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[Mamoulian War]

The good example of small scale openworld is also the Yakuza series. You can do pretty anything you like in almost any order, but you are always very close to the story and it does not take you 15 minutes to get where you want. On the other hand, Fallout 3 became to me one of the most boring games I have ever played. The only fun were the DLCs, which were "closed-world". But that made them very balanced and fast pacing compared to everything else in the vanilla game

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

I think it was posted here somewhere, but this sums up what sucks about OW game design pretty good.

 

 

, that video is really funny. I see the point 

 

51 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Open-world is this concept that sounds good but rarely turns out interesting. If you let players to do anything at any point and go anywhere it's difficult to create something worth doing or experiencing - story wise you can't create a good one, as you have little control over story progression - a good story has to have arcs and developement and how do you create that stuff, if everyplayer can experience story in a different order (see Deadfire)? Gameplay wise - it's all about building complexity. You can't do that if you have no control over content. There is a reason, I think, why open-world games tend to have a depth of a puddle. And if you have progression system: how do you make sure that no matter where player goes the content will be sufficiently easy/challenging? And as stunning as open-world can be for first couple hours the spell quickly wanes as we realise how static the world is, how repetitive activities are, and one just wishes he could get to interesting stuff quicker. For example I prefered Metroidvenia like, developing world of Arkham Asylum over either of it's "open world" sequels, which felt more artificial and more static to me. 

So I like games which make you FEEL like you can go anywhere, but generally not open world - in that regard first half Dark Souls1 was all that it needed to be. There are open world games that I did enjoy: Witcher3, Gothic1&2, New Vegas. I do feel that while set in the open world, those games are more linear in nature, with open world being "a stage" rather then game itself. And there are sandbox games like Mount&Blade, but I think their nature is a bit different then your ususal Open World. There are also Metroidvanias - I tend to like those. 

So in case of Elden Ring, I am asking myself: what positive thing will be added to Dark Souls formula by going open world? Nothing comes to mind as of now, but I was sceptical about WItcher3 and it turned out to be the best in the series. 

Good points raised Wormie, you make a good argument

But as you mentioned their are exceptions like W3 , ELEX and the Gothic series 

[Keyrock]

I'll always take quality over quantity. Look at Portal, that game is only about 3 hours long, but those are 3 GLORIOUS hours. I'll take that over 40 hours of mediocrity any day. The same goes for open worlds. Ryu Ga Gotoku's open worlds are some of the smallest out there, but they can take the Pepsi challenge with any giant open wotld because they are filled to the brim with atmosphere and have fun and engaging activities and stories around every corner. That's not to say that you can't make a giant open world fun and engaging, we've seen it done, but more often than not you wind up with a lot of ctrl+c & ctrl+v throw away content when there is 1000 square kilometers of open world to fill.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Keyrock

[Keyrock]

 

 

[LadyCrimson]

*looks up Elden Scrolls*

...hmm, Dark-Souls is often referenced. Ugh (for me). But it looks nice. Maybe there will be a wemod or other cheats.
...if it is "Dark Souls like" then it would feel odd if it's too open world ala Skyrim, I'd agree. That said, it could be more akin to Tales of Arise (except somewhat more expansive so you can showcase leaping off cliffs with a horse) ... where areas feel open world-ish while you're in them, but is still very linear (a lot of that scenery looks like inaccessible backdrop, tbh) with a lot of loading screens and separated areas etc.

...on Steam's page: the game supports a unique asynchronous online element that allows you to feel the presence of others.
...Death Stranding like? You'll see signs of others horses or trails or camping or who knows what? Will it help you out in any way like someone can leave small gifts for other players to find/use, or just there visually?

[the_dog_days]

8 hours ago, Keyrock said:

I'll always take quality over quantity.

With the exception of love making, I agree.

[Wormerine]

11 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

...on Steam's page: the game supports a unique asynchronous online element that allows you to feel the presence of others.
...Death Stranding like? You'll see signs of others horses or trails or camping or who knows what? Will it help you out in any way like someone can leave small gifts for other players to find/use, or just there visually?

I would assume something Dark Souls like (I am pretty sure that's the game that invented it to begin with) - other player ghosts, bloodstains, left messages pointing to secrets or screwing with you.

If I remember well Elden Ring will have traditional DS pvp as well - though the last time they mentioned it would be only online for those who play coop. Horse would be disabled. Kinda werid way of doing it - I though DS already had a pretty good system for opting in and out of multiplayer. 

[LadyCrimson]

@Wormerine  Ah, ok.  I've never bought/played Dark Souls. Watching videos made me know it wasn't my thing. Didn't even know it had MP.

More importantly - will Elden Scrolls have a photo mode? 

[Wormerine]

“Josh is still make the game he said was making“.

sounds a bit like “The Name of the Rose: the RPG”

Edited November 6, 2021 by Wormerine

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Wormerine said:

“Josh is still make the game he said was making“.

sounds a bit like “The Name of the Rose: the RPG”

Firstly excellent interview, I dont know who either of those guys was but I think I do recognize the interviewer? They were both very professional, interesting  and well informed. The guest had a convincing way of making points and explaining things objectively and in a positive way so kudos to him. And their was no SJWism which I always appreciate nowadays 

Now the actual new game, its a murder mystery set in 16th century  Europe driven by dialogue and as they mentioned probably similar to Disco. I am fine with that because I played Disco but didnt finish it after about 25 hours because its an adventure game and I only seem to like and complete fantasy or real horror adventure games.

So for me I will definitely buy it on PC if its linked to fantasy like Quest for Glory, Kings Quest or linked to Dracula type supernatural genre but I am not sure its going to be anything like that ?

 

 

[Sarex]

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-publishes-list-of-incompatible-games-with-alder-lake-(due-to-drm).html

[Wormerine]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So for me I will definitely buy it on PC if its linked to fantasy 

Matty is content creation, the guest as I understand it is a "leaker" with some inside knowledge. 

 As I understand it is historical setting - no alternative fantasy stuff.

[kanisatha]

15 hours ago, Wormerine said:

“Josh is still make the game he said was making“.

sounds a bit like “The Name of the Rose: the RPG”

This game definitely interests me. Murder-mystery with no combat? Love it. Thanks for posting @Wormerine

[Lexx]

I wonder if Obsidian can write a game like Disco Elysium without it feeling formulaic.

[Keyrock]

38 minutes ago, Lexx said:

I wonder if Obsidian can write a game like Disco Elysium without it feeling formulaic.

I would say that Obsidian is certainly capable of such a thing, but I don't know if at this stage they could do it. Okay, that sounds like I'm contradicting myself, let me explain. Obsidian has the writing chops to make a game like that, but they were a fairly high profile Microsoft signing so now they have the pressure of being one of Microsoft's star studios.

Why has Playstation repeatedly bested XBOX in sales? 1st party games. As much as I hate the idea of exclusives, they sell systems. This is why Microsoft went on a spending spree acquiring studios to make games for them.

Now, I'd love to think that Microsoft would take a hands off approach with Obsidian. "Hey folks, that sounds like a great idea, here's your funding, we'll leave you to it. You know what you're doing." Let's be real here. If this were a smaller crowdfunded or self-funded game, I could see it. However, with being a high profile Microsoft studio, there are expectations. Disco Elysium is a niche game. It's a great and successful niche game, but niche nonetheless. I can't help but fear that stuff will be shoehorned into the game to make it appeal to a broader audience. I hope I'm wrong.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Keyrock

[Wormerine]

11 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

Obsidian has the writing chops to make a game like that, but they were a fairly high profile Microsoft signing so now they have the pressure of being one of Microsoft's star studios.

We will see how things will develop, but according to all the reports at this point Microsoft strategies is said to be: let developers do their own thing. Game Pass tends to pop up more often then XBOX itself - and as subscription service, I think it will benefit from both mainstream big titles, and various small curiosities. 

In case of Obsidian they do have big projects (Outer Worlds2, Avowed), so it is quite possible they would allow for a small personal project. With a team as small as John Sawyer project it is not going to be a God of War console seller anyway.

[Keyrock]

1 hour ago, Wormerine said:

We will see how things will develop, but according to all the reports at this point Microsoft strategies is said to be: let developers do their own thing. Game Pass tends to pop up more often then XBOX itself - and as subscription service, I think it will benefit from both mainstream big titles, and various small curiosities. 

In case of Obsidian they do have big projects (Outer Worlds2, Avowed), so it is quite possible they would allow for a small personal project. With a team as small as John Sawyer project it is not going to be a God of War console seller anyway.

I sincerely hope you are right. I will be delighted to be wrong if that turns out to be the case, but I can't fight my own cynicism.

[HoonDing]

"Now the actual new game, its a murder mystery set in 16th century  Europe driven by dialogue and as they mentioned probably similar to Disco"

 

boring

 

[LadyCrimson]

I ... don't know how to feel about anything Borderlands anymore. At first I thought it was going to be another BL3 DLC, but apparently it's a "full priced" game. And will be Epic exclusive at first, but no one knows for how long. Could be only a month, could be six months. At any rate ... taking a major fan favorite DLC and turning into a game (vs. an official "BL4") that likely uses the same engine/mechanics as BL3 and (assuming) charging 60 for it feels ... kinda oogey. Not to mention lack of creativity. Being able to "multi-class" by mixing up 6 skill trees on one chr. might be interesting for a looter, but it better be full-price game length, at least. Tiny Tiny was a great DLC but I'm not sure how well it'd stretch out to full-game. Hm. I think on my own I wouldn't buy it until on deep sale but I'm sure hubby will get bored next summer and "make" me play it so we'll see.     I will say tho, that if this ends up boring or company-annoying me in the long run as much as BL3 did, I'm done with this franchise. Hubby can continue to play it alone, if he wants.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, HoonDing said:

"Now the actual new game, its a murder mystery set in 16th century  Europe driven by dialogue and as they mentioned probably similar to Disco"

 

boring

 

That is exactly what happened to me when I played Disco...I got bored and stopped 

But I think that was more the setting, not the genre. I am still playing Quest for Glory 4 and that is an adventure game?

 

[Keyrock]

30 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But I think that was more the setting, not the genre. I am still playing Quest for Glory 4 and that is an adventure game?

 

It's an adventure game & RPG hybrid. The second QFG is still my favorite in the series, largely due to the Arabian Nights setting.

[BruceVC]

48 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

It's an adventure game & RPG hybrid. The second QFG is still my favorite in the series, largely due to the Arabian Nights setting.

True as  you have combat and skills progression in QFG so it is a hybrid

But I have completed other true adventure games and didnt get bored like I did with Disco, for example Dracula Origin

https://www.gog.com/game/dracula_origin?utm_medium=editorial&utm_source=gogcom&utm_campaign=20211102_vampire_goged&utm_term=EN

So for me I think the setting and type of adventure game matters 

[Keyrock]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

True as  you have combat and skills progression in QFG so it is a hybrid

But I have completed other true adventure games and didnt get bored like I did with Disco, for example Dracula Origin

https://www.gog.com/game/dracula_origin?utm_medium=editorial&utm_source=gogcom&utm_campaign=20211102_vampire_goged&utm_term=EN

So for me I think the setting and type of adventure game matters 

I was hesitant to call it a point & click adventure (& RPG hybrid), since Sierra On-Line (later just Sierra) games started out using a text parser interface, so point & click adventure is a misnomer. Later they changed to a mouse-driven point & click interface. I want to say QFG4 was p&c, but it's been so long that I can't say for sure.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Keyrock said:

I was hesitant to call it a point & click adventure (& RPG hybrid), since Sierra On-Line (later just Sierra) games started out using a text parser interface, so point & click adventure is a misnomer. Later they changed to a mouse-driven point & click interface. I want to say QFG4 was p&c, but it's been so long that I can't say for sure.

QFG4 is definitely a point and click from its inception. I do remember the first time I ever play a PC  game at the end of Apartheid and it was in 1988/89 and it was all the early Sierra games like KQ1 and HQ1 and you had to type your commands, they werent point and click 

It was such fun but understanding the mechanics was very difficult in the beginning,  especially the actual typing and effective commands. I remember we didnt understand " short and defined " commands so we would type " talk to the witch about the princess " and the game would say error ...dont understand word  " about "

We realized later on the correct command is simply " talk\ witch\ princess " or something similar 

[BruceVC]

https://www.gog.com/forum/quest_for_glory_series/qfg4_ashlancers_enhanced_patch

You guys are not going to believe this but an enhanced edition patch has just been released for QFG4...and I didnt know about it when I started on the original 2 weeks ago 

But its not a big deal because I learnt to start enjoying the original and this is all part of my journey to start enjoying all older RPG and not just play RPG that are visually pleasing