Politics... World events

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

It's the US trying to alter those existing IP agreements for its own benefit.

And this is in the section you quoted?

[Zoraptor]

I picked that section because I knew the number already, and you seemed skeptical of the EFF's claims. And yes, it is an example of the US trying to alter IP agreements for its own benefit, it just doesn't cover every aspect of that. We're legally allowed to format shift here, and back up computer programs etc, we wouldn't be able to do that if DRM can't be circumvented. We'd also have to rebuy media whenever the DRM scheme stops working.

There certainly would be a workable alternative where circumventing DRM is illegal, but rights holders are in return obligated to support licence holders access rights when their DRM schemes fail. That's not what the US or IP holders want though.

[213374U]

4 hours ago, Achilles said:

Is the argument that "how things are regarded" should be the basis for action? Again, my young children didn't regard getting shots very well. Still needed to be done though, right?

I seriously doubt that the relationship between you and your children was one of equals looking for common ground to build a mutually beneficial agreement on. That's how trade deals are supposed to work, even if in reality they may be more like a parent-children relationship with one side holding disproportionate power. Still, you'd have to argue that the agreement would be intrinsically good for all participants, which is frankly one hell of a tall order, for the analogy to work.

If something is widely not well regarded, that alone is indeed sufficient reason to avoid going ahead with it if you're even remotely attempting to keep a semblance of democratic governance.

TPP strikes me as a weird hill to die on. This is not your typical neckbeard nontroversy. It was bad news for consumers, no matter how you look at it. Here's a nugget to add to what Zoraptor was discussing:

Article 18.82: Legal Remedies and Safe Harbours

1. The Parties recognise the importance of facilitating the continued development of legitimate online services operating as intermediaries and, in a manner consistent with Article 41 of the TRIPS Agreement, providing enforcement procedures that permit effective action by right holders against copyright infringement covered under this Chapter that occurs in the online environment. Accordingly, each Party shall ensure that legal remedies are available for right holders to address such copyright infringement and shall establish or maintain appropriate safe harbours in respect of online services that are Internet Service Providers. This framework of legal remedies and safe harbours shall include:

• (a) legal incentives for Internet Service Providers to cooperate with copyright owners to deter the unauthorised storage and transmission of copyrighted materials or, in the alternative, to take other action to deter the unauthorised storage and transmission of copyrighted materials; and
• (b) limitations in its law that have the effect of precluding monetary relief against Internet Service Providers for copyright infringements that they do not control, initiate or direct, and that take place through systems or networks controlled or operated by them or on their behalf

 

This seeks to impose the American kind of private ordering of copyright enforcement on jurisdictions where it's not accepted, which could lead to widespread YouTube-style DMCA censorship by ISPs. Such would be unfair, inconsistent, and most importantly, ineffectual... for no benefit to consumers, who are robbed of any expectation of due process. The provisions for "safe harbours" are only meaningful if in the context of extending liability to ISPs, which is not a universal legal doctrine. That in addition to the requirements that parties ensure criminal penalties for copyright infringement even in the absence of financial gain as per Art. 18.77 (1.b). This would shift the burden from private copyright holders to the public again for no benefit, but opening the door to a non-insignificant risk of bogus copyright claims being used to cover government censorship.

There's plenty of detailed analyses by smarter and more informed people than me available from not reddit, if you want to look. Bad deal is bad.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, 213374U said:

TPP strikes me as a weird hill to die on.

Not terribly interested in fighting for TPP. My beef with the TPP discussion has been the amount of pearl-clutching over claims that even the claimants make little effort to substantiate. You know, "don't believe everything you read on the internet"?

Again, my direct experience with this is reading sections of a leaked document to see if XYZ claims held any truth. Not a one ever held up. At some point, the TPP scare went into the "nothing-burger" bucket for me. Even the section you quoted above has another reading other than the take you've provided.

The argument that implementation went smoothly once certain provisions were removed says nothing about the merit (or lack thereof) of those provisions.

And because I'm tired of repeating these points, I respectfully offer the finals words on this aside to you and @Zoraptor

Thanks for reading

[Gorth]

Australia generally has a problem with a toxic "macho" culture. Whether it being in the sports teams (bullying and sexual abuse are major issues), binge drinking among young males to a long list of war crimes committed recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. Mostly killing pow's or just gunning down civilians as a matter of convenience and in some cases to get new recruits "blooded". Yeah, no kidding. Something is definitely rotten down under.

Btw, this is the story that the right wing government under Scott Morrison tried to stop from being known by raiding the independent news channels, detaining journalist and seizing their computers. Sounds familiar? Yeah, welcome to the old boys club. Just like the church covering their pedophile priests and making sure they don't get prosecuted.

(as an aside, the Vatican paid millions of dollars to the Scott Morrison government to get their pedophile cardinal (George Pell) out of jail and put on a plane to the Vatican, covid and travel restrictions be damned).

 

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has released findings from a four-year inquiry into misconduct by its forces.

It said 19 current or ex-special forces soldiers should be investigated by police over killings of "prisoners, farmers or civilians" in 2009-13.

The ADF blamed crimes on an unchecked "warrior culture" among some soldiers.

The inquiry - conducted by Maj Gen Justice Paul Brereton - conducted interviews with more than 400 witnesses. It also found evidence that:

• Junior soldiers were told to get their first kill by shooting prisoners, in a practice known as "blooding"
• Weapons and other items were planted near Afghan bodies to cover up crimes
• An additional two incidents could constitute a war crime of "cruel treatment"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54996581

 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

Australia generally has a problem with a toxic "macho" culture. Whether it being in the sports teams (bullying and sexual abuse are major issues), binge drinking among young males to a long list of war crimes committed recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. Mostly killing pow's or just gunning down civilians as a matter of convenience and in some cases to get new recruits "blooded". Yeah, no kidding. Something is definitely rotten down under.

Btw, this is the story that the right wing government under Scott Morrison tried to stop from being known by raiding the independent news channels, detaining journalist and seizing their computers. Sounds familiar? Yeah, welcome to the old boys club. Just like the church covering their pedophile priests and making sure they don't get prosecuted.

(as an aside, the Vatican paid millions of dollars to the Scott Morrison government to get their pedophile cardinal (George Pell) out of jail and put on a plane to the Vatican, covid and travel restrictions be damned).

 

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has released findings from a four-year inquiry into misconduct by its forces.

It said 19 current or ex-special forces soldiers should be investigated by police over killings of "prisoners, farmers or civilians" in 2009-13.

The ADF blamed crimes on an unchecked "warrior culture" among some soldiers.

The inquiry - conducted by Maj Gen Justice Paul Brereton - conducted interviews with more than 400 witnesses. It also found evidence that:

• Junior soldiers were told to get their first kill by shooting prisoners, in a practice known as "blooding"
• Weapons and other items were planted near Afghan bodies to cover up crimes
• An additional two incidents could constitute a war crime of "cruel treatment"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54996581

 

Gorthfuscious I dont want to undermine the important point you raising about real and alleged  war crimes committed by the Australia military in any military  campaign but I always get concerned with most generalizations as they ostensibly can create unfair perceptions about the broader reality of a particular group, in this case its about the Oz public perception that exists about there own armies  professionalism 

For example you mention 19 cases. I am sure you are aware that Australia has committed thousands of troops since 2001 to numerous military missions and in most cases the Australian forces have conducted themselves with honor and  are not  linked to war crimes and illegal killings

All I am suggesting is we should always try to not use the the behavior of " bad apples " to malign an entire institution as if everyone is the same 

 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

All I am suggesting is we should always try to not use the the behavior of " bad apples " to malign an entire institution as if everyone is the same 

And I'm suggesting that people murdering other people, in some cases, simply for fun and trophies, shouldn't go unpunished and those responsible should be held accountable, even if they belong to the so called "good guys". What made it even worse was that the government actively tried to cover it up and silence the press investigating the cases (and calling foul on the official version: nothing wrong, all good here)

 

Edit: In Germany, they had a problem too with special forces, the KSK started to show a worrying trend as they began exhibiting some distinctly neo-nazi traits. They simply disbanded the unit. Sometimes a group can be too rotten to be salvaged. They didn't take to the streets and yell "defund the KSK", they simply disbanded it. End of story. That's one way of dealing with leadership problems in a force.

https://www.dw.com/en/ksk-german-special-forces-company-dissolved-due-to-far-right-concerns/a-54386661

 

[Azdeus]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

Australia generally has a problem with a toxic "macho" culture. Whether it being in the sports teams (bullying and sexual abuse are major issues), binge drinking among young males to a long list of war crimes committed recently in Afghanistan and Iraq. Mostly killing pow's or just gunning down civilians as a matter of convenience and in some cases to get new recruits "blooded". Yeah, no kidding. Something is definitely rotten down under.

Btw, this is the story that the right wing government under Scott Morrison tried to stop from being known by raiding the independent news channels, detaining journalist and seizing their computers. Sounds familiar? Yeah, welcome to the old boys club. Just like the church covering their pedophile priests and making sure they don't get prosecuted.

(as an aside, the Vatican paid millions of dollars to the Scott Morrison government to get their pedophile cardinal (George Pell) out of jail and put on a plane to the Vatican, covid and travel restrictions be damned).

 

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has released findings from a four-year inquiry into misconduct by its forces.

It said 19 current or ex-special forces soldiers should be investigated by police over killings of "prisoners, farmers or civilians" in 2009-13.

The ADF blamed crimes on an unchecked "warrior culture" among some soldiers.

The inquiry - conducted by Maj Gen Justice Paul Brereton - conducted interviews with more than 400 witnesses. It also found evidence that:

• Junior soldiers were told to get their first kill by shooting prisoners, in a practice known as "blooding"
• Weapons and other items were planted near Afghan bodies to cover up crimes
• An additional two incidents could constitute a war crime of "cruel treatment"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54996581

 

Government ****-****ery at it's finest

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, Gorth said:

And I'm suggesting that people murdering other people, in some cases, simply for fun and trophies, shouldn't go unpunished and those responsible should be held accountable, even if they belong to the so called "good guys". What made it even worse was that the government actively tried to cover it up and silence the press investigating the cases (and calling foul on the official version: nothing wrong, all good here)

 

Edit: In Germany, they had a problem too with special forces, the KSK started to show a worrying trend as they began exhibiting some distinctly neo-nazi traits. They simply disbanded the force. Sometimes a group can be too rotten to be salvaged. They didn't take to the streets and yell "defund the KSK", they simply disbanded it. End of story. That's one way of dealing with leadership problems in a force.

https://www.dw.com/en/ksk-german-special-forces-company-dissolved-due-to-far-right-concerns/a-54386661

 

I appreciate that link but I have the same issue with that type of reaction or perhaps " overreaction " if they had disbanded the entire KSK unit but in the example  of  Germany they disbanded  a company not the entire unit as the link mentions 

To quote the article you posted 

In May 2020, police raided the home of one soldier in the 2nd company and found explosives and ammunition stashed underground.

The KSK has around 300 soldiers and several hundred additional staff. Some soldiers will be transferred to other KSK companies, according to the ministry.

MAD noted that 20 of the suspected right-wing extremism cases currently being processed were within the KSK. In relation to the number of personnel, this was five times the proportion in the rest of the Bundeswehr

So in other words 20 soldiers which represent 4 % of the total number of KSK ( 300 soldiers plus the several hundred staff so 500 is probably less than the total number ) shouldn't be a reason to shut down an entire unit that has been around since 1996

I am not saying soldiers  shouldn't be prosecuted if they guilty of war crimes or criminality but its not reasonable to think you can disband an entire unit unless its truly widespread ...and that isnt what happened in Germany but I am commenting on  your broader point around an adequate response to this type of military conduct 

 

 

 

 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

I appreciate that link but I have the same issue with that type of reaction or perhaps " overreaction " if they had disbanded the entire KSK unit but in the example  of  Germany they disbanded  a company not the entire unit as the link mentions

I know, and edited my post long before your reply

It's a problem when it's a leadership problem and yes, I followed the development of the German problem over the years (it didn't just pop up from one day to another), which is why it was the first thing that sprang to mind. If officers and people in command are the problem, you only have so many options to change the culture of a unit. New recruits wont fix it. Need more examples, parts of the US police force? No doubt, there are many good cops putting their lives on the line daily for society, but if you have units that not giving a damn about what they were supposed to represent, you need to deal with it. if it's the senior staff that is the problem, no influx of new recruits are ever going to fix your problem. You need to get rid of the head of the snake and rebuild and then be more vigilant when it comes to putting people in power again. Especially those with the power over the life and death of other people.

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I know, and edited my post long before your reply

It's a problem when it's a leadership problem and yes, I followed the development of the German problem over the years (it didn't just pop up from one day to another), which is why it was the first thing that sprang to mind. If officers and people in command are the problem, you only have so many options to change the culture of a unit. New recruits wont fix it. Need more examples, parts of the US police force? No doubt, there are many good cops putting their lives on the line daily for society, but if you have units that not giving a damn about what they were supposed to represent, you need to deal with it. if it's the senior staff that is the problem, no influx of new recruits are ever going to fix your problem. You need to get rid of the head of the snake and rebuild and then be more vigilant when it comes to putting people in power again. Especially those with the power over the life and death of other people.

Fair enough, one cannot argue that bad leadership in any example feeds down and inculcates a real outcome of bad decisions on the ground. I would say  this is irrefutable and indubitable 

Sorry for  repeating myself but  I will add as my last point on this particular discussion is sometimes " bad apple " behavior is used to vilify the entire institution and its not fair or constructive in the long term 

[Gorth]

53 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry for  repeating myself but  I will add as my last point on this particular discussion is sometimes " bad apple " behavior is used to vilify the entire institution and its not fair or constructive in the long term 

That we can probably agree on... at least up to the point where said institution fails to address the issue in an effective manner.

[Gorth]

Scotland the Brave!...

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Hands up anyone who feel like sniggering at the following article.

If you do, you're not alone, just ignorant. It's a significant expense, that is no laughing matter, especially for struggling families. As mentioned in The Guardian article below, stigma around the subject is no small part of the problem.

 

Scotland has become the first country in the world to make period products free for all.

MSPs unanimously approved the Period Products (Free Provision) (Scotland) Bill on Tuesday.

There is now a legal duty on local authorities to ensure that free items such as tampons and sanitary pads are available to "anyone who needs them".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51629880

 

The issue isn't new (2017):

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/17/girls-from-poorer-families-in-england-struggle-to-afford-sanitary-protection

Charities, campaigners and teachers report scale of the problem, saying more must be done to tackle stigma

Girls from low-income families across England are struggling to afford sanitary protection, with many teachers buying tampons for their students or seeking help with supplies from charities and voluntary groups, the Guardian has been told.

Charities, campaigners and teachers say that the problem is happening in cities and rural areas across the country, describing girls missing school, using donations, or wearing makeshift protection during their period.

 

I know, why should I care, right? I'm a guy. I don't have a partner nor daughters, so I could just not care, right? Which is an attitude that leaves humanity stuck in the dark ages (IMHO). I'm not going to benefit directly from the Scottish parliaments decision, but... I do think access to basic necessities (and I do consider this a basic necessity) should be a not unreasonable expectation in a civilized society, just like healthcare and education.

[Gfted1]

Now Im genuinely curious, are other similar products such as TP or toothpaste/toothbrush, already free in Scotland?

[Hurlshort]

I'd imagine TP is readily available already, as I've found most public restrooms provide that and don't expect you to bring your own.

Fun fact, my wife who teachers High School PE, has been buying feminine hygiene products and providing them for students for the last couple decades. She typically sells bottled water to cover the costs. 

[majestic]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

I know, why should I care, right? I'm a guy. I don't have a partner nor daughters, so I could just not care, right? Which is an attitude that leaves humanity stuck in the dark ages (IMHO).

Bloody freebooters, what happened to the time when women had to bring a sacrifice to the temple after being unclean for a week?

Leviticus 15:29-30

Quote

On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.

Women here have campaigned to have sanitary products except from VAT, or at least reduced VAT (other items considerd basic necessities like food, water and energy have reduced VAT) to no avail for a while now - let alone them being freely available if you can't afford your own.

[Zoraptor]

There's a trial on free tampons/ pads in high schools here. It's got pretty broad support from everyone. The other option they were looking at was getting the government's medical bulk purchase agency to do the purchasing and then on sell at cost for older women.

[Gorth]

As corrupt as the Australian legal system is... there are always some worse off than yourself.

This activist in Singapore got charged with illegal assembly. Yeah, can't have those giant crowds in these covid times, right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55068007

 

 

[Gorth]

In local news... looks like we're heading for a hot summer. Temperatures have already broken existing records for this time of year.

While 40-45C (104-113F) isn't unheard of, those normally occurs in the summer. Bear in mind, it's not summer yet, only spring down here. Makes you wonder how much combustible material is left after last years fire season, because if this keeps up, whatever is left is going to be very dry already.

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/weekend-scorcher-as-extreme-heatwave-lashes-parts-of-australia/news-story/4532b4585dd8eb6a88b2798e91749ae4

 

[Zoraptor]

Israel looks pretty desperate to provoke a war with Iran before Trump leaves office. Assassinating a nuclear scientist (probably carried out physically by MEK) and three days of bombing in southern Syria too. Obviously hoping for a retaliation that can be used to drop a dead cow down the JCPOA well in case Biden tries to resuscitate it. Also a lot more fighting from Turkish proxies vs the Kurds in north Syria, with Erdogan another who probably wants as much as he can get before Trump goes. The Syria mercenaries who went to Azerbaijan are also being rushed back.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Israel looks pretty desperate to provoke a war with Iran before Trump leaves office.

Bibi's flight to Saudia Arabia seems to have been a signal to Biden as well. Also hilarious how all of a sudden Isreal removed Saudi Arabia from the corona travel restriction list immediately after he went there.

On the bright side, Isreal is maybe looking at the fourth general election in a row. Where's the popcorn at?

[Gorth]

39 minutes ago, majestic said:

On the bright side, Isreal is maybe looking at the fourth general election in a row. Where's the popcorn at?

Being a serial winner of elections is one way of escaping the prosecution for corruption. Of course, you need to create constant conflicts to stay in power.

 

Looks like Ethiopia has joined the club of countries with leaders that wants to throw out the status quo and turn it into authoritarian states. After having subjugated the southern ethnic groups it was Tigray that got to feel the ambitions of a new Erdogan in the making.

[Zoraptor]

In that case it was definitely the Tigrayans who started the latest fighting, since they outright admitted attacking the army first (and lobbing a bunch of missiles at Eritrea to try and involve them too). The Tigrayans were almost certainly getting outside help/ encouragement from Egypt/ Sudan due to tensions over the New Renaissance Dam as well as that, which adds extra complication. Egypt has implied they'd go so far as blowing the dam up, and it would definitely be in their interest to do it deniably via a 3rd party instead of directly.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Zoraptor

[Raithe]

I'm trying to decide just how to take the news that China has savaged Australia for allowing their soldiers to kill innocent civilians and deny human rights outrages.

[Gorth]

47 minutes ago, Raithe said:

I'm trying to decide just how to take the news that China has savaged Australia for allowing their soldiers to kill innocent civilians and deny human rights outrages.

Xi doesn't take criticism very well