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Politics 2020 - the gift that keeps giving


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7 minutes ago, Malcador said:

What policies you think will endanger that which "defines being American" ?¬† What, they're going to stop them for being loud, vulgar and ignorant ? ūüėõ And I think you're overstating the influence Sanders and Warren will have over a Biden administration - baby steps would be the most one could hope for.¬†

 

@BruceVC is sounding more Trumpian by the day!  "Biden is a Trojan Horse for the radical left and will destroy literally EVERYTHING about 'Muricah!"

Actual radical left: Biden is a paid shill by big pharma and the insurance companies and is a neoliberal warmonger Conservative, Hell, even Bernie is questionable with his endorsement to him and his loyalty to a party that is clearly not progressive.

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Another attempt by social medias to control the narrative and force people to follow only  opinions they approve.

Kyle Rittenhouse lawyer was banned from Twitter for publicly defending his client:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8689559/Kyle-Rittenhouses-lawyer-plans-sue-Twitter-account-blocked.html

This is something very concerning when people right to defend themselves publicly is denied. I've seen many people getting banned, suspended and blocked on social media for their opinion on Kyle Rittenhouse and what happened in Kenosha. This is Orwellian beyond imagination.

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23 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

@BruceVC is sounding more Trumpian by the day!  "Biden is a Trojan Horse for the radical left and will destroy literally EVERYTHING about 'Muricah!"

Actual radical left: Biden is a paid shill by big pharma and the insurance companies and is a neoliberal warmonger Conservative, Hell, even Bernie is questionable with his endorsement to him and his loyalty to a party that is clearly not progressive.

No I want Biden to win for several reasons, overall I think another 4 years of Trump will not allow the USA to recover as quickly from the virus impact as a Biden presidency and Biden will realign to certain important historical relationships like the important friendship with the EU and NATO

But Trump is not all bad and has had several successful policies like how they made the USA economy stronger and more business friendly

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

This is something very concerning when people right to defend themselves publicly is denied. I've seen many people getting banned, suspended and blocked on social media for their opinion on Kyle Rittenhouse and what happened in Kenosha. This is Orwellian beyond imagination.

This is not a case of self defense.  Rittenhouse stocked up on ammo, planned the trip and went there to go on the offensive with intent to kill.

Self defense is when you're going about your daily routine and you're accosted by a person or persons and you correctly and appropriately defend yourself.

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He wasn't banned. His account was "mistakenly" suspended for a few hours, and then reinstated. I'm not sure a lawsuit about that will get very far.

I also find accusations of "Orwellianism" odd. This isn't the government. It's a private business -- you know, the same whose freedom to do whatever within the confines of the law you usually defend.

When something like this comes up, I'm immediately reminded of the go-to response to left-wing social commentary: "You don't like it? Go live in Iran/Venezuela/NK". But when similar logic is used to suggest something as trivial as creating an account in a different social network, folks lose their ****.

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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First amendment applies to social media bans, now ?

Obsidian moderators, your time has finally come, you fascists!

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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11 minutes ago, 213374U said:

 

When something like this comes up, I'm immediately reminded of the go-to response to left-wing social commentary: "You don't like it? Go live in Iran/Venezuela/NK". But when similar logic is used to suggest something as trivial as creating an account in a different social network, folks lose their ****.

But there is nothing wrong with any immigrant deciding to immigrate to another country if they not happy with laws in the country like immigration and border  control and how you process citizenship? You cant expect them to go home but they can always immigrate somewhere else ?

 

This has happened several times in SA with illegal immigrants and we fine with it 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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32 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But Trump is not all bad and has had several successful policies like how they made the USA economy stronger and more business friendly

But not worker/ lower class friendly, vast amounts of wealth transferring upward does not equate to a strong, stable economy, in fact the opposite.  How Covid-19 devastated a good portion of it and left people with scraps homeless is a good indicator there.  Also, these riots and protests would be significantly lowered if Trump actually created a federal jobs program safety net that provided lower class people with more opportunities.  Hell, if Trump actually DID that, I may in fact be singing MAGA tunes no question, but alas, he's beholden by party orthodoxy of poor-shaming and rigged busniness hierarchies which is historically proven to be woefully ineffective from a social and structural standpoint (see 1932 and 2008 for more info).

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1 hour ago, Malcador said:

The Democrats are extreme left, now ?

there is so much hasty generalization fails in this thread.

blame blm for any murder or injury to cops.

blame the media as if newspapers, tv stations, internet sites and rando blogs linked as news on this site is all part o' some monolithic cabal with a uniform set o' tactics and goals.

blame dems for violence happening under the trump administration, or assume dem groupthink even though many o' us watched the dem debates... and what were the point o' that if they is all the same? 

we do criticize antifa 'cause they their raison d'être is to use the means o' the fascists against them-- they say it is ok to use violence to prevent speakers from sharing their message.

we do blame trump voters because they, all of them, voted for a guy who promised a muslim ban during his candidacy, and we see no way, particular for Americans, to justify such.

etc.

too much generalization and not enough focus on actual actions.

why does it even need be pointed out how manifest unfair is the generalizations? stop blaming the media or the protesters. yeah, we can generalize and see trends we believe should be addressed 'mongst media and the protesters. would be swell if a few o' the more extreme media offerors could be more concerned with fact checking regardless o' the freedom they got from the Constitution to spew opinion like every other citizen... damn that first amendment, eh? and yeah, there is too many protesters in various cities who is not making the ghost o' john lewis proud. call the media sources out by name and admonish those protesters who do wrong, but resort to hasty generalization, particular when is convenient and matches the skree o' one's favored candidate, is just plain fugly... and stoopid.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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4 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

But not worker/ lower class friendly, vast amounts of wealth transferring upward does not equate to a strong, stable economy, in fact the opposite.  How Covid-19 devastated a good portion of it and left people with scraps homeless is a good indicator there.  Also, these riots and protests would be significantly lowered if Trump actually created a federal jobs program safety net that provided lower class people with more opportunities.  Hell, if Trump actually DID that, I may in fact be singing MAGA tunes no question, but alas, he's beholden by party orthodoxy of poor-shaming and rigged busniness hierarchies which is historically proven to be woefully ineffective from a social and structural standpoint (see 1932 and 2008 for more info).

Yes there is a valid economic argument about the structure of parts of the US economic growth under Trump but you still cannot deny if it wasn't for the virus the US economy was doing exceptionally well based on several, global ways economies can be measured. For example under Trump unemployment was the lowest in 50 years and the lowest ever in the history of when this data was collated within the  African American and Latino communities....you could question the types of jobs that were created but  I still think having a job is preferable to being unemployed ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/04/black-and-hispanic-unemployment-is-at-a-record-low.html

 

And I assume this is true 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss‚ÄĚ

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.‚ÄĚ -¬† George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Why would it make us nervous? Well, you Americans anyway. Can't be much worse than Trump and the utterly servile Congress he had for 2 years.

When one party holds all the cards they can get into terrible mischief. Boondoggle health insurance schemes, walls out in the desert, etc. When power is divided they make a public show of hating and sniping at each other and not much happens.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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@BruceVC

people voted for trump based on his promise o' the muslim ban. the final executive order is immaterial insofar as the sins o' those who voted trump into office.

also, the earlier iterations o' the muslim ban were so comical bungled in part 'cause they were transparent efforts to actualize the trump campaign promise. ban immigration from places where near all immigrants o' islamic faith arrive while simultaneous making exceptions for those o' christian and jewish faiths were awkward attempts to implement a muslim ban w/o using the words "muslim" or "islamic." point out how the the executive orders mentioned nations and not a faith is hardly compelling evidence that trump did not attempt to implement a muslim ban.

btw, what trump ended up with should appal evangelicals as it has made near impossible for christians fleeing persecution in the middle east to seek refuge in the US. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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8 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

He actually was a socialist? You recall the name of the party? He wasn't a commie though. 

similar, darkpriest could claim to be a fairy princess.

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HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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3 minutes ago, 213374U said:

source.gif

is almost as if you have you never posted on this board.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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53 minutes ago, Malcador said:

First amendment applies to social media bans, now ?

Obsidian moderators, your time has finally come, you fascists!

Well, this is a bit murky territory now, if social interactions and communication went mostly into internet, and social services, which call themselves 'platforms' and use benefits of a certain act, to avoid liability claims for whats published on their sites, then indeed they become your new open air plazas, where your Freedom of expression rights should be protected. Considering they are profiting from your data and your behaviors free of charge from you. 

There is also a lot of complexity around the whole online environment and exercising your civil rights and having them protected. You have basically a whole another world and business and social ineractions and opportunities, yet they are controlled by private corps. There is a real thin line here to potentially distopian visions of mega corps controling your life, what you see, and what you learn and how far you can reach in your life. 

I'm fairly sure, that if Amazon or Google would decide in not so distant future, that some av. joe should not exist anywhere in their services and dbs, you would find it very hard to be emplyed beyond a burger flipper at your local gas station (think of the use of cloud services like AWS by all the big corps, and a lot of other similar servicing tools that are available fro the tech giants) 

 

One of the simllest fixes to this banning of wrong thinking, would be to add clauses, that they can ban only activities that bear marks of criminal behavioors and then they should inform prosecutors and send all evidence of criminalized actions to law enforcement. 

If the charges are dropped, such individual would be immediatly reinstated in all rights he previously had. 

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7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

similar, darkpriest could claim to be a fairy princess.

31741a6a974e9d4bfe32398236687158.jpg

HA! Good Fun!

I admit, this mde me chuckle ūüėÖ

 

I'd probably want to avoid opening the can of worms of political sciences, and talking about the principles on economy etc. Let that be with historians in academies ūüėČ

 

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"Because if the Democrats control both the House and Senate I assume they could  pass realistically any bill or law ..or attempt to pass?  At the moment no one party controls both the House and Senate. And there are real concerns around extreme left populism that could severely impact the USA economy and or implement laws that lead to further divisiveness and acrimony between left and right ...and I can think of several, concerning extreme left laws or new bills  that concern me immensely  "

That is where you hire lawyers like Gromnir to sue the government's asses when they go against the constitution. That is what the anti Trumpers have done. Keep them busy in the courts.

If Dems when I expect a lot more censorship. Heck, the only reason why Trump doesn't do it is because one thing the left has over the right is outside of abortion and maybe guns, the elft isn't afraid to repeatedly take the president/WH to court. L0L

 

"went there to go on the offensive with intent to kill."

No evidence of this at all. However, there is evidence that he was repeatedly attacked by rapists and pedophiles. Pure self defense.

 

"His account was "mistakenly" suspended for a few hours,"

 

L0L good use of "...". Nobody buys that crap. And, it is clearly censorship. - especially since the gov't is getting on the case of these site s(including Trumptards and right wingers). Nothing should be censorsed from these sites except  death threats, rape, and thje like. Opinions should not be even if they are unpopular. Espicially if they are unpopular.

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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U.S. Debt Is Set to Exceed Size of the Economy for Year, a First Since World War II

Tick tock tick tock tick..... tock.... BOOM

Biden is promising to spend even MORE. Can someone please explain to me how this is the "most important election in history" again when no matter who wins the dollars in your pockets and bank accounts might soon be worth less than the paper they are printed on?

Hey, I'm prepared. How are you guys doin'?

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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1 hour ago, ComradeMaster said:

This is not a case of self defense.  Rittenhouse stocked up on ammo, planned the trip and went there to go on the offensive with intent to kill.

Self defense is when you're going about your daily routine and you're accosted by a person or persons and you correctly and appropriately defend yourself.

This is not true according to evidence and witnesses. But it's ok for you to have this opinion. It's also ok for someone else to have different opinion on the matter and people should not be punished  in any shape or form for having that opinion.

1 hour ago, 213374U said:

He wasn't banned. His account was "mistakenly" suspended for a few hours, and then reinstated. I'm not sure a lawsuit about that will get very far.

I also find accusations of "Orwellianism" odd. This isn't the government. It's a private business -- you know, the same whose freedom to do whatever within the confines of the law you usually defend.

When something like this comes up, I'm immediately reminded of the go-to response to left-wing social commentary: "You don't like it? Go live in Iran/Venezuela/NK". But when similar logic is used to suggest something as trivial as creating an account in a different social network, folks lose their ****.

As always the "mistake" happened to a conservative that had different view then the regressive left, huh? It's obvious the "mistake" claim is always given when sufficient fuss is made. But what about dozens other people who get banned because of their view on the issue who don't get headlines when this is happening to them? 

I would be perfectly happy to migrate to another platform, but there isn't one. Twitter, Facebook and Youtube are basically monopolies and monopolies are not treated like a normal provider because standard market rules don't apply. That's why any sane country have and enforce anti-monopoly laws. Imagine that in the name of fighting global warming normal cars are banned and only electrical cars can be used and that your only choice is Tesla. No imagine Tesla declares that because women are bad drivers only men can drive them. What would you tell women? To switch to bikes if they don't like the terms of service? Of course not.

I think it's to much power in the hands of owners of those companies to allow them to shut off any opinions and ideas they are not approving. 

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2 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

 

I think it's to much power in the hands of owners of those companies to allow them to shut off any opinions and ideas they are not approving. 

So what is the solution? Have the government step in and stop them from doing that? That would NOT be a small government conservative position you realize.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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Sue them on grounds of descrimination. And political prosecution. And, follow through the courts with it. 

The fact that facebook needs to lie and claim it was a 'mistake' tells me they know it was wrong.

 

 

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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