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Politics 2020 - the gift that keeps giving


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5 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Saw the opposite described: there was a first encounter, he was being chased and attacked before shooting in self-defense (where he said "I just killed someone" after calling 9/11), and then there was a second encounter (the video that I saw) where he shot at several people that were trying to lynch him. I'd be more than happy to be corrected, but it's literally what I'm reading right now in the wikipedia article. Regarding favoritism: I am absolutely of the opinion that there's an issue of institutional racism and favoritism, buuuuut...that has nothing to do with the micro-details of this particular case and whether he should be convicted or acquitted.

From what I've read there was a six minute gap in footage between Rittenhouse leaving the car dealership he was guarding and being chased for the first time. I'm going to suspect there was something that happened in those six minutes that we will either see or hear about over the coming months.

Regarding favoritism, I'm referring to how Rittenhouse was treated by cops the day of the shooting (unharassed and given water bottles by a cop in a tank) and the court (he didn't show up for his hearing and got an extension, evidently with no penalty) when compared to most other people. Given what was the spark of the riots and protests, it suggests quite a bit.

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Extensions happen all the time (without penalty). I believe judges only get harsh with delays/extensions if it is clear the side asking for them is abusing the option. Most other people - even those with guns - ar enot bothered by police during these riots. Entire groups with guns are untouched by police. Didnh't a lftie group that a mass of guns shoot another of their own group? The police didn't do a thing. I am not even sure if that person who accidently pulled the trigger in that case as even arrested let alone talked to by police. L0L

 

Seems to me you are playing 'favoritism' by ignoring blatant cases of the police treating others exactly like Rittenhouse was. He wasn't deemed a threat by the police so they ignored him. Just like the 'racist' Rittenhouse ignored the black guy that was near him and instead shot 3 white guys. I wonder why this racist would shoot white people but not a black person. Hmm... I wonder why. Oh yeah, I know. the black guy was just standing there. The others were trying to murder him.

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12 minutes ago, Volourn said:

Extensions happen all the time (without penalty). I believe judges only get harsh with delays/extensions if it is clear the side asking for them is abusing the option. Most other people - even those with guns - ar enot bothered by guns. Entire groups with guns are untouched by police. Didnh't a lftie group that a mass of guns shoot another of their own group? The police didn't do a thing. I am not even sure if that person who accidently pulled the trigger in that case as even arrested let alone talked to by police. L0L

 

Seems to me you are playing 'favoritism' by ignoring blatant cases of the police treating others exactly like Rittenhouse was. He wasn't deemed a threat by the police so they ignored him. Just like the 'racist' Rittenhouse ignored the black guy that was near him and instead shot 3 white guys. I wonder why this racist would shoot white people but not a black person. Hmm... I wonder why. Oh yeah, I know. the black guy was just standing there. The others were trying to murder him.

volo you make a very important point, you definitely cant say he is a  racist, right-winger motivated by right wing ideology  if he shot 3 white people....surly ?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

As distasteful and stupid as I find open-carrying a rifle to be (especially in the middle of a riot), I would not consider it to be a clear and present threat to anyone else that would require attempting to attack and disarm him (most likely the minimum of what they intended to do to him in the first encounter - after the first shooting, of course, they seemed to be clearly out for blood).

Think most people would assume that anyone with a weapon in a riot is a danger - the security guy that disarmed the kid with an AR-15 in Seattle did, for example .   Is an incredibly stupid thing to do, as when he shoots someone, not everyone is watching to get a full grasp of situation.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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But, that's weird. Plenty of guns have been brought to riots from people on both sides. So, your assumption about assumptions isn't exactly accurate. It also depends on the alws in the state and/or city the riot/protests is taking place. In some areas, people may be used to seeing someone with a gun and in others not so much.

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I'm wondering why they always bring assault rifles in what always appears to be packed close up encounters.

Any gun expert will tell you that literally all you need in a lethal self defense situation is a small 38. ACP concealed in your pocket and only about 5-7 rounds loaded in it.

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

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Some pistol might be more practical, but it misses the point. They are, at heart, larping as a Basij in some Wisconsin town, whole point is to prominently carry a big gun to let everyone there know you're packing heat.

If they could get hold of an M2 they'd probably make a F150 technical and drive around in that as well.

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Literally all you need for self defense.  You can fit it in your swim short pockets.

But then again, real men don't posture and go looking for trouble so of course this whole protest and being armed to the teeth situation is a bit over my head.

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

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Police shoot 13-year-old boy with autism several times after mother calls for help

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    Golda Barton told KUTV she called 911 to request a crisis intervention team because her son, who has Asperger’s syndrome, was having an episode caused by “bad separation anxiety” as his mother went to work for the first time in more than a year. “I said, ‘He’s unarmed, he doesn’t have anything, he just gets mad and he starts yelling and screaming,’” she said. “He’s a kid, he’s trying to get attention, he doesn’t know how to regulate.”

    She added: “They’re supposed to come out and be able to de-escalate a situation using the most minimal force possible.” Instead, she said, two officers went through the front door of the home and in less than five minutes were yelling “get down on the ground” before firing several shots.

    In a briefing on Sunday, Sgt Keith Horrocks of Salt Lake City police told reporters officers were responding to reports “a juvenile was having a mental episode” and thought Cameron “had made threats to some folks with a weapon”.

 

:shrugz:

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Surprised the mother would call for cops, is almost predictable that they'd just reach for the Glock.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Exactly. Police are not equipped to deal with this. Theya re trained to kill anyone who doesn't obey them. PERIOD.

 

Do not call police to 'help'  you to deal with problematic family members. They aren't there to help in peaceful ways.

 

They get the call, they will use violence for giggles.

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Which is why I'm a little concerned going out target shooting here even in a perfectly legal manner.  I'm afraid some idiot is going to call the cops over 'suspicious repetitive gunfire' they here and send a cop in to investigate my discharging, I do not live in the south so there's bound to be some anti-gun snobs kicking around.  I mean what the Hell am I supposed to do in that situation?  We both have loaded guns and I'm legally shooting and someone comes up on me like that, my first reaction is going to be "F you!" which could lead to my untimely death.

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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1 hour ago, Volourn said:

Exactly. Police are not equipped to deal with this. Theya re trained to kill anyone who doesn't obey them. PERIOD.

 

Do not call police to 'help'  you to deal with problematic family members. They aren't there to help in peaceful ways.

 

They get the call, they will use violence for giggles.

Apropos in Toronto some cop wore a Punisher skull with "I am the sheepdog" -https://www.680news.com/2020/09/08/toronto-officer-asked-to-remove-controversial-skull-patch-from-uniform/

Cops like this think they're some sort of soldier. :lol:

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, ComradeMaster said:

Which is why I'm a little concerned going out target shooting here even in a perfectly legal manner.  I'm afraid some idiot is going to call the cops over 'suspicious repetitive gunfire' they here and send a cop in to investigate my discharging, I do not live in the south so there's bound to be some anti-gun snobs kicking around.  I mean what the Hell am I supposed to do in that situation?  We both have loaded guns and I'm legally shooting and someone comes up on me like that, my first reaction is going to be "F you!" which could lead to my untimely death.

You could try preemptively contacting your PD and tell them you will be shooting in that area. If they tell you no ask them where it would be a good place to shoot. I usually get good results when I treat cops like human beings in general.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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Yes because cops have a truly solid track record of 'human being' behavior especially recently. :lol:

I think I'll take my chances.  Take a walk on wild side.

'He who seeks to defend everything, defends nothing."

King Frederick the Great of Prussia

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24 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

Yes because cops have a truly solid track record of 'human being' behavior especially recently. :lol:

I think I'll take my chances.  Take a walk on wild side.

...Look dude you cant get shot to death over the phone and it will really let them know what kind of situation they're walking into if they get a complaint. I get you're being funny and facetious but if it will keep you safe, it's just less than a 10 minute call and it will save you a lot of trouble. Just stay safe.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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19 minutes ago, Volourn said:

If he is doing some legal he doesn't need permission from coppers. LMAO

It not about permission is about avoiding misunderstandings, you communicate ahead of time  so that there's an established agreement. But feel free to do whatever you want, I'm a  big believer in social eugenics

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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"so that there's an established agreement. "

 

Odd. There's already an 'established agreement'. It's called the law. If the law gives him the permission to do something he doesn't need to phone the police. That makes absolutely no sense.

Phoning the police to tell them you are doing something legal is a waste of the police time and resources. That call time should be them spending time on pursing those who are breaking the law. 

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3 minutes ago, Volourn said:

"so that there's an established agreement. "

 

Odd. There's already an 'established agreement'. It's called the law. If the law gives him the permission to do something he doesn't need to phone the police. That makes absolutely no sense.

Phoning the police to tell them you are doing something legal is a waste of the police time and resources. That call time should be them spending time on pursing those who are breaking the law. 

volo you should do anything reasonable possible to avoid confusion when the police arrive to investigate a disturbance.

The police are not the enemy and play an absolutely critical role in enforcing the rule of law and order which we all support because who wants to live in a lawless society. A phone call takes 3-5 minutes and shouldnt be seen as a laborious task  to do

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Looks like Russian intelligence services may have miscalculated a bit... Angela Merkel has something Boris Johnson doesn't have... clout. And Euros of course. Sweet, sweet Euros

 

Which means leverage, that the British government wished it had last time someone got poisoned by Novishock (sp?)

 

It was one short sentence in a German Sunday newspaper. But for the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, it was potentially as damaging as an earthquake.

"I hope the Russians don't force us to change our position on Nord Stream 2," German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said, as the row with Moscow intensified over the poisoning of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54070046

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24 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Looks like Russian intelligence services may have miscalculated a bit... Angela Merkel has something Boris Johnson doesn't have... clout. And Euros of course. Sweet, sweet Euros

 

Which means leverage, that the British government wished it had last time someone got poisoned by Novishock (sp?)

 

It was one short sentence in a German Sunday newspaper. But for the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, it was potentially as damaging as an earthquake.

"I hope the Russians don't force us to change our position on Nord Stream 2," German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said, as the row with Moscow intensified over the poisoning of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54070046

I have been following this important development, Germany should do everything reasonably possible to not utilize any Russian energy and or commodities

Russia is constantly  in violation of numerous UN laws and regulations and its human rights record is truly appalling. One of the best and most  effective, albeit it can take years, ways to implement political change is both sanctions and economic punitive steps....people  involved in autocratic and dictatorial governments   really respond well when they suffer economically 

So what happened to  Navalny needs this type of response, hopefully Germany is able to follow through but its not there fault if they cant because there could be legitimate economic and legal reasons they not able to end this type of arrangement with Russia 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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