Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part VII

[InsaneCommander]

Assassin changes

Quote

Hello, Pathfinders!
Over the two years since Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous was released, we have identified the least popular class and the one that you, our favorite players, have been asking us to improve. We have listened and are delighted to announce that the Assassin class has been redesigned and upgraded in update 2.2, which will be available on November 21 with The Lord of Nothing DLC! We understand that the main problem with the old Assassin was using poisons in a world where most enemies are immune to poisons. So, we've added new mythic feats that allow you to ignore this immunity.

Edit: besides Mythic poison, they also said in the comments that they will include mythic armor and shield training in the same patch.

As for other changes to the assassin,

Quote

Also, we added a new mechanic: Assassinate Target. The Assassin can make a full-round action that instantly kills a target marked with Mark of Death. A target unaware of the Assassin (you must sneak up to the target) must make a Fortitude saving throw with DC 10 + the Assassin's level + Intelligence modifier, and dies on a failure. On a success, this Assassin attack is treated as a critical hit (it still needs to be confirmed) and the target gains the Shaken condition for 1d4 rounds. After that, Assassinate Target cannot be reapplied to the target for one day.

Some people raised concerns about the int modifier and enemies that are immune to ability damage and crits.

I wonder if a Legend combining this class with Executioner would have some benefit. Or would you simply end up with two types of assassinate abilities with different scalings? Too late here to think clearly, I have to go to bed...

Edited October 5, 2023 by InsaneCommander

[HoonDing]

Still a terrible class

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

I wonder if a Legend combining this class with Executioner would have some benefit. Or would you simply end up with two types of assassinate abilities with different scalings?

Probably the latter, many abilities that have the same name but different sources, like a Paladin and Cleric channel energy, are technically different abilities in WotR and scale independent of each other.

This probably won't convince me to give Assassin a shot, it looks like it'd take a lot of investment to make work and doesn't provide as much as a dip as a Vivisectionist (little does to be fair) or a Thug. As written I just don't see assassinate target competing with a full attack while poison requires a lot of investment for some minor ability damage. I guess getting sneak attack on anything is cool.....but by the time you get it you've probably got many strategies to set up flanking or otherwise activate sneak attack.

Honestly the Assassin seems more suited to be used against the player than be used by the player.

[InsaneCommander]

Maybe modders will finish fixing it. If I ever play the game for the sixth or seventh time, I'll go with a Demon Executioner. Maybe until then the Assassin becomes good enough for me to consider changing to it.

Edit: data mine suggests these are the new 15 archetypes:

Quote

Hag-Riven (Bloodrager)
Winter Child (Druid)
Dark Sister (Witch)
Flesheater (Barbarian)
Separatist (Cleric)
Dual-Cursed (Oracle)
Geomancer (Sorcerer)
Reanimator (Alchemist)
Ghost Rider (Cavalier)
Tandem Executioner (Hunter)
Tortured crusader (Paladin)
Dark Lurker (Rogue)
Weretouched (Shifter)
Shadowcaster (Wizard)
Prophet of Pestilence (Unknown class, you can guess by looking which class left out of archetype. Imo - Shaman or Bard/Skald)

Also looking at archetype names, new DLC spells gonna very necromancy-earth themed.
Sarkorians DLC spell were nature-themed.

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by InsaneCommander

[xzar_monty]

I don't know, reading on those improvements made me think that "assassination" here means that an ass is turned into even more of an ass than it already was. I.e. it's not interesting.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

Maybe modders will finish fixing it. If I ever play the game for the sixth or seventh time, I'll go with a Demon Executioner. Maybe until then the Assassin becomes good enough for me to consider changing to it.

Edit: data mine suggests these are the new 15 archetypes:

 

The last one is a Shaman. There's a guy on reddit who posts the datamines and he includes an abilities as well.

My guess is the new bard archetype is going to be what the android uses, but the shifter dude has a unique subclass so who knows?

[InsaneCommander]

The new companion, Penta:

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

The new companion, Penta:

 

so the companion o' the fifth dlc is named penta? am assuming pentatonic scale will be relevant someway/somehow. how droll (<--sarcasm.) am also gonna go way out on a limb and guess class is bard. 

now if penta played a hurdy gurdy, kazoo or euphonium, we might be intrigued. the flute in the image looks modern, so why not a euphonium? 

HA! Good Fun!

[uuuhhii]

numeria android are boring

automaton would be much better

[bugarup]

Did the Swarm (respecced to kineticist and it was the most broken thing ever I saw in this game). Kind of meh, has nothing on MOTB evil ending. Loaded the save before to continue with Azata, now Charname is swarmed by butterflies and locusts. Azata is truly all-accepting.

[Gromnir]

it is too bad the separatist is a wotr archetype. the mythic powhaz make the separatist a trap option unless you are using it exclusive for the through the ashes and lord of nothing dlc. 

am remaining highly suspicious o' the shadowcaster implementation. is no way to do shadowcaster exact like pnp. crpgs is fundamental different from pnp, so different is not a problem in our estimation.  the thing is, shadow spells has been buggy since release and they continue to work not quite as their in-game descriptions suggest. 

regardless, we were pleasant surprised by through the ashes. owlcat attempted to do something different with their implementation o' pathfinder rules compared to what they showed us for kingmaker and most o' wotr. through the ashes was not perfect, but we were mighty optimistic about the different approach owlcat took insofar as encounter and level design.

am looking forward to the dlc #5.

...

we will say, lord of nothing is either a brave or foolish name choice. both? is a freaking cartoon bullseye, no? game "journalists" is hardly the most mature or clever group you are likely to encounter, so it takes little imagination to anticipate the various puns and in-jokes the dlc will spawn, particularly if the owlcat offering is lackluster or bad.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 9, 2023 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

19 hours ago, Gromnir said:

it is too bad the separatist is a wotr archetype. the mythic powhaz make the separatist a trap option unless you are using it exclusive for the through the ashes and lord of nothing dlc.

Why is it that bad? I don't know this archetype. They get some abilities two levels later, right? And why would that be ok in the dlcs?

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

Why is it that bad? I don't know this archetype. They get some abilities two levels later, right? And why would that be ok in the dlcs?

as a cleric, the separatist is able to choose a domain which is not part o' their deity's portfolio, but they suffer a level and attribute penalty when using domain related benefits. so, as a priest o' abadar you could choose nobility as well as madness, a domain which would otherwise be verboten for those followers o' the master of the first vault. in wotr, clerics o' abadar pick two domains from the following: nobility, law, protection, earth and travel. no madness. no community, no *insert whatever you think is a powerful and groovy domain here*. the downside for choosing the separatist domain means you take the negative attribute and level modifiers when using the second domain.... and you lose access to the deity favored weapon benefit. 

in pnp, the separatist is an extreme useful archetype... if you are able to convince your dm the second domain makes sense in the context o' your character. try and explain why your separatist priest o' gorum should get access to animal (feather) is possible, but...

the wotc impossible domain powha makes the separatist kinda pointless. there is no penalties involved in adding an impossible domain to your mythic priest and you may choose multiple such impossible domains.

the thing is, the through the ashes and lord of nothing characters don't get mythic powhaz. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

Oh, of course. Impossible domain makes it useless. Not to mention you are not considered a heretic.

Well, there is a small chance they will implement this in a good way. They could at least include lots of good reactions. My Cleric pt will be as a Iomedae follower and I will stay on the Angel path regardless of what she says. In different circumstances I might pick a separatist subclass. But this will probably be another case like the Assassin.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Depending on implementation, I can see the Separatist being a good way to pick up the Animal domain for a pure 20 cleric early and without a mythic ability. Last time I played, WotR wonkiness was giving a free dip level to pets (ie a Hunter 19/Fighter 1 would have a level 20 pet instead of 19), if that still holds you could grab Boon Companion and end up with a full level animal companion on a Separatist 20 for the tradeoff of a proficiency in a single martial weapon.

I don't see much other use for the archetype in the main game, and this is largely conditional on a specific interaction. Obviously Owlbrew applies, like the datamined Shadowcaster shows it getting an increasing profane bonus to intelligence instead of what pnp gets, so who knows what the Separatist will actually end up being.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Depending on implementation, I can see the Separatist being a good way to pick up the Animal domain for a pure 20 cleric a bit late and without a mythic ability.

fixed. particularly with multiclassing, every major patch sees boon companion interact a bit different and often inexplicable. two different multiclass combos which nevertheless have the same amount of domain class levels will produce differing animal companion levels. however, even if boon companion is once again broken, then assuming the level penalty for separatist is applied same as in pnp, that would mean your pure cleric wouldn't get their animal companion until level six instead o' four. so, even if boon companion breaks and you are able to squeeze out a level twenty animal companion, you nevertheless would be acquiring the companion late... later. 

edit: the two level delay is precise why we would avoid adding the animal domain to a through the ashes or lord of nothing separatist character. through the ashes saw a difficulty spike which encouraged us to have a party with multiple animal companions, particular leopards and horses as their upgrades come at level four. am recalling not hitting level four until earlyish into the third and penultimate significant area of through the ashes. as such, even more than the base game, adding an animal companion sooner is a premium benefit. sacred huntsmaster, hunters generally, wildland shaman, and numerous other options which provide animal companions at level one enjoy a big advantage in the through the ashes dlc. a separatist cleric would be self gimping to take animal as their non-deity approved domain and would not gain the benefits o' the companion until some time after the start o' dlc 5.

as such, animal domain when added via a separatist doesn't make a whole lotta sense for either a main campaign character or through the ashes. unfortunate.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

New archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. Part 1

Imagine being a Pharasma Separatist Cleric with the Undead domain.

[uuuhhii]

16 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

New archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. Part 1

Imagine being a Pharasma Separatist Cleric with the Undead domain.

ghost rider does look nice

almost make one hope deadfire have mounted combat

[Gromnir]

35 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

ghost rider does look nice

almost make one hope deadfire have mounted combat

ghost rider is thematic kewl. unfortunately, if implemented same as the pnp archetype, the ghost rider loses cavalier's charge, banner and mighty charge. to lose charge related bonuses is a significant sacrifice. but yeah, ghost rider is a nifty option we might consider even though it is probable weaker than other cavalier options.

weretouched also has similar appeal as ghost rider in that on paper the archetype is weaker than those already available, but it makes up for lack o' power with admitted subjective cool points.

shadowcaster is the one option am most curious 'bout. is no way to implement as it works in pnp, but the new wizard archetype does have serious potential IF all the wotr shadow spell bugs has been addressed. 

HA! Good Fun!

[bugarup]

I don't get separatist. Take a domain that your deity does not allow but it's gonna be weakened? Yeah nah, how about I take a different deity instead.

[Gromnir]

15 hours ago, bugarup said:

I don't get separatist. Take a domain that your deity does not allow but it's gonna be weakened? Yeah nah, how about I take a different deity instead.

separatist is a highly useful archetype, but not so much in owlcat's wotr. no doubt you may imagine a few domain combinations which no pathfinder deity provides, yes? in pnp you would need petition your gm to allow for the custom demigoddess o' madness and community, linda belcher.

the thing is, the impossible domain mythic powha makes this archetype pointless save for characters specific generated for the through the ashes and lord of nothing dlc. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps am fully aware the community domain is pretty meh in pnp. 

[InsaneCommander]

New archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. Part 2

 

Quote

 

Sorcerer: Geomancer

This is a unique archetype by our game designer Valeriy Kormanovskiy. He was inspired by a similar class in Final Fantasy Tactics whose abilities changed depending on the terrain where it was located. By adapting this concept to the mechanics of Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, we developed the archetype Geomancer, who can use their blood to give their spells terrain-dependent enhancements. Utilizing terrain allows the Geomancer to not only deal extra damage and weaken enemies but also to heal and protect allies.
Sacrifice a drop of blood to summon the power of nature and unleash it upon your enemies!

 

I wonder how this works exactly. Not clear if this is dependent on the soil you are standing on, like in FFT.

[Gromnir]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, InsaneCommander said:

New archetypes in The Lord of Nothing DLC. Part 2

 

I wonder how this works exactly. Not clear if this is dependent on the soil you are standing on, like in FFT.

wotr rangers is already coded to benefit from favored terrain. one assumes the geomancer will utilize already existing terrain designations 'cause doing so is a resource saving approach and particular for dlc, anything which saves resources is a win for developers.

HA! Good Fun!

[Sarex]

Continued playing my Aeon run. So far the Mythic missions seem to be much more interesting than the Angel path.

[bugarup]

I was disappointed with Aeon quests. I expected it to be something ineffable out of China Mieville or at least Fallen London (no idea why, now when I think, I played enough of both Owlcat's games to be familiar with their writing limitations), not a ridiculously petty pedant.    Angel path, while predictable and cheesy, was at least consistent within a concept of "Rigid do-gooder with binary views does maxed out power fantasy".  

Aeon finale felt real satisfying though.