Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 4

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

Retrained my main character to get rid of some spells I never use. I'm a Court Poet 8/Thug 1/Seeker 1 now. Got rid of Haze of Dreams and "moved" Remove Fear to the Oracle book, since I don't use it that much and I have less uses there. Also "moved" Summon Monster I from Oracle to Skald to get a proper duration.

I didn't know I would have to remake everything in character creation too. That was annoying.

In PnP you get the option to retrain spell selection for spontaneous casters and I believe that Call of the Wild for Kingmaker managed to implement it. Probably wouldn't help with your issue, but it would be a nice touch given how some spells fall off late game.

afaik, any respec options (mod and ingame) are done in cc or the levelup screen. Tedious, but makes sense in a lot of ways.

 

Looking at the mods I've got, one of them makes Demon Rage work with Limitless Rage, so the (imo) most underwhelming mythic path just shot up quite a bit. Time to play around and see what happens.

EDIT: Looks like Shamans are missing their capstone ability....even though Oracles have them and they're pretty much interchangeable for the same Mysteries and Spirits. I guess I could add it in via ToyBox, but it seems like a damn big oversight.

Edited September 6, 2022 by KP From Another World

[InsaneCommander]

I traveled to the Commander's Court, which I renamed "Court of the Free Ale" and met a bunch of new friends. Aivu was jealous.

 

I've been playing this every day I can, but the new Kingdom management window kind of killed the hype. I just wanted to leave Drezen and do some quests, but I worry about the kingdom events.

- Can I start projects and go outside with my party? It seems to be the case for the Irabeth project, but what about those decrees and the other stuff?

- Can I fail at Kingdom Management?

- Where should I spend my cash, with new recruits or with buildings?

- I'm supposed to form a council. Does it mean assigning npcs to advisor positions, like in Kingmaker?

- Unrelated, but does Bismuth (the triceratops) go away? Is it safe to give him items?

 

Definitely the worst part of the game so far. Time to finally go watch the new JoJo episodes.

 

2 hours ago, KP From Another World said:

afaik, any respec options (mod and ingame) are done in cc or the levelup screen. Tedious, but makes sense in a lot of ways.

Well, better give all options to anyone who wants to correct/change any specific detail in their character.

[Gorth]

I only just finished Act II, so no idea what is up next. Tonight I'm going to finish inspecting "New Drezen", read mission log updates, as well as going over and reviewing most party members builds. The latter alone looks like a job for an entire evening

I'm actually quite happy with Sosiel (much to my surprise) on his angry boar at the moment, even though he still wields his old cold iron glaive. Nothing funny seems to drop for him there. I also haven't found any better greatswords than whatshisname the walking weapon I'm currently wielding. Visually nice with its frosty effects, but not overwhelming stat wise, I noticed one of the vendors now sell +3 greatswords, so I'm tempted to replace him. Alternatively change specs to focus on axes. Lots of better axes, including greataxes around. Regill on his raptor is probably the second hardest hitter in my team now, after my barbarian. Since I'm going to review his build later today, I gave him the mythic super charge ability when assigning points yesterday, just to try it out a few times and satisfy my curiosity. Seelah is doing... Ok on her horse. It's just that the horse seems to fail most saves and leaves her stuck in place, so she has to dismount and walk at slow pace towards the enemies. Succubus lady (because I can't for the death of me remember her name, much less spell it) seems to have same problem as Lann. Ranged just doesn't seem to do well when everyone and their pet is blurred, concealed, mirror imaged and displaced at the same time (or some such, it feels like that at times). So they miss 3 out of 3 shots most of time when not shooting low level support grunts. Even Camellia is doing better when she closes the distance to the enemies (and having cast a few preparatory spells boosting her survivability before combat. Not that there is always time for that, the way my chaotic guy charges through rooms at full speed

Edit: No idea what the last dwarf in my party is about. We met, said hello and haven't as much as killed a single rat in a basement together yet....

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I also haven't found any better greatswords than whatshisname the walking weapon I'm currently wielding.

the greatswords in wotr are not... not great that is, at least not for the most part. 

is two available to you at this point in the game worth considering, beyond the talking weapon, which does have the capacity to be upgraded and is arguable one o' the better weapons in the game, particular against a number o' foes which rely on high armour. chances are finnean is a solid late game weapon for at least one member o' your party regardless o' what your main character decides to use.

other greatswords:

there is an overland map called the ruins of ashberry hamlet, or something similar. we won't spoil but there is an alright greatsword reward. technically the encounter were available pre drezen assault, or at least it were. is a noteworthy difficult encounter. 

the wintersun location will also yield a greatsword... maybe. depending on how you complete wintersun, you should be able to access a vendor who will then sell you arguably one o' the best not-finnean greatswords in the base game. is possible to miss the wintersun greatsword, which is a shame if you is a greatsword haver and you don't wanna indulge spoilers.

there is another act iii greatsword which is... odd. has variable bonuses, some o' which is kinda unique and for specific builds it could be the best greatsword in the game, particular if you are doing a gish (fighter/mage) kinda build. 

more unsolicited advice, 'cause is ez to overlook and failure to do so may bork your act iii crusade endeavors,

Spoiler

we suggest returning to the loquacious kobold and having a conversation.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

@Gromnir I'll keep an eye out for those locations tonight, when I get back to the game

As for the advice, dang it, now you mention it, that was a weird one (it made me smile at the time). Somehow it completely slipped my mind after Drezen. Happy to take that advice.

[Gromnir]

@Gorth

aside: 

if you are thinking o' switching weapons from greatsword to something else, we would recommend other higher crit range weapons, particular as you decided 'pon the trickster mythic, yes? the wintersun sword is a viable endgame weapon, but your other greatsword options is near non-existent.

if you don't wanna go the exotic weapon route, falchion is a good choice as there is a few extreme useful falchion's in the game. wilcer garms (sp?) sells jinx, a +2 cold iron falchion with an excellent secondary property which involves a damage increase if the target is under the effect o' a hex. underrated weapon. there is also a holy weapon falchion potential available in act iii.

you will find a few nice bardiche and glaives in the game as well.

exotics? munchkin builds gravitate to fauchards and there is multiple options which is ez to find, including a drezen merchant selling one o' the two best fauchard's. there is powerful wotr scythes, but am admitting we can't bring our self to go the scythe route 'cause is such an utter impractical weapon.

great axes? there are a few greataxes and earthbreakers which make it worth considering 'em in spite o' the typical craptacular crit range. in fact, there is a greataxe available in act iii which provides a crit range o' 18-20, so your trickster barbarian should have no complaints.

all our suggestions is 2h weapons.

but again, once you acquire the wintersun greatsword, is only one more option in the base game which maybe deserves a second glance other than finnean. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps greybor is essential for an act iii quest which we believe is impossible to miss. the title o' the companion quest makes obvious why he is in your party even if you forget the details. talk to the dwarf in the half measure tavern soonish.

btw, slayer is a great base class and greybor only has one or two headscratcher feats in his ten levels o' progression, so am calling that a win from our pov. dwarven war axes suck in wotr. personal recommendation: switch to some other dual wield weapon and go full slayer progression w/o any multi-class dips. is just too late to pick up an animal companion, so am thinking greybor is not in your party much save essential quests as he is preternatural slow with his dwarven legs and medium armour. nevertheless, is relative ez to build a useful greybor for those quests you need him. 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Gromnir

[MrBrown]

4 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

I've been playing this every day I can, but the new Kingdom management window kind of killed the hype. I just wanted to leave Drezen and do some quests, but I worry about the kingdom events.

- Can I start projects and go outside with my party? It seems to be the case for the Irabeth project, but what about those decrees and the other stuff?

- Can I fail at Kingdom Management?

- Where should I spend my cash, with new recruits or with buildings?

- I'm supposed to form a council. Does it mean assigning npcs to advisor positions, like in Kingmaker?

- Unrelated, but does Bismuth (the triceratops) go away? Is it safe to give him items?

- Yes. There's no time limits, AFAIK, things only change between acts/chapters.

- Only by the demons re-conquering Drezden.

- Recruits. Buildings mostly just boost your recruiting, after all. Eventually you'll have enough money for everything, don't worry.

- Nope, they're pre-selected. You just get to make a choice every time you level up one of the stats, similarly to Kingmaker.

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, MrBrown said:

 

- Recruits. 

 

disagree.... and kinda reversed as to importance. your act v kingdom management is much easier if you got all the premium buildings already constructed in drezen. if you build archery ranges and stables in every available outpost/bastion, that is gonna help too. no spoilers, but a player is gonna be more than a little disappointed if they build a sooper army in act iii. a single well-balanced level 10 army is more than enough to beat all comers. as noted, buildings allow for greater recruits numbers, but they also enhance units making 'em units more powerful, as well as increasing infirmary size and other army management factors. a particular building will even increase unit initiative through morale boosts, which is huge. 

develop one o' the mage generals. also, ranged is devastating, so make sure to recruit ranged and build archery ranges. marksmen were nerfed but they nevertheless remain mighty powerful.  the three recruitable types we near invariably use is marksmen, hedge knights and champions... and the truth is champions become unnecessary later in the game, but early game is when army stuff may be more difficult. assassins is an upgradable unit and they is quite useful, but am finding we don't genuine need 'em by the time we got large numbers o' archers and cavalry, but assassins count as spell casters, so don't skimp on spellcaster lodges if you want assassins. for mercs, am finding hell knights is worth recruiting and so too is clerics. sorcerers is also a good choice. regardless, immediate discontinue investing in recruits and mercs once you have a strongish level 10 army. instead construct buildings and stockpile resources.

following includes minor spoilers:

@InsaneCommander is going azata, yes? unless has been nerfed, you eventual get access to a crusade spell which heals your army and damages foes at the end o' a turn. with a decent mage, this power will wipe screens o' foes. 

further rando advice:

build a teleportation circle in drezen asap.

alchemist laboratories may be built multiple times and if you go with a mage general, he/she will be doing great individual damage and healing. the general needs energy to do so... also look for crusade projects which potential increase general power. energy allows your general to cast spells and take actions more often. increase power boosts the damage o' your offensive abilities as well as making your heals more effective.

in act iii you are gonna need master of maneuver I and II at the very least. don't skip on those general abilities when they become available. 

don't skimp when there is options to increase combat morale. your army morale caps, but combat morale may push beyond the cap and you may boost rather significant if you acquire all such options. high combat morale means your units have an increasing chance to attack 2x, up to 100% which is indeed possible. if crusade projects or choices become available which provide a bonus to combat morale, is a good idea to take 'em.

is other stuff for army management, but is nowhere near as fragile and breakable as kingmaker kingdom management, which were frustration-level terrible and had hidden clocks running behind the scenes. 

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

On 9/5/2022 at 7:46 AM, KP From Another World said:

am now going to spend time testing out character concepts. Probably more time than I'll actually play the game.

Story of my life. I feel like I play up to chapter 2 then start over. I guess I could just fully respec with Toybox at the beginning of chapter 2 but for some reason I just restart the game.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

59 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Story of my life. I feel like I play up to chapter 2 then start over. I guess I could just fully respec with Toybox at the beginning of chapter 2 but for some reason I just restart the game.

I don't even get out of the cave, pretty much I test to make sure the build actually works and then file it away for a future playthrough.

I don't want to do a full respec because I want the experience of playing through the game as the concept. Respecing bad feats and spells is one thing, but I don't want to change (base) class or race.

[Gromnir]

56 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Story of my life. I feel like I play up to chapter 2 then start over. I guess I could just fully respec with Toybox at the beginning of chapter 2 but for some reason I just restart the game.

we got multiple saves from immediate preceding the mythic path choice near the end o' act ii. we don't even genuine need toybox or the like 'cause ordinary respec means after am done with act ii, am able to customize our character howsoever we wish, recognizing in-game respec won't change our mythic path, so we gotta play the bit o' drezen post mythic to get to respec w/o toybox.

...

nevertheless, have played act i and act ii complete, multiple times, for no particular good reason. sure, a few things broken in the early releases were fixed and we wanted to see such changes, but the literal many hours o' gameplay invested to see such minor changes is unreasonable. 

when the enhanced edition is released, is unlikely we use our immediate pre-mythic saves and am near certain we begin act i, scene 1. 

unnecessarily replay act i and ii o' a game demanding dozens o' hours to complete is perhaps a bit less kewl than frank miller's leonidas and we can't even claim our stoopid is part o' some larger strategy.

got nothing.

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I was looking around in Toybox for bite attacks and it seems like several Shifter abilities have entries in the game. At first I thought it was for the Feral Champion or a mod, but it looks like they go beyond what FC gets. I wonder if this means Shifter is going to be introduced in the EE or future DLC?

Edited September 6, 2022 by KP From Another World

[MrBrown]

4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the three recruitable types we near invariably use is marksmen, hedge knights and champions... and the truth is champions become unnecessary later in the game, but early game is when army stuff may be more difficult.

In the previous patch, my Champions were stuck at AC 10... which made them die to any attack. Hopefully they've fixed with the new patch.

Edited September 6, 2022 by MrBrown

[Gromnir]

37 minutes ago, MrBrown said:

In the previous patch, my Champions were stuck at AC 10... which made them die to any attack. Hopefully they've fixed with the new patch.

should still be 10. make 'em sooper durable as well as extreme cheap and capable o' high damage would be more than a little unfair. champions are relative cheap and they have the crit strike ability, but they are indeed glass cannons. is ez to purchase enough o' them in act iii to one-hit pretty much anything and you may acquire so many that is near impossible to wipe out their unit-- just heal 'em before combat ends. if you are concerned 'bout numbers, then irabeth reinforcements is a solution. for 7k gold, irabeth will bolster units which become champions and marksman... the clerics remain clerics, but hoping they show up random as mercs makes early purchase a sensible move. your cavalry move fastest o' the melee units (other than assassins) so hellknights is your best early tanks. tactics to make champions useful is no different than any other game with melee glass cannons. get behind the tank and then explode stuff from relative safety.

in act v champions become a non factor, but so too does army management in general... at least if you got a bunch o' ranged units and a mage general.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

I think hellknights were carrying the fight for me in the first act... the basic footmen and the archer spent more time being resurrected and soaking up fire than dishing out any damage (except the archers getting the first salvo in). Just like HoM&M, the knights do considerably more damage the longer the travel distance before they hit (a knightly charge I suppose), making for some rather amusing encircling movements, when riding circles around already engaged enemy units before hitting them.

 

Edit: Now trying to work out what to do on the crusade screen, beginning act iii. There is a little map where I can build buildings, lots of decisions pending and a lot to read through in the mission log. Some of the little incidents were quite amusing though. Diplomacy? What is it for?

[ShadySands]

Easiest, cheesiest war winning strategy

1. Skip a bunch of time

2. Recruit a bunch of archers

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Diplomacy? What is it for?

creating overpowered weapons and gear.

...

am not kidding.

is possible that the main purpose o' diplomacy in wotr = weapon manufacture is some kinda too-subtle-for-Gromnir russian joke we ain't getting, but there you go. diplomacy crusade relic restoration events will include the following SPOILER list we did not check for accuracy:

 

Spoiler

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2608364853

 

is a large number o' possibilities, and is ez to miss a few game-changers. if @InsaneCommander and @Gorthis interested in Gromnir's opinion as to what is a few o' the most silly overpowered items, we will highlight a few. if you would rather go with rule o' kewl, free o' taint o' some self appointed know-it-all and his thumbs up v. down or scale-from-one-to-ten silliness, that works too.

regardless, and unless has changed recent, it will not be difficult to max your diplomacy crusade stat quicker than any o' the others. again, am not sure if such a clear difference 'tween diplomacy and the other stats is one o' those russian jokes Gromnir is incapable o' groking. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 7, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

@Gromnir I often go with "rule o' kewl" (heck, it's why my first character was inspired entirely by one of the portrait pictures, including weapon choice), but I'm also beset by a pathological curiosity, so would love to hear a few highlights. If just to get an idea of what exists (without spoiling too much by digging through some wiki page, which I presume exists). Stuff that I suppose I may discover some of, given enough time and play throughs, but alas, the curiosity that more than once landed me in hospital since childhood is ever present

[xzar_monty]

@Gorth: Would love to hear your thoughts on the writing in WotR, so far.

I returned to the game after several months' pause (family responsibilities and all), I'm somewhere in Chapter 5, at level 20, and I find the game to be quite a slog at this point: hordes of enemies coming my way, not proving much of a challenge (on Core difficulty) but not providing much substance or excitement, either. I may finish the game just to see how it all ends, but boy the writing is silly. Not one of these characters has more depth than a cardboard cutout, and not one of the narrative turns has been a surprise. (Like, there's one character whose alignment remains undetectable for quite some time. Hmm... I wonder what that means. Does that person turn out to be good, neutral or evil? I'm pretty sure essentially 100% of the players will know that before it happens. And so on.)

[Gorth]

24 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@Gorth: Would love to hear your thoughts on the writing in WotR, so far.

I returned to the game after several months' pause (family responsibilities and all), I'm somewhere in Chapter 5, at level 20, and I find the game to be quite a slog at this point: hordes of enemies coming my way, not proving much of a challenge (on Core difficulty) but not providing much substance or excitement, either. I may finish the game just to see how it all ends, but boy the writing is silly. Not one of these characters has more depth than a cardboard cutout, and not one of the narrative turns has been a surprise. (Like, there's one character whose alignment remains undetectable for quite some time. Hmm... I wonder what that means. Does that person turn out to be good, neutral or evil? I'm pretty sure essentially 100% of the players will know that before it happens. And so on.)

I still have a long way to go before I get to chapter 5. I'm only at the very beginning at chapter 3, haven't even left Drezen with my party yet, trying to figure out what the 3 councils do (the logistics council, the diplomatic council and the secret council... with their door inside the closet in my bed room. I wondered why they didn't just place the entrance in a rabbit hole under my bed

Most of the writing I would call "Ok". Doesn't win any prizes, but is also not cringe worthy and I do more often than not actually read the books and notes I find (I suspect I'm so going to skip that part in my next game, but I do find them interesting enough to give at least one read). I do appreciate the odd humour in some of the writing. As for character writing... I'm no expert and I only just found the last two party members (there may be more, but the fallen succubus and Greybor the dwarven assassin were the last additions). Of the ones I spent time with, most are again Ok. Nothing that makes me think it's bad. Video game characters are a bit tricky to give personality I've understood. Daeran is Norman Bates (in that his mother was important to him, not necessarily cruel to him) and Camellia (the girl with the masked alignment) grew up in a fancy home and her own children's room was full of blood stains and torture implements, so I suspect she has some exotic hobbies, hence the "unimportant" amulet that masks her true alignment (I'm guessing something like chaotic evil with a penchant for tearing off the wings of fairies). For me, the two interesting ones so far were Regill as the over the top practical incarnation from PS:T and Ember, because she reminds (unfortunately) of a girl I knew in real life many years ago (she wasn't burned at the stake by a mob, but she got raped repeatedly by her father growing up, which leaves a similar kind of scars on the soul and her attitude is the spitting image of said girl, a very uncanny kind of recognition)

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, Gorth said:

@Gromnir I often go with "rule o' kewl" (heck, it's why my first character was inspired entirely by one of the portrait pictures, including weapon choice), but I'm also beset by a pathological curiosity, so would love to hear a few highlights. If just to get an idea of what exists (without spoiling too much by digging through some wiki page, which I presume exists). Stuff that I suppose I may discover some of, given enough time and play throughs, but alas, the curiosity that more than once landed me in hospital since childhood is ever present

a few items we have already mentioned previous, but at least one has been patched and works different as 'o 9/7/2022

Spoiler

mallander's insult now must be equipped to imbue it's properties, which means you may only impart the significant benefits to one other additional one-handed weapon. for example, you may put mallander's insult in a dual wield configuration with radiance for seelah, activate the unholy damage boost, and then replace the short sword with a shield and for the next ten minutes, seelah's holy avenger will do significant UNholy damage.

as mentioned previous, the most common use o' the crest of the fallen knight relic is as a belt for blasters, 'cause you add 2d6 unholy damage to all fire spells and become immune to fire... albeit while suffering a penalty when taking holy or cold damage. this is a major boost for somebody such as ember assuming you have her kitted to spam fire damage. even so, we mention the short sword 'cause the property is easily overlooked.

btw, radiance does become a +6 holy avenger.

the fate of the wicked dope relic when upgraded to a quarterstaff will result in you having the possibility o' choosing plague of madness, a weapon which on every third casting o' a spell will maximize and empower the spell. for a blaster who tends to cast the same spell over and over again, this is huge. is also a major boost for healers or oddly enough, anybody who casts a small number o' spells. 

the stone of the ghostly pathways ring provides the following:

 "You can activate this ring to create an almost transparent silver lining that connects all party members in a 30 feet area. While in this state you share an unbreakable bond, while under this effect all members get an additional attack of opportunity per round. If an attack of opportunity was a critical hit, the enemy is staggered. If one of the party members falls unconscious, a giant spider is summoned to fight alongside you for 3 rounds."

the padded armour resulting from the altar of the first retriever, the web strider option, adds +2 to dex, but it is a +2 morale boost and not enhancement, so is gonna stack with  other boosts. 

 

the stuff we mention isn't necessarily the objective best items, but they are powerful and their usefulness is ez overlooked. 

keep in mind, am not mentioning the act v relics... and a few o' those is kinda over-the-top on the power scale, but most is not subtle or having particular hidden benefits.

HA! Good Fun!

[xzar_monty]

11 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

keep in mind, am not mentioning the act v relics... and a few o' those is kinda over-the-top on the power scale, but most is not subtle or having particular hidden benefits.

Since you clearly know quite a lot about the game, definitely a lot more than I do, would you agree with this experience of mine: in Act V you start to seriously suffer from a phenomenon easily described as "I have tons of money but there's nothing worth buying"? Pretty much everything that I see anyone selling is like, d'oh. I already have better stuff in use.

[ShadySands]

If you like OP items, I mean if you really like OP items, then you got to go down to DLC3

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

19 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Since you clearly know quite a lot about the game, definitely a lot more than I do, would you agree with this experience of mine: in Act V you start to seriously suffer from a phenomenon easily described as "I have tons of money but there's nothing worth buying"? Pretty much everything that I see anyone selling is like, d'oh. I already have better stuff in use.

two observations:

1) people who visit these kinda boards tend to be completionists

2) the skeleton merchant is an exception to your observation

if you go through wotr w/o doing every quest, looting every barrel and stripping every corpse of every piece o' junk and copper ring, then is a fair chance you won't be rich and an equal good chance you won't find a decent weapon to fit your character concept. we mentioned to @Gorth how is literal only two endgame greatswords, and both is available via vendors... and one o' the vendors is only a possibility if you do a quest a certain way. a not completionist is gonna have far less gold and is also more likely to need buy at least a couple pieces o' equipment to have a viable endgame build. us board frequenters forget many wotr players is gonna be casual players and is ez to ignore just how different the game plays for sane people unwilling to spend many dozens o' hours on a crpg.

also, the skeleton merchant has a few items which is best-in-slot. unfortunate, am having had a run during which he literal never appeared in act v, and another where he only appeared once. given how much bigger is the map in act v compared to act iii, am s'posing it should come as no shock that you never happen to be in the same place as the hidden merchant, particular as much o' your travel is likely gonna happen via teleportation circles as 'posed to overland travel, but still feels wrong. 

HA! Good Fun!

[uuuhhii]

did all the act 5 relic work now

it used to be only one pick up at act 4 are actually working