being done to us by Bad Actors than to accept that we haven't really progressed very far from Thog hitting Thag with a club for wearing sacred forbidden cow leather instead of sacred accepted sheep leather and using our spring instead of theirs.

As always, the actual data on influence operations suggests that they are disproportionately- and considerably so- pro west and pro status quo politics. Indeed, one might almost believe that there being so much talk of pro Russian influence operations comes directly from pro west ones.

Current example: the number of 'independent' media and other outlets complaining about Trump freezing the money that was keeping them running. You know if they were accepting money from Russia they'd be compromised and bereft of integrity and independence, but have USAID or some CIA slush fund pay them: independence totally maintained. Or the 'Russian' pro far right campaign in Romania that turned out to be paid for by, well, Romanians attempting to manipulate who'd make the runoffs.

[Sarex]

10 hours ago, Lexx said:

If I ask the people in my area for why they are voting right, it's always the same garbage build on lies and "feelings."

Or maybe they don't want to talk about their actual reason because they don't want to get in to it with you.

Here in Serbia for the longest time the "right" was a silent majority. When you talked with the fiery left about voting they always were confused about not know anyone who voted for the right. Well yeah, because people don't care about you enough to get in to a discussion, especially when they see you are looking for a fight.

The real reasons people are voting for a different option are obvious enough, the migrants and the economy. There isn't a year that goes by that you don't hear about someone driving a vehicle through a crowd of people or something similar. The economy is down in the dumps without any outlook for improvement. Euribor is sky high, the sanctions on Russia are hurting the EU more then they are the Russians. People want to be secure and well fed, that's always been the main voting motivator.

Edited February 2 by Sarex

[Malcador]

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/02/2/7496431/

As you can imagine now people are running with a narrative that there's 100+ B missing. 

 

[Gfted1]

Moscow bomb kills pro-Russia paramilitary leader | Russia | The Guardian