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That really does sum up how badly China reads things internationally though. I'm sure tweeting out photoshopped images and the like seems like a masterstroke if you're some true believer apparatchnik in Beijing looking for a cheap hit that would go down well in China, but all it actually does internationally is give Australia a chance to distract from the main issue and give more exposure to Chinese abuses.

Now Scotty from marketing can stand up and shout about Chinese interference, Chinese fake news, Chinese faked photos and appeal to his nationalist base. People aren't going to look at China's input and decide to vote Morrison out, quite the reverse. At some point the Chinese proxies in the mining industry etc are going to decide to cut their losses because public opinion is simply too entrenched to change. And it also means that every western news report on the issue mentions organ harvesting/ re-education camps/ Hong Kong etc etc again to give 'context'.

The worst result though is that awful Murdoch puppet who so aptly deserves the sobriquet Scummo can distract everyone away not only from the fact that Australian soldiers murdered people in comically evil ways for comically evil reasons but that he* did his best to suppress it, cover it up and punish the people exposing it rather than those doing the murdering. Sometimes, the best thing you can do when an enemy makes a mistake is just keep your mouth shut and let them suffer the consequences rather than grandstanding.

*well, the L/N Coalition government in general, since it started under Turnbull.

Edited by Zoraptor
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On 12/1/2020 at 7:12 AM, Zoraptor said:

I'm sure tweeting out photoshopped images and the like...

 

The picture of an Australian soldier and the context of warcrimes is not a photoshopped image. It's a political cartoon created by a Chinese artist (Fu Yu — political computer graphic artist behind the image, who is also known online as Qilin) expressing his political opinion which the Chinese artist has done on many occasions in the past with his political cartoons. The Chinese artist's work was seized upon by a Chinese official and tweeted on twitter. Basically the Chinese offical trolled the twitterverse to get a bite and he got the biggest bite with some world leaders, politicians, political commentators and the media. Morrison got trolled hard.

For decades, we've (Australia) always made political cartoons of other countries including the USA. Now countries are making political cartoons of Australia calling out our hypocrisy. This to me is the main issue. Everything else (like what other countries has done in the past) is noise and distraction. Bringing up what China has done in the past is just a red herring. China should be allowed to tweet political cartoons and criticise other countries just like Australia does. Australia isn't innocent and We shouldn't be trying to censor China. We're going to see more politicians and Morrison being trolled and offended by political cartoons and the rest of the world (especially China) will be laughing at us.

Also, from Chinese state media: A Chinese artist expressed his anger and condemnation against Australian troops’ war crimes with a cartoon. A Chinese diplomat put it on Twitter. They are practicing their freedom of speech. Ridiculously, such moves are intolerant to Australia.

Chinese netizens combined the artists's new picture with his previous one and the photo of the SAS with the nazi flag to make one complete picture.

Another one with Morrison:

 

 

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China can tweet whatever it likes, no one is stopping them. Their approach is just counterproductive* in this case and, of course in the context of it being 'freedom of speech' it has to pointed out that access to Twitter is severely restricted inside China so while it might be nice they're practicing their governmental freedom of speech it might also be nice if their populace could too..

It's 100% in Morrison's best interests to be 'trolled' because it allows him to shift the narrative away from his efforts to suppress the revelations and target the whistleblowers rather than the perpetrators, and to instead frame it as part of the larger China v Australia dispute. That's why it's counterproductive.

And yeah, Australia perhaps isn't in the best position to criticise others for human rights violations in general given things like its treatment of Aboriginals being (and to a far lesser extent still being) about as bad as you can get. But while Aborigines are to put it mildly massively disadvantaged at least they aren't in huge re-education camps learning to worship Scott Morrison and the Liberal Party while having their organs stolen if they don't re-educate quick enough.

*well, the whole 'wolf warrior' thing is targeted at the Chinese diaspora more than foreign citizens generally, to stoke feelings of righteous indignation and threaten any dissenters. In that context it kind of works, usually.

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21 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

China can tweet whatever it likes, no one is stopping them.

 

Morrison is trying to stop them.

Twitter keeps fake China image despite PM Scott Morrison demanding removal.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/twitter-keeps-fake-china-image-despite-pm-scott-morrison-demanding-removal/news-story/fda1e10ef053788c860d903a26b5b1f3

Overnight, despite pleas from both Mr Morrison and government officials, the image remained available.

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Of course Morrison wants to stop them. He'd happily turn all social media into his personal mouthpiece, if he could. He can't though, so it's irrelevant. Much as Xi can't get every Winnie the Pooh cartoon banned, outside China.

Of course it's hypocritical. Politicians excel at being hypocrites and there quite literally isn't enough time in the day to point out every bit of it. The problem is very much with who is pointing out the hypocrisy, not that it's being pointed out.

OTOH, it's absolutely hilarious France joining the complaints post Charlie Hebdo. French political cartoons obviously deserve political protection and promotion, Chinese ones... not so much. Then again, that is from Macron, the guy who wants to make photographing police illegal.

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1 hour ago, Hiro Protagonist said:

It's all deflection from Morrison from the real issues of war crimes and reparations to Afghanistan.

Yeah, the hypocrisy is real. The same Morrison that decided to sic the federal police on ABC news, raiding their offices and seizing their computers, trying to prevent the story from being revealed in the first place. Being called out by China of all things for his human rights and freedom of press record.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Not everything in 2020 was bad. A local behemoth of an investigation and trial finally came to a very satisfying conclusion (assuming for a moment that the verdict holds, which it pretty much will). 11 years worth of investigation and a three year trial. That might look really inefficient but the defendant's council fought tooth and nail to delay wherever they could (here I would postulate that they always expected the verdict to be guilty and they dragged out the trial at every potential turn to be able to appeal to the ECHR later). Getting the necessary documents from the banks in Liechtenstein alone took three years.

https://www.politico.eu/article/karl-heinz-grasser-austria-finance-minister-corruption/

Have fun in jail, pretty boy. I'm sure you're going to be really popular there. Take care to not drop the soap too much. The article's slightly wrong though, he didn't pocket the 9.6 million alone, that was for him and his accomplices, all of which were sentenced to 6 or 7 years).

Anyway, what I do find funny is that his lawyer immediately stated that they're going to appeal the verdict. In Austrian law the verdict of a trial by jury is not appealable, only the sentence.

Of course the outcome of the trial can potentially be nullified if grave procedural errors were to be discovered, significant new evidence brought forth or the judge and jury to be deemed not having  weighed evidence with the necessary care, all of which would lead to a re-trail. Given how immensely high profile this case was here procedural errors are unlikely to show up, and if there were any significant new evidence it would have been entered by now. However, anything's possible (just unlikely).

The appeal might even backfire. The jury saw the long duration of the trial as extenuating circumstances and reduced the maximum penalty from fifteen to ten years (of which he has gotten eight). The supreme court might just as well inrease the sentence if they decide to apply the full range of penalty as per the legal framework. Also not very likely, but one can hope, yes? :p

Edited by majestic
Just noticed the article isn't entirely correct
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We all have signed the pacts, we knew so well nothing was left
We are being born at the sound of ends, and yes we still believe in beauty
It used to be the pride of Man, now a flame put out by the cold in his hand

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The governmental report into the Christchurch Mosque attack was released today. Fairly typical governmental fare, literally nothing could have been done to stop him, nobody really failed at anything- well, except for all the stuff governmental entities failed to do to stop him that they should have but didn't. But we really, really need more spies and a new anti terrorism agency! Ironic, considering what 'terrorism' in New Zealand has consisted of*. Quite how he could not have been stopped when the police flagrantly failed to follow the rules when doing the vetting for his firearms licence check is not really apparent; referees are meant to be a close family member and a close friend/ colleague who knows you well and he managed to get away with providing neither, instead it was a gaming friend and one of their parents (!)

(Having been involved in firearms licence checks I know exactly what happened. They use retired police officers to check the referees as a bit of a low energy low effort post retirement perk, and they are, frankly, awful at the job. You'd get a more probing interview as a 4 year old from your kindergarten teacher trying to find out your favourite colour. The guy I talked to for my dad's firearm licence last time both provided the questions and answered them for me (!) and if that is an exaggeration it's a very slight one. Pretty much the entire time was spent with him having a cup of tea and biscuits and chatting about the garden and rugby)

*Past forty years: one Australian shooting muslims that could have been stopped by the police enforcing the rules, French DGSE officers blowing up a Greenpeace boat and murdering a cameraman, and a bunch of maori running larp camps in the Ureweras that ended up having more apologies made from the police than convictions, and those convictions being made on technical non terrorism grounds for that matter.

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Zzzzz..... 😵

 

Come on guys... you (the UK) don't want to be in the EU and the EU can't wait to get rid of you. Get the foot out of the door and close it already. Then start making new deals without the time pressure maybe??? This has been going on even longer than Covid 😖

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55240910

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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22 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Zzzzz..... 😵

 

Come on guys... you (the UK) don't want to be in the EU and the EU can't wait to get rid of you. Get the foot out of the door and close it already. Then start making new deals without the time pressure maybe??? This has been going on even longer than Covid 😖

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55240910

 

I wouldnt quite frame BREXIT like that, many people didnt want the UK to leave the EU and appreciate  the UK and its contribution and what it gains from the  EU

The EU loves the UK because of factors like all the money the English spend 

But if you have achieved no deal you must consider the real economic consequences from 1 January 2021 if they dont find common ground on a BREXIT deal, you will have no trade and tariffs agreements between the UK and EU for all goods and economic  flow

That means WTO general trade agreements which doesnt address anything close to the EU single market access....this will initially hurt both the EU and the UK but both will survive and become stronger. But its going to be 2-3 years of tumultuous economic growth until the UK negotiates new trade deals 

 

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

I wouldnt quite frame BREXIT like that, many people didnt want the UK to leave the EU and appreciate  the UK and its contribution and what it gains from the  EU

Hey, I was living in England at the time, remember? Brexit was the main reason for me leaving the country. The antipathy towards EU citizens were tangible, even though most of the ire and rhetoric was directed towards the large numbers of Polish immigrants (there were so many that Polish is the second most spoken language in England today). Having an idea of how messy the whole thing could get, I moved back to Australia 6 months after the referendum. But I did follow all the sometimes heated arguments for and against and a lot of the rhetoric, sometimes up close and personal at the time, being there and being affected by it ;)

 

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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It's not only the usual suspects doing it....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-55232432

 

A dead professor and numerous defunct organisations were resurrected and used alongside at least 750 fake media outlets in a vast 15-year global disinformation campaign to serve Indian interests, a new investigation has revealed.

The man whose identity was stolen was regarded as one of the founding fathers of international human rights law, who died aged 92 in 2006.

"It is the largest network we have exposed," said Alexandre Alaphilippe, executive director of EU DisinfoLab, which undertook the investigation and published an extensive report on Wednesday.

The network was designed primarily to "discredit Pakistan internationally" and influence decision-making at the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) and European Parliament, EU DisinfoLab said.

EU DisinfoLab partially exposed the network last year but now says the operation is much larger and more resilient than it first suspected.

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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7 hours ago, Malcador said:

Yeah. No end to the friends money can buy 😛

The disputed region of West Sahara is apparently quite rich in oil. Wouldn't that make Israel and the US the only two countries in the world recognizing Morocco's claim on it?

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Switzerland.... the country famous for its mercenary activities (even more so than its cheese)

 

I wonder how much China is paying for this kind of access to just swoop in and retrieve people? At least the CIA does it covertly when it abducts people and hide them in secret prisons around the world 🤔

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/12/11/china-to-renew-secret-deal-with-switzerland-over-nationals


"Switzerland gave Chinese security agents free run inside its borders and the rest of Europe for five years as part of a secretive immigration agreement between the two countries, according to human rights watchdog Safeguard Defenders.

While the agreement officially expired this week, Safeguard Defenders warned that it was up for renewal in a report released on Thursday."

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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12 minutes ago, Elerond said:

We can just close borders from them, as there is clearly no need to follow EU's agreements 😉

They do seem to be going against some of  the basic human rights laws that exist within the EU and are mandatory for all member states 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Problem is that the EU has problems with sanctioning them. Also there is quite a bit of a pro-EU movement blooming up, and hammering hungary with harsh sanctions could hurt them in the long term.

It's a real crappy problem that makes me glad I'm not a politician, because I have no idea how something like this can be solved in a non-crappy way.

Edited by Lexx

"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

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The biggest problem seems to be that often enough the EU needs an unanimous vote. It's pretty difficult to sanction members if said members have a say in this. 🤷‍♂️

On the other hand Greece and Italy got bullied around plenty when they had economical issues - so maybe there is a way to rap those rule breakers over the knuckles...?

Gotta ask my wife, she's an expert on all things EU (I still don't get why you want to be that though ;)).

 

Edited by Boeroer

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Poland and Hungary are pretty much blocking for each other, which in hindsight is hilarious that this alone works and is able to grind the whole EU mechanism to a halt.

"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

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