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Politics XXXVIII (A Nontotient)


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This is a very interesting take on why military members seldom "look the other way" on bad acts but police sometimes do. I can tell you from my own experience personal integrity and respect for the Marine Corps, your unit, and the chain of command being paramount to every thing else, even faith with your fellow Marines is drilled into you starting in boot camp. 

Why the US Military Usually Punishes Misconduct but Police Often Close Ranks

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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I don't think the military should be running their own trials. They shouldn't be separated even if thata rticle tries to spin it positively. The army is supposed to fight for the country and for everyone to follow the laws and be treated equal. Having a seperate court system and disrespectful to that goal.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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1 hour ago, Volourn said:

I don't think the military should be running their own trials. They shouldn't be separated even if thata rticle tries to spin it positively. The army is supposed to fight for the country and for everyone to follow the laws and be treated equal. Having a seperate court system and disrespectful to that goal.

They kind of have to. There are things that are illegal for military that are only illegal for military.  Things that have no civilian equivalent. 

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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57 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

They kind of have to. There are things that are illegal for military that are only illegal for military.  Things that have no civilian equivalent. 

like sodomy. just sayin.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we would suggest the biggest difference and main reason civilian courts can't do military cases is 'cause o' the premium the military places on swift justice. civilian judges could apply military law as needed. the thing is, criminal cases is s'posed to be speedy in civilian courts, but "speedy" is meaning something complete different for the military, and understandable so. unlike civilian, the chain o' command ain't gonna be disrupted by a bunch o' smartypants lawyers dragging out a case.

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Oldier but goodie. But, just evidence that BLM is a terrorist organization that is about mass murder, and other disgusting stuff.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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https://eu.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/07/30/louisville-protests-nulu-businesses-respond-gentrification-demands/5546810002/

 

BLM is running a test program in Louisville to see if they can get away with extorting protection money from businesses. Next stop? Maybe compulsory armbands for non-BLM supporters? They only need to pick a symbol. A star maybe?

166215__front.jpg.45518d58bdab611f0e3a026d3b8c6489.jpg

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Ah yes, the thin egde of the wedge.

SEALs once again making the Navy proud -https://thehill.com/policy/defense/510237-navy-seals-investigating-video-showing-dog-attacking-colin-kaepernick-stand-in

 

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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You have to admit, Trump seems to have a certain knack for picking these....

 

116133569_681393842448671_81530052510337

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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I heard a good one yesterday. "Choosing Biden over Trump is like s-----g your pants then changing your shirt"

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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That doesn't make any sense? Assuming Biden is the shirt, is Trump the pants or the feces? If the candidates are all pieces of clothing, is the libertarian point that hypothetical diarrhea guy should have gotten a new hat instead?

 

But if the point is that Trump is the feces, perhaps the argument should be that the holy constitutional pants are too restrictive and old and probably should be updated and improved in order to allow for better protection and cleaning, instead of working against the lower appendages it's supposed to help protect.

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41 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

That doesn't make any sense? Assuming Biden is the shirt, is Trump the pants or the feces? If the candidates are all pieces of clothing, is the libertarian point that hypothetical diarrhea guy should have gotten a new hat instead?

 

But if the point is that Trump is the feces, perhaps the argument should be that the holy constitutional pants are too restrictive and old and probably should be updated and improved in order to allow for better protection and cleaning, instead of working against the lower appendages it's supposed to help protect.

You are overthinking it. It just means you won’t be any better off after.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12353763

Strange that he'd have an interview with a non-US journalist, they tend to be less compliant than US ones

 

(hopefully that plays outside the US)

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

You are overthinking it. It just means you won’t be any better off after.

I disagree. Trump has been a train wreck, and he has put terrible people in important positions. Personally, just replacing Betsy Davos will improve the trajectory of my profession in education. That will only happen under a new administration.

We are still going to be dealing with a pandemic for the foreseeable future. I have a hard time believing Biden could do as badly as Trump in handling it. He certainly isn't going to threaten to withhold funding from schools if they don't open their doors. 

Biden also probably doesn't use some Federal police force in Portland. I'm not sure how anyone can get behind that action. That alone should be enough to say "This guy is worse than the alternative." 

 

edit: A year ago, I partially agreed with you. I would rather have 2 mediocre guys serving 4 year terms than 1 mediocre guy getting a full 8, but I was pretty bleh on both. But watching everything unfold in 2020 has been eye opening. A career politician is sadly an upgrade to the mess we have right now.

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I'm not sure what it really says about the current state of human pragmatism / cynicism that everybody expects any career politician to have certain levels of corruption.

But speaking as an outsider, I think we can safely say that if/when Biden takes office, while he might populate many of those agencies with some elements of those lobbying fields, he wouldn't be as blatantly obviously brutal about putting people in charge of the agencies that try to keep their personal interests to some form of legal accountability.

 

Of course, it actually puts me in mind of Tom Clancy a little.  President Ryan's "I'm going to pick people I personally know and trust who are experts in their field to be put in charge of x and y..."

I wonder how much Tom Clancy Trump reads....

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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1 minute ago, Skarpen said:

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I guess I'll be the dude to side with GD. There's lots of stuff structurally wrong with the US and whether your opinions on what they are or how to go about addressing them replacing the orange man (who is undeniably a festering piece of **** that needs to **** off) is insufficient. Biden is a career politician with ties to various industries who presided over such structural issues since before I was born, furthermore the whole "settle for Biden" campaign signals that he isn't going to budge on his positions that maintain said structural issues. A vote for Biden is a vote to keep the same issues but have a management that is nice to you while doing nothing instead of one that screams incoherent gibberish and says that 150000 people dying is actually good or that BLM antifa omega stalinists are going to force you to gay marry a transgender mexican muslim after they take your guns. It's not enough to change your shirt, you've got to take off all your poop stained clothes and clean yourself up.

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30 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

 

 

edit: A year ago, I partially agreed with you. I would rather have 2 mediocre guys serving 4 year terms than 1 mediocre guy getting a full 8, but I was pretty bleh on both. But watching everything unfold in 2020 has been eye opening. A career politician is sadly an upgrade to the mess we have right now.

am not sure how anybody other than ignorant bed wetters got past "muslim ban." yeah, the US has failed to live up to its foundational principles more than once during the past +200 years, failed all too frequent in fact, but this country is s'posed to be a heaven for those fleeing religious persecution. no doubt hurl has taught students the history o' how those oppressed for their beliefs in europe (e.g. puritans, mennonites, jesuits, etc.) made the dangerous trip to an uncertain future in the Americas in hope they could escape the bigotry they faced in the old country. all too often the muslims who today seek a new start in the US is fleeing religious intolerance of a particular violent and bloody nature, and yet trump wanted to slam the door shut on such folks en masse... stoked fear and prejudice. 

is shameful we elected a guy who were promising a muslim ban. fact such weren't the red line for voters is a stain on our national character which is gonna take a long time to expunge, particular as am suspecting such bigotry has become worse these past three years.

 

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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18 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

I guess I'll be the dude to side with GD. There's lots of stuff structurally wrong with the US and whether your opinions on what they are or how to go about addressing them replacing the orange man (who is undeniably a festering piece of **** that needs to **** off) is insufficient. Biden is a career politician with ties to various industries who presided over such structural issues since before I was born, furthermore the whole "settle for Biden" campaign signals that he isn't going to budge on his positions that maintain said structural issues. A vote for Biden is a vote to keep the same issues but have a management that is nice to you while doing nothing instead of one that screams incoherent gibberish and says that 150000 people dying is actually good or that BLM antifa omega stalinists are going to force you to gay marry a transgender mexican muslim after they take your guns. It's not enough to change your shirt, you've got to take off all your poop stained clothes and clean yourself up.

Yes, but unfortunately, I don't have a workable plan that will kidnap Trump, Biden, and ~99% of current and past (living) Congress members and put them all on an island for the next 8 years...while also subjecting 90% of the rest of the population to some combination of public beatings and forced education in order to effect a totally different voting culture that will stop voting in the same types of politicians that keep working against our interests and getting us into the messes they do. But if you have any ideas on how to do that, I will hear them. The U.S., as a whole, is really just getting exactly the candidates it deserves.

Edited by Bartimaeus

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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Manhattan DA probing Trump and his business over more than 'hush-money' payments

trump's attorneys bungled this in an epic way. the overbroad and bad faith argument were a nice and fat pitch which the manhattan da promptly sent yard. 

"Manhattan's district attorney on Monday suggested a grand jury subpoena for U.S. President Donald Trump's tax returns was part of an investigation of "possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization," including alleged insurance and bank fraud."

...

"Trump's argument that the subpoena is overbroad "rests on the false premise that the grand jury's investigation is limited to so-called 'hush-money' payments made by Michael Cohen" on Trump's behalf in 2016, Vance said."

cohen, trump's former fixer, may get the last laugh as it appears he is the genesis for much o' the manhattan da investigation.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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24 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am not sure how anybody other than ignorant bed wetters got past "muslim ban." yeah, the US has failed to live up to its foundational principles more than once during the past +200 years, failed all too frequent in fact, but this country is s'posed to be a heaven for those fleeing religious persecution. no doubt hurl has taught students the history o' how those oppressed for their beliefs in europe (e.g. puritans, mennonites, jesuits, etc.) made the dangerous trip to an uncertain future in the Americas in hope they could escape the bigotry they faced in the old country. all too often the muslims who today seek a new start in the US is fleeing religious intolerance of a particular violent and bloody nature, and yet trump wanted to slam the door shut on such folks en masse... stoked fear and prejudice. 

is shameful we elected a guy who were promising a muslim ban. fact such weren't the red line for voters is a stain on our national character which is gonna take a long time to expunge, particular as am suspecting such bigotry has become worse these past three years.

 

yeah but there is a slight problem here it seems, they are not running from religious persecution as much as they are bringing it in with them

 

original: https://www.senat.fr/notice-rapport/2019/r19-595-2-notice.html

 

very tame translation by al arabia xD https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2020/07/09/French-lawmakers-propose-Muslim-Brotherhood-ban-measures-to-combat-radical-Is

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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oh, well, if the french are doing it... and obvious the random article proves that most muslims fleeing the middle east, asia and sub-saharan africa is bringing religious persecution with them.

*chuckle*

we can do this too

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/us/politics/hr-mcmaster-trump-islam.html

general mcmaster, and most o' the military brass, is in favor o' muslim refugees getting asylum in the US as doing so undermines efforts o' groups such as isis from simple optics pov, but also provides a wealth o' intelligence resources with which to combat more radical elements in the middle east.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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