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Politics 2020 - the gift that keeps giving


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23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53971256

 

This is a very important development in the objective of ensuring a truly stable and prosperous ME

It also adds to the view that myself and many others support how there are now  2 " alliances "  in the ME with the Gulf States, Israel, other Arab countries (like Egypt ) and the USA on one side and Iran ( or rather the current hardliners who run the country ) Syria, Hamas and groups like Hezbollah on the other side 

This normalizing of relations between the UAE and Israel is a very positive step to achieving true peace in the ME.....unfortunately I can see   one more inevitable conflict in the ME to achieve this peace and the USA will  be a part of this and that is removal of the hardliner ideology that Iran has demonstrated over the last 20 years

It doesn't have to be a military solution but I consider the hardliners in Iran to be intransigent and therefore I cant realistically see another solution ?

 

18 minutes ago, Gorth said:

You got to be kidding me if you claim the wahhabist (sp?) regime in Riyadh is any less hardline and oppressive than the one in Teheran. They are flip sides of the same coin and trying to outdo each other in brutality. How many people are dying and starving in Yemen at the moment again?

Last time I checked, it was the Saudi coalition that was indiscriminatedly bombing civilians.

 

 

 

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@ Gorthfuscious, I added the post as a response to your previous post in the event you missed this comment as the the post was closed by Amentep 

 

There are no  real regimes in the ME that dont  have some kind of human rights abuses or have mistreated another group so if you judged the objective I mentioned on that then there would never be a solution to achieve peace and meaningful economic stability and transformation

But Saudi Arabia, which is a huge part of the objective, understands the importance of economic stability. They have played a huge part in helping the world and the USA in fighting Islamic extremism once they were targeted by AQ after 9/11 and they are the leaders and most influential country in OPEC which is critical to  most of the world needing a reliable source of oil

So yes, in a strange but difficult way to accept Saudi Arabia and there " alliance "  partners do offer the best way forward. The reality Gorthfuscious we have had decades of different ideological conflicts in the ME and now there is a possible  way forward that will benefit most of the  various groups and countries in the ME

Its worth supporting this latest alliance to see if it works?

Edited by BruceVC

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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There will never be full peace in the ME as long as Isreal exists and Islamists control the bulk of the countries. And, even after Isreal is no more, they'll just turn on each (as they already do). 

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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3 minutes ago, Volourn said:

There will never be full peace in the ME as long as Isreal exists and Islamists control the bulk of the countries. And, even after Isreal is no more, they'll just turn on each (as they already do). 

But we really need to be realistic about the  ME and what can be achieved, Israel is not going anywhere and most of the countries in the world are dependent on oil as a factor that drives there economies.

So our views on the way forward need to consider both these points if you want some kind of meaningful peace 

Also my definition of  " Islamist " groups is not the Gulf States but the likes of ISIS, AQ and  the Taliban. You can absolutely trade and work with the Gulf States, that include Saudi Arabia but you cannot work  with the likes of  ISIS 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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much in the post is inaccurate, but more important, with the memory o' a goldfish, you already forgot the gateway pundit claim you made. you had never heard o' it. 

sheesh.

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

The reality Gorthfuscious we have had decades of different ideological conflicts in the ME and now there is a possible  way forward that will benefit most of the  various groups and countries in the ME

Unless you are on the receiving end of carpet bombing, assassinations abroad (domestically people just "disappear"), a secret police that competes with the religious police in who can outdo the other in atrocities, a completely misogynistic society that has moved very little forward the last 600 years and a regime that supports both Isis and AQ financially and logistically (ignoring that they pay lip service to try to reduce that support). You might as well support the current government of Venezuela because of their great human rights record /sarcasm

 

I think we'll have to disagree on that one. Some things are NOT worth selling your soul to, especially with the oil prices being rock bottom anyway (and long may that last)

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Well, if you don't want to buy oil from Saudi, there's always Daesh. They have raving reviews from Assad and Erdogan's son, so obviously that shows that they are prospective trade partners worthy of allying with, and committed towards the stability of the ME, and not at all radical islamists bluh bluh bluh let the mental gymnastics olympics begin!

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DC Circuit court rules against Flynn case dismissal

an 8-2 en banc decision.

...

what that means is that the two appellate court judges who earlier ruled in favor o' flynn were the only dc appellate judges to agree with their previous decision. kinda the legal equivalent o' the b!atch slap.

'course a similar situation arose with the congressional subpoena o' mcgahn-- were a 7-2 smackdown in that case. on remand, the same two appellate judges fu'd the en banc decision and now we gotta go through the whole process again.

it is so easy to understand why people become frustrated with judges and the law.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 hours ago, 213374U said:

Well, if you don't want to buy oil from Saudi, there's always Daesh. They have raving reviews from Assad and Erdogan's son, so obviously that shows that they are prospective trade partners worthy of allying with, and committed towards the stability of the ME, and not at all radical islamists bluh bluh bluh let the mental gymnastics olympics begin!

Syria didn't buy oil from ISIS, much as now they got most of their oil from Iran for free or near free. They did have a tacit agreement where if ISIS kept supplying power stations with natural gas they'd not get cut off from the grid, and a few other things like state employees still being paid at the various dams ISIS held (still the case now too with the SDF).

Erdogan's son was knee deep in the oil trade with ISIS though, hence the Russians absolutely obliterating the fuel tanker stock in ISIS areas after Turkey shot down that Su24.

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Twitter Flags Donald Trump Campaign Response To Joe Biden Speech As “Manipulated Media”

trump can lie, cheat and steal and it don't matter to his supporters. 

oh, and to remind folks 'cause the rnc dog and pony show tried to make you forget...

White House privately warned states of Covid-19 ‘red zone’ threat, records show

if you are looking for a silver lining, at least the task force was providing states with useful guidelines and hard truths even if the President was publicly downplaying the threat and discouraging governors from following the task force guidance. 

win some. lose some.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

DC Circuit court rules against Flynn case dismissal

an 8-2 en banc decision.

...

what that means is that the two appellate court judges who earlier ruled in favor o' flynn were the only dc appellate judges to agree with their previous decision. kinda the legal equivalent o' the b!atch slap.

'course a similar situation arose with the congressional subpoena o' mcgahn-- were a 7-2 smackdown in that case. on remand, the same two appellate judges fu'd the en banc decision and now we gotta go through the whole process again.

it is so easy to understand why people become frustrated with judges and the law.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

As an aside; but still related to the topic, what are your thoughts on Roman (Coded) law vs Common law?

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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That guy is a total kook.

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2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

What kind of dip****s write this trash? Glad to have anti-javascript and adblock always enabled, at least.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

What kind of dip****s write this trash? Glad to have anti-javascript and adblock.

Well if he's using the pen name "Tyler Durden", probably an edgelord whose been grifting since the early 2000s and bases most of their politics based on whatever right-wing clique is coughing up cash.

Honestly I don't think there's (relatively) many people who will start supporting Trump after the recent riots. From what I've seen the majority of folks clamoring for the feds to assert "Law and Order" were already in the tank for Trump and a significant amount of others have a copypasta of how "BLM made me into a Marxist, I quit and registered Republican, will be giving Twitter a try". Voter suppression, covid, and apathy are likely bigger components of a Biden loss.

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I think some of you guys are underestimating the votes Trump will gain due to the protracted and unacceptable months of violence and anarchy we are seeing in certain  US cities

Of course the Trump campaign is going to focus on this and use it to gain support through both real and irrational fears and anxiety that many US  citizens feel around the argument "  Democrats dont about the rule of law and order " 

There is definitely degrees of false narrative from both parties around what BLM and the protests mean and both parties are guilty of sometimes politicizing the violence 

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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@KaineParker

Yeah, just to be clear, there is absolutely a good chance Biden doesn't win. That's not in any way guaranteed. The problem is the writer is a blatant hack. "NATE SILVER TWITTER MELTDOWN", "Nate Silver predicted Hillary would win!", "Nate Silver points out obvious criticisms with trash reporting and is therefore a hack", etc. Who do you think you're convincing (besides other already "very good"-brained people) when you write ridiculous tabloid-esque garbage like this in the face of all evidence and reason? Out of serious poll aggregators, 538 was the only one that gave Trump a chance (~30%, IIRC) and cautioned Democrats against presumptuously declaring victory - I literally remember looking at their model and them saying the exact thing that happened (that he'd be very unlikely to win the popular vote, but that there was nevertheless a realistic chance of a few close Trump victories in key swing states that would give him an electoral vote victory) could very well happen before it ever did. 30% is the equivalent of rolling a 1D10 and getting a 1, 2, or 3. Anyone who's ever rolled a die at any point in their life (or has even the most rudimentary understanding of statistics...which I guess is not nearly everyone these days) should know that that is not very unlikely at all.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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6 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I think some of you guys are underestimating the votes Trump will gain due to the protracted and unacceptable months of violence and anarchy we are seeing in certain  US cities

Of course the Trump campaign is going to focus on this and use it to gain support through both real and irrational fears and anxiety that many US  citizens feel around the argument "  Democrats dont about the rule of law and order " 

There is definitely degrees of false narrative from both parties around what BLM and the protests mean and both parties are guilty of sometimes politicizing the violence 

 

Some people are overstating the amount of "violence and anarchy", which is common from the outside of any place.

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26 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Some people are overstating the amount of "violence and anarchy", which is common from the outside of any place.

but we know they are overstating. we know trump is going to kenosha in the hope it will cause additional protests. we know fox news and the rnc will doctor images if they cannot get lurid enough content to make old people afraid. we know the trump campaign can lie, cheat and steal and not lose votes, so what is their motivation to stop the lies when the alternative is to need embrace and defend the reality of september 2020?

is ez to mock and ridicule the undereducated who is being targeted by the trump campaign. those undereducated people are registered voters.

old people is often afraid and they know they ain't as sharp as they once were, which is why is so contemptible how old people is targeted by internet and telemarketing scams. 

How Old Is the Average Fox News Viewer in America?

65 is the median age o' fox viewers, and at least a few o' those folks is undecided.

in a 2016 presidential race with terrible turnout, trump lost the popular vote by a near record number. with a pandemic to contend and orwellian efforts at voter suppression taking place in plain sight, it would not be shocking if 2020 voter turnout is also on the lowish side. 

trump won wisconsin by 22k votes. jill stein and gary johnson accounted for 140k votes. seeing such, is anybody shocked the republicans were pushing kanye to run for the Presidency? 

each lie and underhanded trump effort may appear paltry and impotent. nobody suspects the butterfly.

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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If voter turn out is low blame both candidates. It means people aren't motivated to vote and that is 100% on the candidates and their parties. PERIOD.

 

Also, the lefft should take personal responsibility. Blaming Trump for the riots when the dems ENCOURAGED the riots. This is what they wanted, but because it seems to be backfiring it's now 'all trump's fault'. No. You encouraged your followers to riot, to kill, to rape, to murder, to pillage, to assault. This is on YOU. 

 

Video in point: 

 

Edited by Volourn
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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Justice Department investigating BLM protest leaders, funding in Portland and other cities

is not as if Gromnir has a crystal ball. this kinda thing is predictable and is the reason blm doesn't have a real organization or leadership structure. authoritarian governments target group leadership to suppress the message, which is precise why hong kong protests has eschewed leadership. even so, we stated earlier how perhaps blm needs a face and a voice to combat the wh lies 'bout the protests and protesters, but this kinda concerted effort by the state is designed to discourage anybody from taking a leadership role. 

and vol clip which takes innumerable quotes outta context is hardly compelling.

we will however happily concede that folks like johnny depp should be ignored. celebrity is not conferring some kinda special social awareness or wisdom. 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Dude. The video isn't for you.  You are hardcore pro BLM and Antifa despite it being factual those groups murder people for giggles including the very black people they claim to want to protect.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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You can be displeased at delivery of the information, but you should not dismiss the content blindly based on that. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-01/jpmorgan-says-prepare-for-rising-chance-trump-wins-second-term?srnd=premium-europe

 

BTW. I would assume, that people posting on this board, are more interested in these topics and most likely also with greater general knowledge and possibly quite experience travelers or at least have been exposed to people of different origins. 

Ask yourself a question, how big percentage of the obs active community would this cover? What is your most common joe and jane that comprise the voter base, and what are their values amd worries? 

 

Who can sell the message of supporting their interests better? 

Democracy is by definition based on majorities, so how do you want to win, if you can be made an example of people, who would take away from majority and give to minorities, and do so in images of potential threat to property, values, beliefs etc? 

 

Edited by Darkpriest
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1 minute ago, Volourn said:

Dude. The video isn't for you.  You are hardcore pro BLM and Antifa despite it being factual those groups murder people for giggles including the very black people they claim to want to protect.

dude, if the only point o' the video is self-gratification, am gonna observe your kink is more than passing odd.

also, while am ambivalent about blm (am thinking their lack o' coordination and leadership does as much to hurt the movement as help,) our position on antifa has been consistent critical. we will again wait for your proof o' antifa support.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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