Politics 2020 - the gift that keeps giving

[Gromnir]

19 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/515244-dhs-to-label-white-supremacists-as-the-most-persistent-and-lethal

"“We judge that ideologically-motivated lone offenders and small groups will pose the greatest terrorist threat to the Homeland through 2021, with white supremacist extremists presenting the most lethal threat,” it adds."

Not BLM and Antifa? Someone's about to lose their job.

the problem is those conclusions have been consistent for years and years. last year and year before are unlikely to be any more meaningful than this year. would have been more curious if this year were sudden reaching a different conclusion. but yeah, given how this administration handles bad press, or any failure to embrace the administration narrative, it would hardly be a surprise if multiple people lost jobs.

'course administration folks also lose their jobs for spreading the same lies as the President and william barr. two spokespersons at the fda recent took the hit for the premature convalescent plasma announcement. is possible two political appointee with no medical backgrounds concocted the convalescent plasma announcement and managed to snooker the head o' the fda and the President into championing the news immediate previous to the start o' the rnc. likely? 

is refreshing to know there is still folks in the executive branch who is diligent doing their jobs regardless o' the possible consequences. 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

I doubt that. Just another examples of politics interfering with researchers and science. There are numerous fields you cannot even touch or publish results that are nkt in line with political correctness because you will be fired even though you just want to genuinely conduct a research on a subject without any underlying biases. 

Also the point becomes a strawman argument because you  could unintentionally ignore the violence and anarchy, after a debate around this,  we have seen Antifa commit because the current statistics say " right wing attacks are the worst " 

Right wing violence must be addressed and so must the violence perpetuated by the likes of Antifa, these are not mutually exclusive and I cant see anyone's job being impacted by this data ?

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, Maedhros said:

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/515244-dhs-to-label-white-supremacists-as-the-most-persistent-and-lethal

"“We judge that ideologically-motivated lone offenders and small groups will pose the greatest terrorist threat to the Homeland through 2021, with white supremacist extremists presenting the most lethal threat,” it adds."

Not BLM and Antifa? Someone's about to lose their job.

Well, they have been reporting about white supremacists in the cops and military (the Marines that liked using SS imagery for some reason), latter also has issues with gangs. 

History Channel is to blame for this, all the Nazi crap they showed in the 90s snd 00s

[HoonDing]

You got some very fine people among the KKK, Proud Boys and Aryan Nations.

[Orogun01]

39 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

You got some very fine people among the KKK, Proud Boys and Aryan Nations.

Daryl Davis seems to think so, you might have heard of him as the black blues musician that de-radicalizes KKK members by....talking to them.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

You got some very fine people among the KKK, Proud Boys and Aryan Nations.

[Guard Dog]

[ComradeYellow]

8 hours ago, Maedhros said:

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/515244-dhs-to-label-white-supremacists-as-the-most-persistent-and-lethal

"“We judge that ideologically-motivated lone offenders and small groups will pose the greatest terrorist threat to the Homeland through 2021, with white supremacist extremists presenting the most lethal threat,” it adds."

Not BLM and Antifa? Someone's about to lose their job.

"Russia “probably will be the primary covert foreign influence actor and purveyor of disinformation and misinformation in the Homeland,” 

 They just can't help themselves.  Millions of poor, homeless, people with no future under the abandonment of the neo lib establishment and but everything of course is Russia's fault.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, HoonDing said:

You got some very fine people among the KKK, Proud Boys and Aryan Nations.

all god's children deserve a chance at redemption... unless they are part of blm, or they happen to share the same god/faith as terrorists. if they is radical democrats like biden, then they are heretics and burning at the stake is probable too good for 'em. 

axiom: dallas cowboy fans are beyond redemption.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Orogun01]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

all god's children deserve a chance at redemption... unless they are part of blm, or they happen to share the same god/faith as terrorists. if they is radical democrats like biden, then they are heretics and burning at the stake is probable too good for 'em. 

axiom: dallas cowboy fans are beyond redemption.

HA! Good Fun!

 

I think it comes down to which group is actively seeking harm. Right now is BLM and the Democrats, back during 9/11 it was radical Islamic. Before that it was your Timothy McVeigh and your Ted Kaczynski. Honestly as usual I don't know what the point of your post is, if you're trying to be funny you're failing. If you're being contrarian congratulations, I would completely disregard your opinion as just that if it wasn't for the occasional gem.

[ComradeYellow]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

I believe this is an age old law of political discourse that is perfectly applicable...during war

 

3 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

I think it comes down to which group is actively seeking harm. Right now is BLM and the Democrats, back during 9/11 it was radical Islamic. 

The far right is equally guilty of "seeking harm", the problem I have with this alt-right vs. BLM/antifa thingy is that it's more of a race war than a class war.  The 2 party dictatorship and those who actually wield power are laughing at this **** show and are cooking up ways to take our rights away as a consequence.

The establishment wants a race war to avoid a class war.

[Orogun01]

It seems amid the pandemic, the floods and the economic downturn Xi Jingping is forcefully trying to maintain his position.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/xi-jinping-undertakes-fresh-round-of-brutal-purge-in-china/articleshow/77943864.cms

[Darkpriest]

Seems it becomes a meme, that Joe reads prompter hints out loud during his press confs. 

[Malcador]

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/multiple-boats-in-distress-sinking-at-trump-boat-parade-on-lake-travis

Doesn't seem anyone was hurt, so is kind of funny.

[Gromnir]

is curious how discriminating an appeal for compassion may be given the ideology o' the individual pleading for understanding. exclude any you fear? well that's not very christian. is also curious how the the discrimination (denotative) ignores what is the cautions from experts on domestic threats. @Maedhros linked what is conclusions from dhs, conclusions which has been annual carbon copy identifications o' "white supremacist extremists" as the most worthy o' the Domestic Violent Extremists label. 

‘We Are Being Eaten From Within.’ Why America Is Losing the Battle Against White Nationalist Terrorism

"Since 9/11, white supremacists and other far-right extremists have been responsible for almost three times as many attacks on U.S. soil as Islamic terrorists, the government reported. From 2009 through 2018, the far right has been responsible for 73% of domestic extremist-related fatalities, according to a 2019 study by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). And the toll is growing. More people–49–were murdered by far-right extremists in the U.S. last year than in any other year since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995."

those domestic violent extremists deserve our compassion and understanding. talk to them.

'course if you are a member o' blm...

worse, if you are o' the same religion as isis terrorists, compassion is in short supply. those white supremacists dhs says oro should be more concerned 'bout is almost universal evangelical christian. as a matter o' fact, white supremacist religious fundamentalism is core to their beliefs and hate o' the adherents o' other religions such as papists and jews. much as islamic fundamentalists pervert the teachings o their faith so that it has for them a meaning complete different than more moderate believers o', so to do white supremacists use christianity to excuse their utter disregard for christian teachings. if the muslim faith produces existential fear in oro and others 'cause o' the actions o' the fundamentalists who has hijacked the core tenets o' the religion, then the pass christianity gets in spite o' the more immediate and likely danger from white supremacists is not rational. is in fact, bigotry.

Editorial: 75 years later, looking back at The Times’ shameful response to the Japanese internment

“This is war. And in wartime, the preservation of the nation becomes the first duty. Everything must be subordinated to that. Every necessary precaution must be taken to insure reasonable safety from spies and saboteurs so that our armed forces can function adequately and our industrial machinery may continue to work free from peril.”

And this:

“The time has come to realize that the rigors of war demand proper detention of Japanese and their immediate removal from the most acute danger spots. It is not a pleasant task. But it must be done and done now. There is no safe alternative.”

And this, a year or so later, when some people were calling for the release of those who had been interned:

“As a race, the Japanese have made for themselves a record for conscienceless treachery unsurpassed in history. Whatever small theoretical advantages there might be in releasing those under restraint in this country would be enormously outweighed by the risks involved.”

japanese internment were popular. in fact, a gallup poll at the time had better than 50% of respondents saying that even after the conflict with japan were ended, those interned japanese should not be allowed to return to their homes.

is no surprise trump and barr is using the language o' insurrection to describe blm protesters. it worked in 1942 because people were afraid.

korematsu has been been the most consistent derided SCOTUS decision since dred scott. nevertheless, the trump administration attempted to use it as authority for their early attempts at a muslim ban.

so make the same mistake and surrender to fear.

inter arma enim silent leges 

in 2016 it were non-american muslims and immigrants from beyond our southern border who generated panic and fear in the trump base. this year is radical democrats and blm supporters. how much longer before we run out of people not part o' the trump base who is worthy o' oro's discriminating sense o' compassion?

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

I have to say I'm warming up to your wall o' texts @Gromnir, great post. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Orogun01]

19 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

is curious how discriminating an appeal for compassion may be given the ideology o' the individual pleading for understanding. exclude any you fear? well that's not very christian. is also curious how the the discrimination (denotative) ignores what is the cautions from experts on domestic threats. @Maedhros linked what is conclusions from dhs, conclusions which has been annual carbon copy identifications o' "white supremacist extremists" as the most worthy o' the Domestic Violent Extremists label. 

‘We Are Being Eaten From Within.’ Why America Is Losing the Battle Against White Nationalist Terrorism

"Since 9/11, white supremacists and other far-right extremists have been responsible for almost three times as many attacks on U.S. soil as Islamic terrorists, the government reported. From 2009 through 2018, the far right has been responsible for 73% of domestic extremist-related fatalities, according to a 2019 study by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). And the toll is growing. More people–49–were murdered by far-right extremists in the U.S. last year than in any other year since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995."

those domestic violent extremists deserve our compassion and understanding. talk to them.

'course if you are a member o' blm...

worse, if you are o' the same religion as isis terrorists, compassion is in short supply. those white supremacists dhs says oro should be more concerned 'bout is almost universal evangelical christian. as a matter o' fact, white supremacist religious fundamentalism is core to their beliefs and hate o' the adherents o' other religions such as papists and jews. much as islamic fundamentalists pervert the teachings o their faith so that it has for them a meaning complete different than more moderate believers o', so to do white supremacists use christianity to excuse their utter disregard for christian teachings. if the muslim faith produces existential fear in oro and others 'cause o' the actions o' the fundamentalists who has hijacked the core tenets o' the religion, then the pass christianity gets in spite o' the more immediate and likely danger from white supremacists is not rational. is in fact, bigotry.

Editorial: 75 years later, looking back at The Times’ shameful response to the Japanese internment

“This is war. And in wartime, the preservation of the nation becomes the first duty. Everything must be subordinated to that. Every necessary precaution must be taken to insure reasonable safety from spies and saboteurs so that our armed forces can function adequately and our industrial machinery may continue to work free from peril.”

And this:

“The time has come to realize that the rigors of war demand proper detention of Japanese and their immediate removal from the most acute danger spots. It is not a pleasant task. But it must be done and done now. There is no safe alternative.”

And this, a year or so later, when some people were calling for the release of those who had been interned:

“As a race, the Japanese have made for themselves a record for conscienceless treachery unsurpassed in history. Whatever small theoretical advantages there might be in releasing those under restraint in this country would be enormously outweighed by the risks involved.”

japanese internment were popular. in fact, a gallup poll at the time had better than 50% of respondents saying that even after the conflict with japan were ended, those interned japanese should not be allowed to return to their homes.

is no surprise trump and barr is using the language o' insurrection to describe blm protesters. it worked in 1942 because people were afraid.

korematsu has been been the most consistent derided SCOTUS decision since dred scott. nevertheless, the trump administration attempted to use it as authority for their early attempts at a muslim ban.

so make the same mistake and surrender to fear.

inter arma enim silent leges 

in 2016 it were non-american muslims and immigrants from beyond our southern border who generated panic and fear in the trump base. this year is radical democrats and blm supporters. how much longer before we run out of people not part o' the trump base who is worthy o' oro's discriminating sense o' compassion?

HA! Good Fun!

The difference is that the Portland DA would happily throw the book at far right terrorists, meanwhile BLM and Antifa are not being charged. It is the extent to which our institutions have been subverted by leftist foreign organizations that should be the concern. Not a numbers comparison between right and left wing.
You mention my sense of compassion, I will ask: would you let a self avowed pedophile run amok children just because he's never been charged with any crime? I choose this example because pedophiles are still we are still able to repudiate without repercussion. So if the threat of danger is present would you let foreign paid inciters corrupt the youth and create chaos.
This isn't about compassion is about values and survival, if the end result is a Chinese global hegemony then **** your sense of compassion. The CCP has none.

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

This isn't about compassion is about values and survival, if the end result is a Chinese global hegemony then **** your sense of compassion. The CCP has none.

serious? you gotta realize how such stuff sounds, yes? the radical dems and blm protesters is causing you this level o' terror?

your conspiracy theories 'bout the different treatment o' far-right protesters vs blm aside, comparing an "avowed" pedophile to blm protesters?

...

...

okie dokie.

btw, we would investigate the avowed pedophile, but we would not exclude from the US anybody who happened to share his faith. we also wouldn't arrest (and not charge so as to avoid civil rights protections) anybody even remote related to the pedophile if we somehow did eventual find legal sufficient evidence he/she were a pedophile. heck, we wouldn't arrest the avowed pedophile 'cause such would actual be risking eventual conviction w/o at least some evidence. bring the guy in for questioning, with his lawyer, and investigate the claims.

alternative:

you have bought into the fear. your fear is cartoony save for the fact it is obvious genuine. when scalia warned 'bout the possibility o' the Government engaging in korematsu-like behaviour, we took him serious, but we were expecting some future threat and we woulda' imagined a menace similar to ww2 and the fear generated by the shock o' pearl harbor. portland protests is what you has making the leap to the "chinese global hegemony"?  chrysippus is wondering 'bout the steps you obvious leapt past to reach your conclusion. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

16 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

serious? you gotta realize how such stuff sounds, yes? the radical dems and blm protesters is causing you this level o' terror?

your conspiracy theories 'bout the different treatment o' far-right protesters vs blm aside, comparing an "avowed" pedophile to blm protesters?

...

...

okie dokie.

btw, we would investigate the avowed pedophile, but we would not exclude from the US anybody who happened to share his faith. we also wouldn't arrest (and not charge so as to avoid civil rights protections) anybody even remote related to the pedophile if we somehow did eventual find legal sufficient evidence he/she were a pedophile. heck, we wouldn't arrest the avowed pedophile 'cause such would actual be risking eventual conviction w/o at least some evidence. bring the guy in for questioning, with his lawyer, and investigate the claims.

alternative:

you have bought into the fear. your fear is cartoony save for the fact it is obvious genuine. when scalia warned 'bout the possibility o' the Government engaging in korematsu-like behaviour, we took him serious, but we were expecting some future threat and we woulda' imagined a menace similar to ww2 and the fear generated by the shock o' pearl harbor. portland protests is what you has making the leap to the "chinese global hegemony"?  chrysippus is wondering 'bout the steps you obvious leapt past to reach your conclusion. 

HA! Good Fun!

Right because the KGB didn't fund through the American Communist party Hollywood films that promoted leftist ideologies. Because Russia didn't take over Afghanistan through a coup by a dissident party. Because while we are focusing on maintaining the Petrodollar, China is funding Africa and Latin America, essentially gaining a monopoly on precious minerals that are essential for electronics. Meanwhile we contend with extreme leftists that would happily welcome Chinese communism, no surprise that college professors have been caught taking money from the CCP.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it is a bunch of coincidences until a Trump administration releases a report. Then it is fake because you don't like Trump and can't be bothered to educate yourself.

Edit: Also what kind of ****ing moron goes and says unmarked cars and secret police when they are clearly wearing an uniforms, why don't you show the whole video where those innocent civilians were attacking federal property.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Orogun01

[Gromnir]

10 minutes ago, Orogun01 said:

stuff

lordy. no pizzagate reference? am almost disappointed.

our mistake was failing to realize that the real threat all along were gozer the destroyer. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps the people arrested as often as not were arrested w/o probable cause. is possible some did actual destroy property? sure. 'course the fed had no authority to arrest them when, where and how they did. as so few were actual charged we will never know how many arrested committed property damage. 

oh, and have you ever seen military surplus stores? any clown may outfit themselves similar to the ferds in their unmarked vans who did not tell the individuals arrested what they were being charged with when thrown into the unmarked vans.

everything 'bout the situation were illegal and am knowing we shared with you the rehnquist quote, so you know it were all illegal... but you don't care. you are afraid. the chinese global hegemony which is the inevitable result o' blm protests (HA!) has you frightened enough that you don't care if what is being done is unconstitutional or even immoral. you are afraid, just as americans were afraid in 1942. 

same fear. same mistakes. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Gromnir

[MedicineDan]

This place never fails to entertain.  BLM isn't the problem.  BLM is a symptom of the problem.  That goes for Trump also.  We're simply at a crossroads.  Biden represents the forces of chaos.  To be fair, I don't believe Biden himself advocates or desires chaos.  Biden desires power.  A politician of... what?  almost fifty years?  Third presidential run?  I've always heard, from pundits and politicians speaking and writing in the media, that Biden is an affable guy.  A real glad hander.  I don't personally have anything against him, but he's going to do and say whatever it takes to get elected.  Trump is kind of chaotic, but his brand  of chaos isn't as far reaching.

I also appreciate the red herring of right wing militia being the source of crime and murder in our country.  Sure.  I mean, I have no doubt the folks here are certain of that fact.  Statistically, it's silly.  I've been seeing that assessment for years and it transcends ridiculous, shoots right past sublime, to an almost religious experience in its surreal glory.  Murder and mayhem in any great measure does not stem from right wing militia.  It doesn't stem from the police.  I would think people who want to find real solutions would focus on the real problems.

Anyhow, getting away from the partisan hackery that is this place... echo... echo... echoooooo.  I'm truly curious as to what's going to happen this cycle.  As folks know, I'm not frightened to make predictions and stand by them.  This election is different.  I think it's foolish for Trump supporters to discount the polls.  Generally, they're pretty good.  However, he did manage to outperform his polls last time.  it wasn't as much as people claimed after the fact, but he did.  The thing is, I know the pollsters are trying to adjust in order to be more accurate.  On the other hand, there's reason to believe the polls are even more screwy this time.  I don't know.  My gut tells me that it's still Biden's to lose.  He's a dotard and an unscrupulous, but I think the Trump hating inertia is actually quite strong. Look at this place where people I once thought were at least intellectually honest have thrown all pretense away and are now hackneyed partisan.  That hate has burned both ways for a long time, but it's strong and it could carry the day.

Having said that I think it's Biden's race right now, I will say this:  if you lose, if the American people refuse the forces of chaos and destruction, it will be after you've thrown *everything* at our side.  This is it.  We have not had an election like this in our lifetimes.  That's not hyperbole.  That's life in 2020.

 

EDIT:  Freudian slip.  He must first get elected.

Edited September 6, 2020 by MedicineDan

[Gromnir]

3 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

 

Look at this place where people I once thought were at least intellectually honest have thrown all pretense away and are now hackneyed partisan. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

20 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

This place never fails to entertain.  BLM isn't the problem.  BLM is a symptom of the problem.  That goes for Trump also.  We're simply at a crossroads.  Biden represents the forces of chaos.  To be fair, I don't believe Biden himself advocates or desires chaos.  Biden desires power.  A politician of... what?  almost fifty years?  Third presidential run?  I've always heard, from pundits and politicians speaking and writing in the media, that Biden is an affable guy.  A real glad hander.  I don't personally have anything against him, but he's going to do and say whatever it takes to get elected.  Trump is kind of chaotic, but his brand  of chaos isn't as far reaching.

I also appreciate the red herring of right wing militia being the source of crime and murder in our country.  Sure.  I mean, I have no doubt the folks here are certain of that fact.  Statistically, it's silly.  I've been seeing that assessment for years and it transcends ridiculous, shoots right past sublime, to an almost religious experience in its surreal glory.  Murder and mayhem in any great measure does not stem from right wing militia.  It doesn't stem from the police.  I would think people who want to find real solutions would focus on the real problems.

Anyhow, getting away from the partisan hackery that is this place... echo... echo... echoooooo.  I'm truly curious as to what's going to happen this cycle.  As folks know, I'm not frightened to make predictions and stand by them.  This election is different.  I think it's foolish for Trump supporters to discount the polls.  Generally, they're pretty good.  However, he did manage to outperform his polls last time.  it wasn't as much as people claimed after the fact, but he did.  The thing is, I know the pollsters are trying to adjust in order to be more accurate.  On the other hand, there's reason to believe the polls are even more screwy this time.  I don't know.  My gut tells me that it's still Biden's to lose.  He's a dotard and an unscrupulous, but I think the Trump hating inertia is actually quite strong. Look at this place where people I once thought were at least intellectually honest have thrown all pretense away and are now hackneyed partisan.  That hate has burned both ways for a long time, but it's strong and it could carry the day.

Having said that I think it's Biden's race right now, I will say this:  if you lose, if the American people refuse the forces of chaos and destruction, it will be after you've thrown *everything* at our side.  This is it.  We have not had an election like this in our lifetimes.  That's not hyperbole.  That's life in 2020.

 

EDIT:  Freudian slip.  He must first get elected.

Don't despair buddy, people are usually decent when they're within hitting distance.

[Agiel]

To cheer things up (well, at least it brought a great big smile to my face):

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, MedicineDan said:

I also appreciate the red herring of right wing militia being the source of crime and murder in our country.  Sure.  I mean, I have no doubt the folks here are certain of that fact.

What ?