Politics US Edition (2021-vol 2)

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Ammon Bundy, veteran of armed standoffs, builds militia network on COVID backlash

Get a load of this one. They’ve even got an app where you can call the militia to come and help. I need that. I need to do some tree trimming I wonder if they will help with that if I tell them the government doesn’t want me to do it!

Wonder how long the government will tolerate him.

[Guard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Wonder how long the government will tolerate him.

When you beat the government not once but twice it is kind of foolish to continue baiting the bear. But in this case he’s not actually doing anything wrong so much as making an ass of himself.

[Hurlshort]

Hot take:

Spoiler

edit: swear word ahead!

Edited February 9, 2021 by Hurlshot

[Malcador]

10 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Hot take:

  Hide contents

edit: swear word ahead!

Stupid, they can just put armrests in the middle. They do that here (people still complain about hostile architecture).  I enjoy seeing the anti skateboarding techniques they use though.

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Stupid, they can just put armrests in the middle. They do that here (people still complain about hostile architecture).  I enjoy seeing the anti skateboarding techniques they use though.

If half of the effort that is put to prevent homeless sleeping in public places would be put in getting homes for them you would not have to worry homeless people sleeping in benches in metro stations. I mean there are estimated 4000 people in New York who live on streets, so even with New York's apartment prices it would not be that expensive for the city to find them place to live. EDIT: Although there are also ~80k people who live in city's shelters, so there is higher need for homes than I first thought

"Home first then other issues"  is probably best money saving policy that our government has ever invented. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Elerond

[Gfted1]

We need to put these bum pods everywhere. That'll fix it.

[Guard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

We need to put these bum pods everywhere. That'll fix it.

LOL! Who wants to volunteer for the job of cleaning those things out?

[Gfted1]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

LOL! Who wants to volunteer for the job of cleaning those things out?

No kidding! I wonder if they have bumfights to see who get the pods.

[Malcador]

32 minutes ago, Elerond said:

If half of the effort that is put to prevent homeless sleeping in public places would be put in getting homes for them you would not have to worry homeless people sleeping in benches in metro stations. I mean there are estimated 4000 people in New York who live on streets, so even with New York's apartment prices it would not be that expensive for the city to find them place to live. EDIT: Although there are also ~80k people who live in city's shelters, so there is higher need for homes than I first thought

"Home first then other issues"  is probably best money saving policy that our government has ever invented. 

Well that's true but you know enforcement is sexier than prevention.  Surprised it's an issue, as opposed to their just sleeping on the subway trains.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

52 minutes ago, Elerond said:

If half of the effort that is put to prevent homeless sleeping in public places would be put in getting homes for them you would not have to worry homeless people sleeping in benches in metro stations. I mean there are estimated 4000 people in New York who live on streets, so even with New York's apartment prices it would not be that expensive for the city to find them place to live. EDIT: Although there are also ~80k people who live in city's shelters, so there is higher need for homes than I first thought

"Home first then other issues"  is probably best money saving policy that our government has ever invented. 

Housing being unaffordable is a big issue in most places, but I believe the last time I looked there was enough supply of housing to house the unhoused population 17 times over.

[Guard Dog]

49 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Housing being unaffordable is a big issue in most places, but I believe the last time I looked there was enough supply of housing to house the unhoused population 17 times over.

Sure. And all you have to do is take it from the people who own it. At gunpoint I’m guessing.

[Zoraptor]

Just do what Vancouver (?) did and slap a tax on unoccupied houses which makes it economic to have tenants instead of rely solely on house price inflation.

Good lord, these impeachment speeches are interminable. Cicero these guys most definitely are not.

[Bartimaeus]

31 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sure. And all you have to do is take it from the people who own it. At gunpoint I’m guessing.

Now you're getting it - Guard Dog for President of the Communist States 2024, everybody!

Edited February 9, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

31 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Sure. And all you have to do is take it from the people who own it. At gunpoint I’m guessing.

Well not only way. Depends on situation - you can put rules in stop speculation and unoccupied homes.  In Toronto those would help but also is an issue with zoning - mid rises are forbidden in most places.  Also transportation infrastructure is crap so large swathes of the city are not attractive to live in as they could be.

3 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Good lord, these impeachment speeches are interminable. Cicero these guys most definitely are not.

Recall a quote about how the US Senate destroys orators.  But at least they aggravate me less than

[ComradeYellow]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now you're getting it - Guard Dog for President of the Communist States 2024, everybody!

You can't be a Communist unless you understand dialectical materialism.  Platitudes about robbing peoples incest shacks are a bit overdone are they not?

[Guard Dog]

36 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

You can't be a Communist unless you understand dialectical materialism.  Platitudes about robbing peoples incest shacks are a bit overdone are they not?

I think it’s fair to say I’m not a communist because I do understand dialectical materialism. Humans are not inanimate objects on the conveyer belt to inevitable progress. economic behavior is human behavior and humans must act in their best interest as only they can understand what those are. They must be free to pursue what they want even if that’s not what’s best for them in the eyes of some folks. Economics is a poor lens through which to view a society. Not a great tool for shaping one either. Economies should be organic not directed

Edited February 9, 2021 by Guard Dog

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Sure. And all you have to do is take it from the people who own it. At gunpoint I’m guessing.

If landlords can't take a gunshot wound it's their own fault for choosing to be vulnerable to bullets.

[Gfted1]

The good news is that we could fit THOUSANDS of bumpods in Grant Park, and as an unexpected bonus, Buckingham Fountain can double as a bath house for the proletariat! w00tw00t!

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Elerond said:

If half of the effort that is put to prevent homeless sleeping in public places would be put in getting homes for them you would not have to worry homeless people sleeping in benches in metro stations. I mean there are estimated 4000 people in New York who live on streets, so even with New York's apartment prices it would not be that expensive for the city to find them place to live. EDIT: Although there are also ~80k people who live in city's shelters, so there is higher need for homes than I first thought

"Home first then other issues"  is probably best money saving policy that our government has ever invented. 

Elerond the issue of how to help the homeless is a global problem that most countries grapple with and you always end up balancing the human rights precedent with the economic reality

We have  this societal problem in SA as well and its particularly bad in Cpt, worse than JHB  actually. What I have realized over the last 20 months is that some homeless people make a choice for a variety of reasons to decide to stay on the streets. You cant help them in the same way that you can help other homeless people and you dont want to waste time and resources on those homeless people 

[Elerond]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Elerond the issue of how to help the homeless is a global problem that most countries grapple with and you always end up balancing the human rights precedent with the economic reality

We have  this societal problem in SA as well and its particularly bad in Cpt, worse than JHB  actually. What I have realized over the last 20 months is that some homeless people make a choice for a variety of reasons to decide to stay on the streets. You cant help them in the same way that you can help other homeless people and you dont want to waste time and resources on those homeless people 

Economic reality is that it has been cheaper Finland to get homeless people homes than deal with problems that rise from people living in the streets. Home first policy has dropped number of homeless people in Finland from 18k (4000 living in streets/shelters) in 1987 to 4600 in 2019. From those 4600 less than 739 has slept one or more nights on streets and number of people who have been homeless more than year is 987 from which 177 people have slept mainly on streets or shelters. Most homeless people currently live temporally with their family members or friends, meaning that they don't have permanent residency in the place where they are currently living. Cost of public assistance for homeless people has drop to less than quarter from what it was in 1987 when you include inflation.

Yeah, there are people who for some reason prefer to live on streets and there are always new people who end up to streets, so getting number of homeless people to zero is almost impossible, but by minimizing that number society can safe quite lot as it decreases crime, ensures that people have stronger ties to society which increases change that people get job and pay taxes.

 

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Economic reality is that it has been cheaper Finland to get homeless people homes than deal with problems that rise from people living in the streets. Home first policy has dropped number of homeless people in Finland from 18k (4000 living in streets/shelters) in 1987 to 4600 in 2019. From those 4600 less than 739 has slept one or more nights on streets and number of people who have been homeless more than year is 987 from which 177 people have slept mainly on streets or shelters. Most homeless people currently live temporally with their family members or friends, meaning that they don't have permanent residency in the place where they are currently living. Cost of public assistance for homeless people has drop to less than quarter from what it was in 1987 when you include inflation.

Yeah, there are people who for some reason prefer to live on streets and there are always new people who end up to streets, so getting number of homeless people to zero is almost impossible, but by minimizing that number society can safe quite lot as it decreases crime, ensures that people have stronger ties to society which increases change that people get job and pay taxes.

 

You make some good points as usual on this topic , in the example of Finland what type of homes does the state provide? Are they 1 bedroom, for example, and does the Finnish state pay for rates and electricity and other services  and how does a homeless person qualify for a state sponsored home ?

[Elerond]

Just now, BruceVC said:

You make some good points as usual on this topic , in the example of Finland what type of homes does the state provide? Are they 1 bedroom, for example, and does the Finnish state pay for rates and electricity and other services  and how does a homeless person qualify for a state sponsored home ?

Each city has their own system where they either own apartments that rent, or own company that rents apartments or they have deal with private companies that rent houses (or all the above) to homeless regardless of their history.  

Rent is paid directly from social security and housing assistance

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Each city has their own system where they either own apartments that rent, or own company that rents apartments or they have deal with private companies that rent houses (or all the above) to homeless regardless of their history.  

Rent is paid directly from social security and housing assistance

Thanks for sharing, this is the same as your successful University funding program

I wish SA had the resources, governance, citizen support and political will to do the same as Finland as our overall society would be much better.

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

You can't be a Communist unless you understand dialectical materialism.  Platitudes about robbing peoples incest shacks are a bit overdone are they not?

Nah, I would say platitudes about Communism and Socialism being viable systems of working governments are way, way overdone 

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

I think it’s fair to say I’m not a communist because I do understand dialectical materialism. Humans are not inanimate objects on the conveyer belt to inevitable progress. economic behavior is human behavior and humans must act in their best interest as only they can understand what those are. They must be free to pursue what they want even if that’s not what’s best for them in the eyes of some folks. Economics is a poor lens through which to view a society. Not a great tool for shaping one either. Economies should be organic not directed

I would add to this post you cannot legislate sustainable economic transformation or address inequality in a meaningful way through government interference and policy 

Economic transformation can only really be achieved through laws and policies that allow business to operate in an environment where it can flourish and not be forced to do certain things. Well meaning concepts like UBI are just a short term fix and can lead to real problems in the long term where some citizens will now have less interest or appetite to work and contribute towards the tax base