Ukraine Conflict - Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

whats the point of pointing out the overlap other than non-chalantly grouping them togather? its like me stating that most A also do B. are you saying I am not implying that B is in same group as A?

 

and what are you even mean by your first sentence? How is it relevant to what I wrote? Sorry I am too dumb to get it I guess

Well A and B overlapping doesn't mean A means B, is sort of grouping them together but I'm not in Austria so it may be the case there.  But just is a bit much when I see either group complain that the other demonizes them and demands the other group come to them, is how people work I guess.

3 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Wonder how (if) they've solved the ammunition problem for the Leopard 1s. Pretty meh anyway, not only are they old but they have the exact same problem the Leo2s had in Syria- ready use ammo stored in the turret -->-->-->

and that was with no artillery to deal with, better armour, and vs mostly 70s era ATGMs instead of modern ones.

I'm sure that assclown Melnyk is raging because they're not getting 2A7s for free, heh.

[Chilloutman]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well A and B overlapping doesn't mean A means B, is sort of grouping them together but I'm not in Austria so it may be the case there.  But just is a bit much when I see either group complain that the other demonizes them and demands the other group come to them, is how people work I guess.

nice dodge of the question I asked I guess  anyway enough of derail

[Sarex]

Means that people who spew acid are usually the same people who cry when acid gets spewed on to them.

[HoonDing]

Pro-Russia = anti-vaxx = flat earther = Trumpist

[Gorth]

9 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

Pro-Russia = anti-vaxx = flat earther = Trumpist

Entirely anecdotal, but it sort of matches my observations of people around me in this side of the world too...

 

You forgot QAnon believer btw

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

bullcrap, its you who is putting people into your nice little boxes of good and evil based on you perception of those things (vax, trump, russia or otherwise) but you want to feel better about yourself, you want to be the 'better' one, you maybe even believe you are... yet your inner me slip on the bannana peel and show your true color as person judging others by those exact boxes you put people in instead of each individual opinion of those poeple on any particular matter. Kinda judging the book by the cover style

Buddy, noting an overlap isn't equating anything. If 75% of RPG players like vidya game romance, it doesn't mean that playing a RPG is the same thing as smashing some digital bootay after 3 conversations and you'd be dumb to think that. I don't know why you're this triggered and you should probably not get so worked up.

5 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Entirely anecdotal, but it sort of matches my observations of people around me in this side of the world too...

 

You forgot QAnon believer btw

They're also disproportionately Naruto fans, and watching Naruto is objectively the worst thing you can do.

[Chilloutman]

look, I didn't started mixing completely unrelated topics (vax, russia) togather. If you can't see that such statement is ment to invoke relation between these two I don't know what to tell you. Its like noting that 90 percent of bankers control most of the money and most ofthe bankers are jewis. Am I trying to imply something by it or not?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chilloutman

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

look, I didn't started mixing completely unrelated topics (vax, russia) togather. If you can't see that such statement is ment to invoke relation between these two I don't know what to tell you. Its like noting that 90 percent of bankers are jewis. Am I trying to imply something by it or not?

You're comparing apples and astrophysics. One of them is an observation of general correlation and the other is fantasy **** that's numerically impossible. If you want to make a comparison, it's that people who eat fast food 3+ times a week tend to be more overweight than the general population. Does that also get you booty blasted?

[Malcador]

55 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

nice dodge of the question I asked I guess  anyway enough of derail

Well wasn't intended as a dodge, just disagreed there was an implication.  But, now for an actual dodge, I should have said here as in majestic's words rather then generally - certainly can be situations where the equality is implied. 

Derailing is good, beats the usual crap in the Ukraine threads.

[Bartimaeus]

8 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

you'd be dumb to think that

See, the beauty of wording a right proper "this should be totally against the rules" insult is in theoretically allowing the person you're talking about an opportunity to back away and not immediately prove it as being true while obviously knowing that they never will. You can call someone all sorts of nasty things straight to their face as much as you like if you make it just ever so slightly vague. I never specifically said this person is a moron...just that anybody saying the things they happen to be saying would have to be one in order to be saying those things, and that's totally different! All I did was lay out the conditions for someone to qualify as a moron, and if they decide to post right after I do while matching the exact qualifying criteria, well, that's on them and not me. I didn't make them do that, it's not my fault!

Of course, it breaks down a bit when the conditions you lay out are very specific, like say...oh, I suppose I shouldn't.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Derailing is good, beats the usual crap in the Ukraine threads.

Sounds like Ukraine should get one of those weather warping balloons.

2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

See, the beauty of wording a right proper "this should be totally against the rules" insult is in theoretically allowing the person you're talking about an opportunity to back away and not immediately prove it as being true while obviously knowing that they never will. You can call someone all sorts of nasty things straight to their face as much as you like if you make it just ever so slightly vague. I never specifically said this person is a moron...just that anybody saying the things they happen to be saying would have to be one in order to be saying those things, and that's totally different! All I did was lay out the conditions for someone to qualify as a moron, and if they decide to post right after I do while matching the exact qualifying criteria, well, that's on them and not me. I didn't make them do that, it's not my fault!

Of course, it breaks down a bit when the conditions you lay out are very specific, like say...oh, I suppose I shouldn't.

Start being naughty.

[Malcador]

Apparently they sent a Tu-141 drone into Russia, instead of trying to hit a Croatian student residence

[Chilloutman]

21 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

You're comparing apples and astrophysics. One of them is an observation of general correlation and the other is fantasy **** that's numerically impossible. If you want to make a comparison, it's that people who eat fast food 3+ times a week tend to be more overweight than the general population. Does that also get you booty blasted?

wtf, but those are related topics - food and obesity. Mixing pro or against russia with people not wanting to get untested DNA altering vaccine 4 times a year are related how?

[Sarex]

Not wanting to get the vaccine doesn't make you one, for whatever reason you don't want to get it, it's when you start trying to make other people conform to your views (and the way in which you do that). I would think that this is not only applicable to vaccines.

[majestic]

Well, I thought it was relatively clear from the context, but apparently not: the current iteration of the Freedom Party has built itself around pandering to anti-vaxx and anti-sanction voters. The Pro-Russion demonstrations the Twatter thread talk about were organized by the same people who organized anti-vax rallies during the lockdowns and the brief time period we had a COVID-19 vaccination mandate (which was never enforced and later dropped), and it does stand to reason that if there would not be significant overlap between the two groups, such a pairing of ideologies would not lead to an increase in voters, let alone one in such numbers.

So, yes, while there certainly are anti-vaxxers who are more vegan-lifestyle greens, they're not represented in Freedom Party voters.

We could now continue to quibble about whether being against help for the Ukraine and against the sanctions automatically makes someone Pro-Russian, but that is a distinction that is morally hard to justify and callous at best when the party in question wants to immediately normalize relations with Russia and drop all aid to the Ukraine (and ideally send all the refugees back home). Casting your lot in with the Freedom Party means you at the very least accept their Pro-Russian/Pro-Putin stance, and their party leader's ivermectin ramblings, and his steadfast refusal to get vaccinated, and actively espouse it at worst*.

Still, the distinction is relevant for people who can no longer make ends meet, and yet another failing of our politicians that these people feel that there is simply nowhere else to turn. Those also represent a part of the voters in those potential 25+% - but by far the biggest block (20%) of voters are those who simply believe both, that vaccinations were made for whatever nefarious reason (most benignly to make money) and that going back to the pre-war status quo would fix all of our woes.

Also not sure since when calling a spade a spade has become an issue. Isn't that more for the 'radical left'?

That all said, here's another fun label for you to tease that bee in your bonnet:

(actual Nazi anti-vaxx propaganda)

Spoiler

Anti-vaxx movements are older than the Nazi movement though, that's really just to tease.

*Not that I believe for one second that this guy actually really believes the anti-vaxxer nonsense he is spewing, that's just something he tells the people because they want to hear it. Such a stand-up guy. Wonderful guy, that is. Everyone is against him. So sad.

[Chilloutman]

wow, its first time i heard that from this point of view. I never heard anyone who was against covid vaxx who waas stopping anyone else to do so. It was pretty much other way around that goverments and other vaxxed people were persecuting those unvaxxed  - this was related to Sarex

 

as for Austria issue - well is there party which is anti-vax and pro ukraine? Because this problem we have here in CZ as well...

 

and another note - when i talk about anti-vax i specifically mean covid only. Not those other nutjobs

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chilloutman

[majestic]

So wanna talk about flat urf next?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

14 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

wtf, but those are related topics - food and obesity. Mixing pro or against russia with people not wanting to get untested DNA altering vaccine 4 times a year are related how?

Well similarly to how obese people tend to eat more fast food than average, people who believe the vaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx will give them tiger aids are more likely to be into other conspiracy theories and be Putin fanbois. Now just like you have fat folks who don't eat fast food and skinny folks who eat it every day, you have anti-vaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxers who don't like Putin and Putin stans who get their microchip firmware updates. It's a correlation that seems to hold true in at least three different countries, no one is saying that not getting a vaccine means you personally cheer for every Ukrainian killed.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Just now, majestic said:

So wanna talk about flat urf next?

Look, I know we've had some fun here but let's not go too far. Flat earth should be left in the dustbin of history. Scientific evidence has confirmed the giant ball of ice theory.

[Chilloutman]

6 minutes ago, Space KP, Baby said:

Well similarly to how obese people tend to eat more fast food than average, people who believe the vaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx will give them tiger aids are more likely to be into other conspiracy theories and be Putin fanbois. 

well this was my initial point of you putting people into your box of wackos. Also not all people who didn\t want to get wax thought it was some space aliens conspiracy but just didn't want state to order them to get vaxed by untested vaccine. But you already showed into which box you put those people in so I guess my point stands. Don't want to get vaxxed? - flat earther

[Sarex]

I don't know about where you live, but here there were a ton of people making theories about vaccines and urging people to protest. As for the goverment forcing someone, I don't think that there was one country that actually forced its people to vaccinate. It did make life harder and more inconvenient for them, but the same could be applied to smokers, if your decision can affect someone negatively then it's you that needs make concessions.

[Chilloutman]

3 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I don't know about where you live, but here there were a ton of people making theories about vaccines and urging people to protest. As for the goverment forcing someone, I don't think that there was one country that actually forced its people to vaccinate. It did make life harder and more inconvenient for them, but the same could be applied to smokers, if your decision can affect someone negatively then it's you that needs make concessions.

again derail, but really. They even admited that vax will not stop transmit the dissease so they just make life hard for people who didn't wanted to take it. And if there were no outrage they would gladly made it mandatory - and in some casese they really tried hard to make it mandatory - eg/ Austria

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chilloutman

[majestic]

Hey, NASA regularily admits that the Urf is flat and stationary in their documents, and they're online for everyone to see. Just sayin'.

[SChin]

While I have no thoughts or opinions to voice here on any of the topics mentioned on this page, I will say, I very much enjoy popping in here every few weeks to read the information and opinions posted in this thread.

Thanks everyone  

[Sarex]

9 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

again derail, but really. They even admited that vax will not stop transmit the dissease so they just make life hard for people who didn't wanted to take it. And if there were no outrage they would gladly made it mandatory - and in some casese they really tried hard to make it mandatory - eg/ Austria

While it will not stop the transmission it will reduce the time window in which it could be transmitted. Either way % there is a lesser probability to transmit if you are vaccinated for a certain time period. I will not go in to how effective the vaccines turned out to be or if any of the decisions made were good, but at the point of mass panic that was happening they needed to take some actions.

Just now, SChin said:

While I have no thoughts or opinions to voice here on any of the topics mentioned on this page, I will say, I very much enjoy popping in here every few weeks to read the information and opinions posted in this thread.

Thanks everyone  

For a moment I though you posted in the wrong thread and sub-forum.