BruceVC Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, rjshae said: There were individuals in the mob who definitely had sedition on their minds, and hopefully those are being rounded up. For most though though, it was probably more of a "apes together strong" riot by the far right. Unfortunately, the sedistionists were likely also the leaders and initiators. There have been several arrests...all the well filmed instigators have basically been arrested. This includes Camp Auschwitz guy : my most deplorable person The cosplay guy with the horns : he said he did because that is what Trump wanted them to do to save the Democracy The guy with the Confederate flag A 52 old ex-Airforce colonel ( or similar rank or unit ) who was turned in by his ex-wife who recognized him on the TV And countless others who were visible in the media So I want to commend the various US security forces involved for addressing this quickly and effectively. That is why I dont think there will be serious violence on the 20 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
ShadySands Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 23 minutes ago, Gromnir said: wrong new coke. https://www.foodandwine.com/news/new-coke-vs-coca-cola-taste-test HA! Good Fun! Thanks for that. I was about to say that I believed that new coke was actually sweeter than old coke and that was one of the reasons that Pepsi was beating it in a blind taste. Mind you this is mostly second hand info as I was like 3 when all this went down Free games updated 3/4/21
Raithe Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 1 1 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Gromnir Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 19 minutes ago, ShadySands said: Thanks for that. I was about to say that I believed that new coke was actually sweeter than old coke and that was one of the reasons that Pepsi was beating it in a blind taste. Mind you this is mostly second hand info as I was like 3 when all this went down we were a bit older than three. our visual memory is excellent. our audio memory is ok. olfactory and taste? 85 were a long time past. if somebody put before us dixie cups with varieties o' not readily available cola soda and then asked us to pick out new coke, am not having a high degree o' confidence we could accurate identify. we literal tasted the stuff on less than ten separate occasions during one summer more than three decades in the rear view mirror. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Guard Dog Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 27 minutes ago, Achilles said: He made some really good observations and I agree with his point. Calling this an insurrection or a sedition is giving it too much clout and too much credit. Far better to call it a motley disorganized mob. It’s always wise to deny the enemy something they want. If they want credibility it’s wise to deny than that. 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
BruceVC Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: He made some really good observations and I agree with his point. Calling this an insurrection or a sedition is giving it too much clout and too much credit. Far better to call it a motley disorganized mob. It’s always wise to deny the enemy something they want. If they want credibility it’s wise to deny than that. That is correct, you dont want to give certain developments agency by reading too much into what was their real motivation We all know there was blatant criminal behavior by some in the violent mob, I have seen some really bad stories on CNN by some of the Capitol cops and they were really abused and attacked But we musnt call it something its not, I like the violent mob definition personally ? ' "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Hurlshort Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard. 2 1
Guard Dog Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said: I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard. Plus he literally told him to go do what they did. He didn’t explicitly tell them go break in the capital terrorize the Congress and trash everything in sight. But he came just short of it with what he did say. You can’t light a stick of dynamite throw it away and then be blameless for what it blows up "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Guard Dog Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 Trump has an obligation to pardon rioters well, that’s one way to look at it. Good luck with that legal strategy "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Bartimaeus Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 I keep thinking that any charges on anyone involved should really be brought on the 21st, and not a moment before or after... Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Darkpriest Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said: I keep thinking that any charges on anyone involved should really be brought on the 21st, and not a moment before or after... Why? Did you have same approach to creators of lawless autonomous zones, where people were murdered and property destroyed? Sure, prosecute and sentence those individuals, who were responsible for bodily harm, plus those who did significant damage to property or stole, but a lot of that mob went there in protest, not as a lynch mob to kill other people or secede or in attempt to coup. More of a manifest of their political support to the current president. I also agree, that Trump was responsible for making that mob angry enough, but I do not believe this was a delibarate act of inciting to voilence. Cynism and political hyperbole, but still within the premise of political speach. Ignorant and irresponsible, but not that much different than a lot of politicians do. Why people allow and pick such politicians using such a language to position of significance, that's another story, but it is an ugly byproduct of masses being generally stupid, leading to democracy being in time devolved to idiocracy. Edited January 15, 2021 by Darkpriest
Gromnir Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Hurlshot said: I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard. am not sure why some people believe a recognition that the january 6 rioters were a mob somehow precludes the possibility that many people and sub-groups w/i the mob were engaging in seditious behavior. am also gonna admit that the video linked by @Achilles has the speaker beginning with observations which were new to us. have watched a bit of fox and cnn. have read a fair amount at npr, washington post and many national newspapers. the description o' the mob elements as highly skilled were a bit o' a straw man in our personal experience as have literal never seen that claim made in the week since the Capitol riot. am not doubting a few pundits identified some select rioters or groups o' rioters as being militarized to some degree, but we all saw bison horn guy and who amongst us thought he were an element o' a well-trained militia group? the folks being arrested so far, or who is showing up frequent in news stories, is hvac repairmen from chicago or real estate agents from new jersey. an olympic medal swimmer were arrested. the singer in the article we linked earlier didn't strike us as skilled in modern combat techniques. the retired fireman who was bludgeoning cops with a fire extinguisher may not have been a professional, but he clear crossed a line and that line were not fuzzy and tough to recognize. how many of the rioters who entered Capitol property w/o permission were hoping to at least delay the electoral college counting? not skilled professionals. however, is tough to not see trump as A inciting cause and many were bent on actions which fall w/i any dictionary or legal definition o' seditiious. a seditious mob is not an oxymoron. HA! Good Fun! Edited January 15, 2021 by Gromnir why did we write "newspapers" as two words? "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Bartimaeus Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 Mitch McConnell is telling GOP senators their decision on a Trump impeachment trial conviction is a 'vote of conscience' A vote of conscience? That's a new one from him, . 2 Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Amentep Posted January 15, 2021 Author Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said: I keep thinking that any charges on anyone involved should really be brought on the 21st, and not a moment before or after... If that's to get around Trump's pardon power, as I understand it he can pardon them without them being charged, and without specifying he's pardoning a specific person. So waiting to charge people until the 21st doesn't do anything to negate Trump's pardon power. EDIT: I too hadn't heard people say the rioters were highly skilled/trained group. I have heard people talk about their organization and what that means for their intent (like knowing where windows were and directing people to them so they could penetrate further, etc). Edited January 15, 2021 by Amentep my english language skills are clearly suffering. 2 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Guest Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said: Mitch McConnell is telling GOP senators their decision on a Trump impeachment trial conviction is a 'vote of conscience' A vote of conscience? That's a new one from him, . That sounds like code for, "I won't obstruct the vote or threaten to have you primaried if you oppose me"
rjshae Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said: Trump has an obligation to pardon rioters well, that’s one way to look at it. Good luck with that legal strategy I'm thinking at this point that whether Trump pardons the ape-men rioters or not, or even himself, will go a long way toward determining the outcome of the impeachment. A pardon will have to come in the next few days; the Senate trial will likely follow. "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Bartimaeus Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Amentep said: If that's to get around Trump's pardon power, as I understand it he can pardon them without them being charged, and without specifying he's pardoning a specific person. So waiting to charge people until the 21st doesn't do anything to negate Trump's pardon power. EDIT: I too hadn't heard people say the rioters were highly skilled/trained group. I have heard people talk about their organization and what that means for their intent (like knowing where windows were and directing people to them so they could penetrate further, etc). Yes, but this is Trump we're talking about. If it's never brought to his attention while he's watching TV or reading headlines on Twitter or whatever, it's probably a lot less likely to happen, . In regards to the insurrection, there's a lady that Twitter has been calling the Bullhorn Lady who was calling out specific instructions and telling people where whose offices were located where. Here's a picture of her on the left...and a picture of Lauren Boebert's mother (the QAnon House Representative who's been trying to bring guns into Congress and also tweeted out the location of Nancy Pelosi during the insurrection) on the right: Nancy Pelosi, just a little while ago today, announced that they'd be charging any Congress representatives who helped carry out the insurrection. Can't help but wonder if there's a little foreshadowing here. Edited January 15, 2021 by Bartimaeus Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Hurlshort Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 53 minutes ago, Darkpriest said: Why? Did you have same approach to creators of lawless autonomous zones, where people were murdered and property destroyed? Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes?
Guest Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Hurlshot said: Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes? Probably better not to feed into "whataboutism". My $0.02
Malcador Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 Seems like a Ghillie suit is a poor choice of outerwear for a protest in DC. Well or even storming a building. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Bartimaeus Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Achilles said: Probably better not to feed into "whataboutism". My $0.02 More like "probably better not to feed into patently and offensively absurd questions and those who ask them in bad faith". Who was that even responding to? Oh, it was me. Well, that just about figures, doesn't it? Edited January 15, 2021 by Bartimaeus 1 Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Darkpriest Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 16 minutes ago, Hurlshot said: Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes? Including sedition? 1
rjshae Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 49 minutes ago, Hurlshot said: Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes? Well it's certainly happening in Seattle, albeit at a slower pace because of the pandemic. For example: https://www.kuow.org/stories/who-faces-criminal-charges-related-to-seattle-area-protests-here-s-a-roundup 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."
Hiro Protagonist Posted January 15, 2021 Posted January 15, 2021 9 hours ago, Gfted1 said: What! Only another 2T!?!?!? He better come bigger than that weaksauce. 9 hours ago, Guard Dog said: Spend more.... More.... MORE.... MORE!!!! Collapse the dollar, hyper inflation, $1k loaves of bread! Let it all BURN. BURN! If Australia can afford 1 trillion and give people up to $1500 every two weeks, then why can't America afford 2 trillion? We don't have $1k loaves of bread. You can buy bread from the supermarket here for $1.30 https://shop.coles.com.au/a/national/product/coles-smart-buy-bread-white
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