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Coronavirus 666: The Number of the Delta Variant (but in an entirely scientific context)


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4 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I wouldnt say its pointless because I would still have <some resistance> to getting seriously ill. But thats neither here nor there, Im not considered "high risk" so I feel like I dont have to jump at the booster shot. Whenever the next new variant comes about then Ill reevaluate it.

Its been DECADES since Ive gone to a strip club and I honestly cant remember the last time I went to a bar, but I do freely hang out with my friends.

Yes I agree getting fully vaccinated is definitely not pointless but your anti-bodies dont last forever 

So in other words the important objective of not getting seriously ill is the main reason we take vaccines because you get anti-bodies from the vaccine which fight the virus if you exposed and this helps prevent severe sickness from the virus

But think about what that means, if after 6-8 months your vaccine anti-bodies are gone then if you are exposed to the virus you can still get very sick which is what you  wanted to avoid in the first place?

I am not sure I am making sense and I do agree you are at low risk of the " normal " exposure that people like me are exposed to when we go  to bars but here is a question, can you trust your friends are not socializing like you?

Look at Shady and Majestic, they didnt get the virus from partying. They got  it from family and it was no fault of theirs?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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50 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But think about what that means, if after 6-8 months your vaccine anti-bodies are gone then if you are exposed to the virus you can still get very sick which is what you  wanted to avoid in the first place?

I am not sure I am making sense and I do agree you are at low risk of the " normal " exposure that people like me are exposed to when we go  to bars but here is a question, can you trust your friends are not socializing like you?

Look at Shady and Majestic, they didnt get the virus from partying. They got  it from family and it was no fault of theirs?

What I mean is, since Ive already been vaccinated, even if I do catch Covid, I shouldnt get deathly ill. Good enough. But I guess I am kinda rolling the dice. Two of the people I hang out with are unvaccinated (and are utterly convinced they dont need it).

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am having the luxury o' being able to choose to not "hang out" with abject stoopid people. unfortunate, as @ShadySands is no doubt painful aware, a caveat to the aforementioned is the family exception. sure, we could still make a hard choice regarding obtuse family members, and we has in fact done so in some situations, but is a different calculus when dealing with family. on the positive side (kinda sorta), given a few health issues we got which make us more susceptible to covid, the recognition by all our relatives that our family has a few monstrous stoopid members is providing us with a good excuse for not attending family gatherings we otherwise wish to avoid, but is not a guaranteed get out of jail free card.  am told aunt ________ is 86 and this may be the last holiday season she will have a chance to be with the entire family. *groan* is true, but two years ago she were 84 and same leverage were used to emotional blackmail us into doing the family holiday bit. 

still haven't gotten our covid booster. should be receiving it in the next week or so. am nevertheless serious considering purposeful delay so we got an excuse to opt out o' this season's family holiday gatherings. perhaps we won't be able to get our booster until mid january?

HA! Good Fun! 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am having the luxury o' being able to choose to not "hang out" with abject stoopid people. unfortunate, as @ShadySands is no doubt painful aware, a caveat to the aforementioned is the family exception. sure, we could still make a hard choice regarding obtuse family members, and we has in fact done so in some situations, but is a different calculus when dealing with family. on the positive side (kinda sorta), given a few health issues we got which make us more susceptible to covid, the recognition by all our relatives that our family has a few monstrous stoopid members is providing us with a good excuse for not attending family gatherings we otherwise wish to avoid, but is not a guaranteed get out of jail free card.  am told aunt ________ is 86 and this may be the last holiday season she will have a chance to be with the entire family. *groan* is true, but two years ago she were 84 and same leverage were used to emotional blackmail us into doing the family holiday bit. 

still haven't gotten our covid booster. should be receiving it in the next week or so. am nevertheless serious considering purposeful delay so we got an excuse to opt out o' this season's family holiday gatherings. perhaps we won't be able to get our booster until mid january?

HA! Good Fun! 

I am glad you getting your booster when you can, its important

But I am reluctant to call people who dont want to take vaccines as stupid because of the myriad of different reasons for many people not wanting to take a jab

My whole SA family is fully vaccinated but now some of them are not keen on the boosters for reasons that I dont agree with but I can understand the concern

But personally I am not going to avoid seeing family who dont take boosters, last Xmas I had by myself in Cpt because of the pandemic and none of us were vaccinated. It was terrible and lonely 

So all I can do is be fully vaccinated and take my booster when appropriate and then I will see my family and friends. Because if we avoid the unvaccinated you might be avoiding all social contact for 18-30 months ....or who knows how long before this pandemic is vastly reduced and we dont see waves anymore ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 

But I am reluctant to call people who dont want to take vaccines as stupid because of the myriad of different reasons for many people not wanting to take a jab

there aren't a myriad o' good reasons. there is a small list o' valid concerns, but the numbers o' reasons is extreme limited and 'course for those folks am complete understanding the concerns. however, for the folks who cannot get the vaccine or who have valid reasons for abstaining from the vaccine, chances are they is avoiding unnecessary social contact o' their own volition, and if they aren't, then chances are the "abject stoopid" label is once again applicable. is also people who is just plain afraid o' the vaccine. am actual fine with that situation. the thing is, if those afraid o' the vaccine wants to behave same as they were vaccinated, then once again, "abject stoopid" label is getting used w/o guilt. 

tough to avoid the stoopid label if is an issue o' "hanging out" with such persons, as much you as the unvaccinated.

@ShadySands

good luck and take care of your family. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Just now, ShadySands said:

And now I'm taking my wife to the hospital because she's having bad chest pains.

Urgh. Hope she recovers/it ends up nothing too serious.   😕

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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All the best Shady, hope everything ends up being fine.

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Look at Shady and Majestic, they didnt get the virus from partying. They got  it from family and it was no fault of theirs?

Wait, what? I came in contact with a breakthrough infection at work, have so far done 3 antigen tests every day since Sunday that all came back negative (PCR result still pending). I like my colleagues, but not enough to call them family. :p

My wife got exposed to the virus through her family. For the second time now. We're currently staying at separate aparments, you know, isolation and stuff...

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No voice to cry suffering.

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I'm definitely not going near my family now.

23 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Thanks all! I had to drop her off at the ER since we all have COVID and am just waiting for any updates.

Good luck.

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"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But think about what that means, if after 6-8 months your vaccine anti-bodies are gone then if you are exposed to the virus you can still get very sick which is what you  wanted to avoid in the first place?

Time matters. What you typically get from the vaccine are B-cells that know how to make antibodies to fight COVID-19. When they detect the antigen, they start cranking up production so your body is immediately fighting the contagion. Without the vaccine, you don't have the machinery ready so it takes longer for the body to make the required response. Meanwhile the virus is reproducing itself exponentially.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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3 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Thanks all! I had to drop her off at the ER since we all have COVID and am just waiting for any updates.

well that must be miserable for her-- sick and alone in an er.  hopefully she didn't need wait for some nightmarish stretch of time, but that is almost unavoidable. no doubt as bad as you feel you wish you could be with her, but please know your wife has our sincere sympathy and our best wishes. 

you also need to get better so you can take care of your son and once she comes home, your wife. as such am much wishing you well and am hoping for a speedy recovery for you and yours.

regardless, take care, and try not to feel guilty about getting rest and taking care of your self.

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

For the first time since this all begun, we had a day here in São Paulo when nobody died of Covid.

That your healthcare department is aware of? In SA we dont have resources to track the true number of deaths from the virus or to understand the real infection rate so definitely some deaths from the virus are not known to us...I would assume Brazil is the same from an accuracy point of view?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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5 hours ago, rjshae said:

Time matters. What you typically get from the vaccine are B-cells that know how to make antibodies to fight COVID-19. When they detect the antigen, they start cranking up production so your body is immediately fighting the contagion. Without the vaccine, you don't have the machinery ready so it takes longer for the body to make the required response. Meanwhile the virus is reproducing itself exponentially.

Thanks for the accurate medical explanation :thumbsup:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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23 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Because if we avoid the unvaccinated you might be avoiding all social contact for 18-30 months ....or who knows how long before this pandemic is vastly reduced and we dont see waves anymore ?

Eh, I strongly suspect some people dont have any friends to hang out with anyway. :lol:

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16 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

For the first time since this all begun, we had a day here in São Paulo when nobody died of Covid.

Technically the first here in Texas was the middle of March 2020, but since then it seems like it's been at least double digit deaths daily.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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1 minute ago, Hurlsnot said:

When I hear announcements like that from places that haven't fared well, it alwats seems strange to me. Like, are they bragging that all of the really vulnerable people are already dead at this point, so it should be smoother sailing?

I think it's to illustrate how bad things there are. Like if you looked at a factory where workplace accidents were daily and pointed out one day in two years without an accident, that just reinforces how unsafe conditions are there rather showing off.

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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28 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Eh, I strongly suspect some people dont have any friends to hang out with anyway. :lol:

But on a serious note, I agree that its not sustainable to avoid family and friends for 24 months or so

Human beings are gregarious creatures and most of us need social interaction and the reality in all our countries is the unvaccinated are amongst our friends and sometimes our families. So like I was saying earlier all I can do is ensure I am fully vaccinated but its just not possible for me to avoid contact with people who are unvaccinated. And I mean from a work perspective and social side 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Oh dear, Pfizer (contractor) caught cooking its data*. Wonder if they'll get the same treatment Astra Zeneca got from an admin error? Maybe the same rumours and innuendo from the press as sputnik or coronavac?

Don't want to spoil it for anyone, but they won't. It does potentially explain why Pfizer's efficacy drops off so precipitously over time though compared to other two dose vaccines and especially the functionally identical Moderna, if the initial effectiveness was inflated. Also, an absolute gift to antivaxxers. Coincidentally, the Pfizer CEO now wants vaccine misinformation criminalised...

Not a safety matter, but most definitely also not just a statistical/ admin issue either. Non independent selection of symptomatic cases to analyse is a very big no no, and the blind nature of the trials was thoroughly compromised.

*and unsurprisingly, warning about it ignored/ suppressed by the FDA.

51 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

When I hear announcements like that from places that haven't fared well, it alwats seems strange to me. Like, are they bragging that all of the really vulnerable people are already dead at this point, so it should be smoother sailing?

Brazil overall has a high vaccination rate, and iirc Sao Paolo was one of the places that went off the reservation with its response when Bolsonaro dropped the ball. It's also a fricking massive city, and even more populous state. Considering how badly thing are going elsewhere at the moment being pleased with zero deaths is understandable.

OTOH I do find the various 'covid recovery indices' rather ridiculous. #1, Ireland, with 1100/ million death rate; #38 New Zealand, with 6.

(Technically of course Ireland has definitely recovered better- but it's in the same way someone run over by a car has more recovery than someone who stubs their toe. You'd still prefer not to get run over, on balance)

 

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