BruceVC Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 16 hours ago, Sarex said: How are the power outages nowadays? Better, it always depends on the EAF ( energy availability factor ) which is measured by the reality of generators in power stations that are active and aren't falling over and then they require immediate repair So what has been happening the last 2-3 years, which has been the worst period for load shedding, we basically have the same power stations constantly not producing the electricity they supposed to because there generators keep breaking but Eskom has been working hard to fix the problems in these power stations And when these are working then the EAF is better, 60% or so, so we have vastly less load shedding. So this week I have only had 1x2 hour load shedding window per day in normal hours (6am-midnight )and then for the 2 weeks before that there was no load shedding So its getting better but load shedding will continue until we are less dependant on the Eskom grid and thats also happening with green energy and private sector investment but this will take 2-3 years before we see its benefit 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-votes-to-codify-abortion-rights-into-state-constitution_n_65411b43e4b0ae2dc0b56c1a?yptr=yahoo There have been some interesting election outcomes in the US but not surprising with abortion rights being supported in Ohio and the legalization of cannabis Overturning R vs W I maintain was the worst GOP supported and Conservative decision the SC could have ever made around overall public sentiment, I understand this is an emotional and sensitive topic but the SC decision is seen by most women as taking away a fundamental right that women should have The real question now is "will the anger about R vs W be greater than other issues in the US in the 2024 election " ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 11 minutes ago, BruceVC said: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-votes-to-codify-abortion-rights-into-state-constitution_n_65411b43e4b0ae2dc0b56c1a?yptr=yahoo There have been some interesting election outcomes in the US but not surprising with abortion rights being supported in Ohio and the legalization of cannabis Overturning R vs W I maintain was the worst GOP supported and Conservative decision the SC could have ever made around overall public sentiment, I understand this is an emotional and sensitive topic but the SC decision is seen by most women as taking away a fundamental right that women should have The real question now is "will the anger about R vs W be greater than other issues in the US in the 2024 election " ? Despite being "pro choice" by nature, I can see the logic of R vs W not really being in the constitution, but something that is up to the state governments to decide on. As long as the states don't "overreach" and try to prevent their citizens to visit other states or prosecute medical staff other states for violating their own, stricter laws. It's supposedly a free country and people should be free to travel and have medical procedures done at a location of their choice. Just my $0.25 and as somebody without a womb to boot. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gorth said: Despite being "pro choice" by nature, I can see the logic of R vs W not really being in the constitution, but something that is up to the state governments to decide on. As long as the states don't "overreach" and try to prevent their citizens to visit other states or prosecute medical staff other states for violating their own, stricter laws. It's supposedly a free country and people should be free to travel and have medical procedures done at a location of their choice. Just my $0.25 and as somebody without a womb to boot. Yes and each state should vote on that outcome and the Federal government should stay out of it because I believe its such a sensitive issue you will get criticism either way the Federal government influences things But I do believe overturning R vs W was also a massive mistake because this is seen by many US citizens as taking away an established and decades long women's right. So I understand the anger and pushback "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, Gorth said: Despite being "pro choice" by nature, I can see the logic of R vs W not really being in the constitution, but something that is up to the state governments to decide on. As long as the states don't "overreach" and try to prevent their citizens to visit other states or prosecute medical staff other states for violating their own, stricter laws. It's supposedly a free country and people should be free to travel and have medical procedures done at a location of their choice. Just my $0.25 and as somebody without a womb to boot. cheap pill at every pharmacy anything less would be choice for the rich but not the poor it is simple 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, uuuhhii said: cheap pill at every pharmacy anything less would be choice for the rich but not the poor it is simple Nah, its definitely more complicated than that There is a reality where people dont take any responsibility for a women falling pregnant and the solution is a simple " thats okay, just get an abortion " and this comes from men as well as women And abortion can create real long-term mental problems like depression. So I dont accept the idea that " a cheap pill at every pharmacy " is the right solution. You need counseling and other similar support before deciding to abort Edited November 8, 2023 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 3 hours ago, BruceVC said: And abortion can create real long-term mental problems like depression. So I dont accept the idea that " a cheap pill at every pharmacy " is the right solution. You need counseling and other similar support before deciding to abort Are you implying that the decision to abort or not is for someone other than the pregnant woman to make? If not, why is counseling and other similar support necessary, and what is wrong with the cheap pill option? I accept that the situation is extremely complicated. A comparison: alcohol can and does create real long-term mental problems like depression, and is also a significant contributing factor in most violent crimes and homicides. Yet, we have cheap booze everywhere. Should it be otherwise, in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, xzar_monty said: Are you implying that the decision to abort or not is for someone other than the pregnant woman to make? If not, why is counseling and other similar support necessary, and what is wrong with the cheap pill option? I accept that the situation is extremely complicated. A comparison: alcohol can and does create real long-term mental problems like depression, and is also a significant contributing factor in most violent crimes and homicides. Yet, we have cheap booze everywhere. Should it be otherwise, in your opinion? The decision to get an abortion is generally always a complicated one and how its decided on and how the women gets support during and afterwards matters For example a 14 year will hopefully have her parents involved and for many people they consider abortion to be anathema due to religious reasons so if they want to get an abortion they will need support from family and ways to balance their religious beliefs. I dont think a " cheap pill " at a supermarket should ever be an option unless it comes with the required counseling and understanding of the decision. Because you cant take it back once its done It will be ultimately the womens choice but you also want partners to be involved who understand this difficult decision And its not the same as alcohol abuse at all. Thats about an addiction and abuse of a substance that most people dont abuse. But there many examples of alcoholics who beat the addiction and they live a normal and better life I know personally of 2 women who had abortions when they were 18-19 years old and they suffered emotionally for years in different ways afterwards but only 5-6 years later and it was mostly around guilt and a sense of betraying the maternal instinct that most women have, well thats how they explained it to me Edited November 8, 2023 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, BruceVC said: I dont think a " cheap pill " at a supermarket should ever be an option unless it comes with the required counseling and understanding of the decision. Because you cant take it back once its done So you are in effect saying that the choice is not for the woman herself to make and that someone other than the woman herself knows better. That is quite odd, in my view, but of course, this is precisely what the religious right, for instance, in the US if fighting for, sometimes quite literally. As for you bringing up 14-year-olds, that looks like a cop-out to me, because 14-year-olds are minors and therefore not permitted to make many other choices, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, xzar_monty said: So you are in effect saying that the choice is not for the woman herself to make and that someone other than the woman herself knows better. That is quite odd, in my view, but of course, this is precisely what the religious right, for instance, in the US if fighting for, sometimes quite literally. As for you bringing up 14-year-olds, that looks like a cop-out to me, because 14-year-olds are minors and therefore not permitted to make many other choices, either. Nope in many countries a teenager doesnt need permission from parents to get an abortion, like SA, so its not a cope-out. Its a reality and so is the possible negative emotional outcome which for some reason you seem to be ignoring? https://www.womens-choice.co.za/permission-abortion-south-africa/ And Im not saying that, I explained its ultimately the women's choice but a " cheap pill " is not the solution because thats basically commoditizing the entire abortion process in a tick-box and thats not what abortion is Do you know anyone who has had an abortion at a young age or even an older age? Have you asked them how they feel about it? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 "Abortion should include counseling." "You religious nutter!" Internet, please never change. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 2 hours ago, BruceVC said: Nope in many countries a teenager doesnt need permission from parents to get an abortion, like SA, so its not a cope-out. Its a reality and so is the possible negative emotional outcome which for some reason you seem to be ignoring? Of course I am not ignoring it. Don't be silly, please. The negative emotional outcomes from both having an abortion and not having an abortion can be quite serious, to the point of derailing a life for quite some time. My question was whether the pregnant woman herself is the person who gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 In terms of parent permission, it's pretty clear to me that if a teenager is having unprotected sex without their parent's knowledge, and then wants to go get an abortion, again without the parent's knowledge, that parent has already failed on many levels. There are far too many crappy parents out there for me to think they deserve to be included in such a serious situation. Of course, counseling services are a must. That is what Planned Parenthood actually does. They counsel women and offer them aid. I've had 2 co-workers who credit Planned Parenthood with helping them deal with their teenage pregnancies. Both chose not to abort, and planned parenthood gave them the resources to get through school, go to college, and they eventually ended up teaching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Hurlshort said: In terms of parent permission, it's pretty clear to me that if a teenager is having unprotected sex without their parent's knowledge, and then wants to go get an abortion, again without the parent's knowledge, that parent has already failed on many levels. There are far too many crappy parents out there for me to think they deserve to be included in such a serious situation. Yeah, it's a shame that there are no checks in place as to who gets to be a parent. Something similar exists in democracy: while it's great that everybody gets to vote, the downside of this is that everybody, indeed, gets to vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) does the counseling come before or after the pill who can afford it who is offering it paster friend of the parent maybe no matter how nice the word it will be another choice for the rich situation taking away the cheap pill everywhere would cause far more trauma so it is simple Edited November 9, 2023 by uuuhhii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 13 hours ago, xzar_monty said: Of course I am not ignoring it. Don't be silly, please. The negative emotional outcomes from both having an abortion and not having an abortion can be quite serious, to the point of derailing a life for quite some time. My question was whether the pregnant woman herself is the person who gets to choose whether to have an abortion or not. Yes and I have answered that question, its the womens choice because she is having the baby. But when it comes to a minor its critical that parents are involved in whatever decision is made and I am talking about most parents who care about their children, this obviously wouldn't apply to incest But certain countries allow a minor to decide that without parents being involved and I dont agree with that. But thats a separate issue And obviously the partner should be consulted which in most healthy relationships you would assume that would be done but end of the day its the womens choice "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Hurlshort said: In terms of parent permission, it's pretty clear to me that if a teenager is having unprotected sex without their parent's knowledge, and then wants to go get an abortion, again without the parent's knowledge, that parent has already failed on many levels. There are far too many crappy parents out there for me to think they deserve to be included in such a serious situation. Of course, counseling services are a must. That is what Planned Parenthood actually does. They counsel women and offer them aid. I've had 2 co-workers who credit Planned Parenthood with helping them deal with their teenage pregnancies. Both chose not to abort, and planned parenthood gave them the resources to get through school, go to college, and they eventually ended up teaching. Unfortunately its more complicated than that in SA, I cant comment on the US for underage pregnancy You have single parents working or grandparents raising kids and we have a massive problem with underage pregnancies. And the minor falling pregnant is not always because of bad parenting, sometimes this is a outcome of societal conditions. For example teachers getting kids pregnant and the parents are unaware because its assumed you can trust the teachers But the decision to get an abortion is still a serious decision that requires parents to be involved with whatever emotional trauma may or may not occur afterwards. So its not always about bad parenting "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 3 hours ago, uuuhhii said: does the counseling come before or after the pill who can afford it who is offering it paster friend of the parent maybe no matter how nice the word it will be another choice for the rich situation taking away the cheap pill everywhere would cause far more trauma so it is simple But that's not what we saying, we not saying take away abortion. Im saying a " cheap pill ' sold at a supermarket without counseling is not the best long-term solution So its not simple "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, BruceVC said: But that's not what we saying, we not saying take away abortion. Im saying a " cheap pill ' sold at a supermarket without counseling is not the best long-term solution So its not simple no one can afford to wait for best long term solution might as well also wait for world peace and ending hunger taking away cheap pill everywhere is taking away abortion from vast majority of people does one have the option to not get counseling before they are allowed to get pill this seems extremely controlling no matter how much one insist on using nice word like counsel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, uuuhhii said: no one can afford to wait for best long term solution might as well also wait for world peace and ending hunger taking away cheap pill everywhere is taking away abortion from vast majority of people does one have the option to not get counseling before they are allowed to get pill this seems extremely controlling no matter how much one insist on using nice word like counsel No, its not the same as ending hunger or world peace because there are already institutions like Planned Parenting that are established and provide abortion services and counseling. We have similar ones in SA So we have solutions in countries that allow abortions unlike achieving world peace which is unlikely in our lifetimes And I doubt Planned Parenting would suggest a " cheap supermarket pill " without counseling but @Hurlshort can comment "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BruceVC said: No, its not the same as ending hunger or world peace because there are already institutions like Planned Parenting that are established and provide abortion services and counseling. We have similar ones in SA So we have solutions in countries that allow abortions unlike achieving world peace which is unlikely in our lifetimes And I doubt Planned Parenting would suggest a " cheap supermarket pill " without counseling but @Hurlshort can comment so it is locked behind counsel that would be nightmare that is like saying people have peace at place where there is no war 24 hour convenient store and pharmacy are almost everywhere with population big enough to support them limit access is again limitation only on the poor Edited November 9, 2023 by uuuhhii 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, BruceVC said: But that's not what we saying, we not saying take away abortion. Im saying a " cheap pill ' sold at a supermarket without counseling is not the best long-term solution Your argument still hinges on taking away some extremely important options from people who are already in a disadvantageous position. You coat it in nice language, but that's what it comes down to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) Yeah, I live in the US where we now* have a patchwork of laws regarding abortion and not everyone can afford to travel to a neighboring state (or if in the deep south cross several states) to get the care they're seeking. The best way to reduce abortions is to improve sexual education and provide free and super low cost contraception. The problem here is that a lot of places teach abstinence only or sometimes nothing at all. Because you know, if you don't teach your kids they won't figure it out. Shady story time. I think I've mentioned before that went to Teen Pregnancy High School. It was the school that all other schools would ship their pregnant students to because we had the best programs for teen moms because our rate was super high. Even before high school we had two girls get pregnant between elementary and middle school and a good handful more get pregnant in middle school. Anyways, so many stories I heard were simply because they didn't have access to contraception. Sex is going to happen no matter what so the best thing you can do is set kids up for success. * We always had a patchwork but it was technically legal everywhere even though some states made it a hard as they could get away with. Edited November 9, 2023 by ShadySands 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyrock Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) Last night's 3rd republican debate was a huge improvement over the 2nd one (not exactly a high bar to clear) largely on the shoulders of one man. It was worth suffering through parts of that just for Vivek Ramaswamy's GLORIOUS torching of RNC chair Ronna McDaniel. My dude had the big schlong energy last night, he came out swinging and was torching people left and right. Plus he has the most sane policies out of all the people that were on that stage, go figure. I don't know how genuine he is in his convictions, time will tell, I guess, but, if nothing else, he is entertaining. Mind you, not Ross Perot levels of entertaining. That guy was the greatest. ABSOLUTE. ****ING. LEGEND. Edited November 9, 2023 by Keyrock RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 As someone who lives in a state where abortion is banned and where travel is now being attempted to be banned, abortion shouldn't be the decision of anyone but the pregnant person and their doctor. Not the local, state, federal government or even the parents if applicable. 1 hour ago, ShadySands said: I've mentioned before that went to Teen Pregnancy High School. It was the school that all other schools would ship their pregnant students to because we had the best programs for teen moms because our rate was super high. Even before high school we had two girls get pregnant between elementary and middle school and a good handful more get pregnant in middle school. Anyways, so many stories I heard were simply because they didn't have access to contraception. Sex is going to happen no matter what so the best thing you can do is set kids up for success. For the school district I went to, my highschool was also the one with the most pregnant and parent students. So much so they made a daycare and a playground for the kids. Sex education was abstinence only and that absolutely did not work. 3 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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