Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

[Volourn]

"Ending the monopoly on violence sounds good to me. "

Anyoen who thinsk the police have a monopoly on violence hsould check the violence statistics. The police don't have come close.

 

"I read Wallace's reaction as being against people trying to claim it was a hoax and that he was trying to play the victim.  Even the FBI says it was a noose knot, just that it was used as a garage pull and had been for some time.   "

 

He's a racist who labels all white people as racists and automatically assumed this was  personal racist attack on him. It wasn't. What an ego. He claimed it was a racist attack and he also states he won't back down from his claims. Instead of admitting he overacted he double down. EVIL.

 

We should be focused on dealing with actual racist events not FAKE NEWS.

 

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Lots of people realizing this 5 years too late, heh.

Being irrational and unpredictable was one of his big appeals to a certain sort of voter.

Also don't really need to be told that by that unrepentant war criminal and gobbet of sputum in the pissoir of society John Bolton, one of the people who would undoubtedly somehow manage to be worse than Trump if he were somehow elected.

[Malcador]

7 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Being irrational and unpredictable was one of his big appeals to a certain sort of voter.

Also don't really need to be told that by that unrepentant war criminal and gobbet of sputum in the pissoir of society John Bolton, one of the people who would undoubtedly somehow manage to be worse than Trump if he were somehow elected.

That is true, seems like less are still on board with it.  I guess the overall air of incompetence is beginning to have an effect.  With Bolton and Barr, sort of hoping Oliver North ends up in the administration, somehow.

[Gromnir]

two words which shoulda made a 2016 trump win impossible:

muslim ban

p#$$y grab

john mccain

etc.

still saddens us beyond any capacity to communicate that we, as a people, elected a man advocating a f#$%ing muslim ban. wtf. the grab comments came later and likewise failed to dissuade.

polarization.

trump in wh is the result o' polarization, and it's polarization which is the big problem. won't be fixed even if trump is not winning a second term. exit polls in 2016 made clear most voters, even most voters who voted for trump, didn't like trump or believe he were competent, but they liked clinton even less. four years pass and polarization is so much worse. is now impossible for many trump voters to consider the possibility o' voting for one o' those filthy democrats who is responsible for hoaxes such as russian election interference and the failed trump response to covid-19 in early 2020. in spite o' concerns o' 'bout trump competence and character, it were a matter o' trump or _________. so many important issues and the typical trump voter were only casting their ballot for trump 'cause the threat o' President clinton were too much to bear.

fast forward to 2020 and an extraordinary number o' 2016 trump voters has convinced selves trump is a savior o' sorts. in spite o' near four years o' historic incompetence and impotence, trump is their guy, no matter what. each new self-created wh crisis is only further proof that the only reason democrats hate trump so much is 'cause the chief executive threatens the scheme o' deep state power, or so the conspiracy goes. is not rational. is not reasonable. is polarization.

now admitted, some folks were ahead o' the curve. had boardies hereabouts who raged 'gainst democrats back in 2026, or 'gainst democrats AND republicans. capacity to be reasonable had already disappeared for many previous to trump presidency, but am thinking most observers not need to be convinced overmuch to agree with general observation regarding the increased polarization o' the US electorate during the past few years.

"ever seen a car accident just before it happens?  as often as not, the first indication you got that a car accident happened is the sound o' car horns immediate followed by the loud crash as two or more cars slam into each other with bone shattering force.  but sometimes you actual see the accident unfold.  you see the guy pull his el camino into the bike lane and accelerate into an intersection in spite o' the fact that he gots a red light.  is literal nothing you can do to stop the guy, but you know what is gonna happen.  you cringe. your whole body tenses. you await the crash.  trump is the guy in the el camino, but the accident is happening in slow motion and can easily be stopped.  inexplicably, more than 1/3 o' the americans watching the developing accident is cheering trump forward." -- Gromnir, 8/16

in spite o' our being conservative, 'least from traditional national voting pov, the impending trump accident were obvious in 2016. the thing is, in spite o' us all standing 'mongst the wreckage o' the current administration, +/-40% o' Americans is now cheering trump forward.

polarization.

two-words which shoulda made a 2016 trump win impossible:

p#$$y grab

muslim ban

john mccain

etc.

polarization.

HA! Good Fun!

ps "muslim ban" shoulda' been more than enough to get a few more people in battleground states to vote, but...

is possible we are paying for our sins.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Devin Nunes' crusade to make fun of himself still goes on -

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-world/national/article243664982.html

 

[IndiraLightfoot]

^What Gromnir wrote above: I just watched Trump's tirade about China and Covid-19, and his popularity just baffles me. He's like one of them primary school bullies talking smack with the few brain cells he can muster to deliver a limited number of short and still barely intelligible sentences. And his entire body language, his tone - disgusting - is the word I'm looking for.

Edited June 25, 2020 by IndiraLightfoot

[Skarpen]

7 hours ago, Gromnir said:

In spite o' our being conservative,

I have yet to see a single instance of you showing a conservative view or stance. You seem like those trolls who post on conservative sites who always start with "I'm a conservative, but...".

Your constant confusion about Trump support that result in a rant every couple of weeks is most probably a result of you not watching and/or reading any conservative news/articles/discussions etc. there are plenty of detailed statements from Trump supporters on "why Trump". The reason you are not familiar with those is simple. You are not in any way, shape or form a conservative.

[Gorth]

3 hours ago, IndiraLightfoot said:

He's like one of them primary school bullies talking smack with the few brain cells he can muster to do deliver a limited number of short and still barely intelligible sentences. And his entire body language, his tone - disgusting - is the word I'm looking for.

I know generalizing is lazy, but he fits the mold from which populists are spewed forth.  Mussolini, Bolsonaro, Trump, Kim, Modi, Erdogan, Netanyahu etc... cut from the same fabric. Thriving on division, conflict and aggression. A fearful population looks for aggressive leaders, so they do what they can to stir up unrest and if no flames are to be fanned, start a few little convenient wars (or trade conflicts).

[Gromnir]

hillary clinton were a historic unpopular Presidential candidate, and she nevertheless managed to win the popular vote? so we end up with a "populist" such as trump? wait, that sounds wrong, no? trump is aberrational, or at least he was. no reputable composite popularity poll for trump has ever had him reach even 50% approval. the notion o' an unpopular populist successfully gaining and keeping power is kinda a political oxymoron possible only 'cause o' a strange confluence o' events and the uniqueness o' the US republic.

control of senate may be achieved, theoretical, by ~20% o' the US population. 

the President may be elected w/o win o' popular vote. the 2020 Presidency itself is not at all what the framers envisioned, so we cannot even blame them for oversights. regardless, the Presidency were never meant to be voted in by popular consent o' the great unwashed masses.

the Court is most decided not appointed democratic.

is possible for a small percentage o' the US population to functional control the federal government. 

...

the dirty non secret o' american democracy is that a benevolent tyranny of the minority, sadly, is exact what the framers were building in 1787. white and propertied males were never the majority in the US. that said, the framers were wise to fear the tyranny o' the majority, which is why American democracy is largely a repudiation o' the athenian model. the Bill of Rights, which Gromnir champions frequent, were designed as limit on the predictable excesses and tyranny o' the majority. nevertheless, the educated and landed gentleman whom we are preparing to celebrate loudly this coming 4th o' july were a bunch o' bigots who were afraid o' the poor and immigrants... and don't let the upcoming hamilton release on disney fool you 'bout how enlightened and magnanimous were those folks. 

what the framers could not imagine, 'cause it weren't actual possible at the time, were that a largely uneducated and relative poor minority would be able to decide the fate o' the nation.  a "populist" President able to appeal to an angry and fearful minority, even if possible, were not to be greatly feared. in spite o' fact the President is commander in chief, the US had no standing armies in 1787. also, the President had extreme limited powers mostly limited to foreign affairs. course things change a bit in a couple centuries and the executive branch is not at all what it were in 1787.

the US improbable blundered its way into an unpopular populist such as trump in 2016. nevertheless, once an improbable mistake occurs, it becomes increasing easy to replicate the mistake by design. given the nature o' this board, am gonna observe how crpg fans is no doubt aware o' how wacky and bizarre is a few o' those xp and/or gold exploits which haunt many/most game releases. with just the right party composition, completing a quest and choosing specific dialogue options, will lead to an infinite replication exploit. call it a bug or a design flaw not make a difference. reality is that until game developers fix, many players will take advantage o' the exploit. the US Constitution don't have game developers-- we got the amendment process. imagine if removal o' every busted arse crpg exploit required 2/3 of game purchasers to agree to a change o' the exploit?

we broke it, and now we are stuck with it. may god have mercy on our souls.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

hillary clinton were a historic unpopular Presidential candidate, and she nevertheless managed to win the popular vote? so we end up with a "populist" such as trump? wait, that sounds wrong, no? trump is aberrational, or at least he was. no reputable composite popularity poll for trump has ever had him reach even 50% approval. the notion o' an unpopular populist successfully gaining and keeping power is kinda a political oxymoron possible only 'cause o' a strange confluence o' events and the uniqueness o' the US republic.

control of senate may be achieved, theoretical, by ~20% o' the US population. 

the President may be elected w/o win o' popular vote. the 2020 Presidency itself is not at all what the framers envisioned, so we cannot even blame them for oversights. regardless, the Presidency were never meant to be voted in by popular consent o' the great unwashed masses.

the Court is most decided not appointed democratic.

is possible for a small percentage o' the US population to functional control the federal government. 

...

the dirty non secret o' american democracy is that a benevolent tyranny of the minority, sadly, is exact what the framers were building in 1787. white and propertied males were never the majority in the US. that said, the framers were wise to fear the tyranny o' the majority, which is why American democracy is largely a repudiation o' the athenian model. the Bill of Rights, which Gromnir champions frequent, were designed as limit on the predictable excesses and tyranny o' the majority. nevertheless, the educated and landed gentleman whom we are preparing to celebrate loudly this coming 4th o' july were a bunch o' bigots who were afraid o' the poor and immigrants... and don't let the upcoming hamilton release on disney fool you 'bout how enlightened and magnanimous were those folks. 

what the framers could not imagine, 'cause it weren't actual possible at the time, were that a largely uneducated and relative poor minority would be able to decide the fate o' the nation.  a "populist" President able to appeal to an angry and fearful minority, even if possible, were not to be greatly feared. in spite o' fact the President is commander in chief, the US had no standing armies in 1787. also, the President had extreme limited powers mostly limited to foreign affairs. course things change a bit in a couple centuries and the executive branch is not at all what it were in 1787.

the US improbable blundered its way into an unpopular populist such as trump in 2016. nevertheless, once an improbable mistake occurs, it becomes increasing easy to replicate the mistake by design. given the nature o' this board, am gonna observe how crpg fans is no doubt aware o' how wacky and bizarre is a few o' those xp and/or gold exploits which haunt many/most game releases. with just the right party composition, completing a quest and choosing specific dialogue options, will lead to an infinite replication exploit. call it a bug or a design flaw not make a difference. reality is that until game developers fix, many players will take advantage o' the exploit. the US Constitution don't have game developers-- we got the amendment process. imagine if removal o' every busted arse crpg exploit required 2/3 of game purchasers to agree to a change o' the exploit?

we broke it, and now we are stuck with it. may god have mercy on our souls.

HA! Good Fun!

H.L. Mencken called it all the way back in 1934: "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

[Skarpen]

13 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

H.L. Mencken called it all the way back in 1934: "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

True. Fortunately USA is done with Obama as president.

[Guard Dog]

Gromnir is absolutely right about one thing, if the Executive Branch actually conformed to the rules and exercised only those powers enumerated in Article II the outcome of the Presidential election would be interesting but not altogether earth shattering. Of course if Congress only exercised those powers in Article I and didn't hand them over to Presidents, or sit meekly by as Presidents just took them, AND they didn't abuse the hell out of the "necessary and proper" clause, we'd all be better off.

Congress was supposed to be the real power. As it is they are an effective foil when they find the spine to be. It's an ugly body full of ugly people, some of the nastiest you'll ever meet when a press microphone is nearby. And people decry the "partisan bickering" and "gridlock". Not me. It's a beautiful thing. Congress is ever better than when it is accomplishing nothing. Except when it stops the President from accomplishing anything. Under divided government we are somewhat safe from bad laws, bad taxes, stupid policy (as if there were any other kind) and foreign interventions. When the rats are trying to screw each other they are not screwing us. No matter who wins this November as long as Congress is divided I'll sleep soundly. Even if Congress is united and the President is the opposite party we'll be good. When one party has all three... be afraid.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

True. Fortunately USA is done with Obama as president.

I disagree obviously. Obama was far from a moron. I would not use that word to describe Trump either actually. He is reckless, heedless, and acts without understanding. Worse he is disdainful of advice from people who actually DO know. It is common to hear him say things in speeches that are untrue. The "media" delights in calling him a liar but even that is a misnomer. He is telling the truth he believes. There was a great line form the TV sit-com Seinfeld, "Remember, it's not a lie if YOU believe it". Of course, that does not make it factually correct either. Men like him live in a world where money and force of personality actually can make things so by buying or forcing people, governments, companies into acquiescence. But now, he's out of his element. 

Obama was neither reckless nor heedless. He knew right from wrong, legal from illegal, and acted consciously to achieve whatever goals he had in mind. That is a different kind of dangerous. People who truly believe the ends justify the means are a different (but certainly not lesser) kind of danger.

[Pidesco]

8 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

disagree obviously. Obama was far from a moron. I would not use that word to describe Trump either actually. He is reckless, heedless, and acts without understanding. Worse he is disdainful of advice from people who actually DO know.

"Trump is not a moron. He is however *an enumeration of moronic qualities and/or actions*"

[melkathi]

I was told yesterday that Black Lives Matter was an organization created and led by "trained marxists" who in an alliance with antifa aim to kill black people (and have killed hundreds of black people over the last weekend alone).

Just in case you needed an example of a moron.

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, melkathi said:

I was told yesterday that Black Lives Matter was an organization created and led by "trained marxists"

They say so themselves:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, melkathi said:

who in an alliance with antifa aim to kill black people (and have killed hundreds of black people over the last weekend alone).

Bad Hollywood producers couldn't make up that stuff.

 

Edit: correcting myself, if could be a filler episode of X-Files

[Orogun01]

19 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Bad Hollywood producers couldn't make up that stuff.

 

Edit: correcting myself, if could be a filler episode of X-Files

Only if one of the blacks is an Alien that loves baseball.

Although, I don't think that it would be crazy to say that there are elements involved that want an escalation of the violence and to recruit more to their side. Communist agitators and bullies have been a thing since the Russian revolution.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

6 hours ago, melkathi said:

I was told yesterday that Black Lives Matter was an organization created and led by "trained marxists" who in an alliance with antifa aim to kill black people (and have killed hundreds of black people over the last weekend alone).

Just in case you needed an example of a moron.

Did they get that red dawn but with antifa movie confused with reality?

[melkathi]

5 hours ago, Skarpen said:

They say so themselves:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Thanks for the link. Interesting interview. Terrible article. 

Silly way she formulated it. I would say due to the fact she started with "trained organisers" and was moving on with a list, and kinda bungles it there.

[Gromnir]

19 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I have yet to see a single instance of you showing a conservative view or stance.

as is typical, the failures is in your perception and comprehension as 'posed to any shortcoming on our part. no surprise.

HA! Good Fun!

[Skarpen]

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

as is typical, the failures is in your perception and comprehension as 'posed to any shortcoming on our part. no surprise.

HA! Good Fun!

I always smile when lack of argumentation lead interlocutor into personal attacks 

As for comprehension let me help with yours. You have an opportunity to see and maybe understand the motives of Trump supporters. Trump recently blocked some H1-B visas. Of course the usual culprits are screeching they need workers. Feel free to read comments under articles about tech companies criticizing Trump decision. As well as tweets in response to tech companies and their CEO's tweeting about the visa block. That might might give you a clue about why people vote Trump despite his shortcomings.

-------------------------------------

A very interesting point of view. This is very brave as I'm sure this lady will be attacked.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Skarpen

[BruceVC]

On 6/24/2020 at 11:39 AM, Guard Dog said:

Half way through Bolton's book. This f-----g guy, Trump, has to go. 

Nobody was more surprised than he was that he was elected. He was utterly unprepared to take office, paranoid about the motivations of the people HE picked, and dismissive of information from what should have been considered reliable and learned sources. He makes decisions by gut instinct. At least what his gut tells him that day. He is irrational, unpredictable, and is literally making this up as he goes. Even Obama's cold nihilism was probably preferable. 

I also want to read this particular book, there have been many books written by White House insiders under Trump who left his campaign and use to be supporters who now share " the dirt " but Boltons views are  of particular interest to me 

[Malcador]

10 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I always smile when lack of argumentation lead interlocutor into personal attacks 

As for comprehension let me help with yours. You have an opportunity to see and maybe understand the motives of Trump supporters. Trump recently blocked some H1-B visas. Of course the usual culprits are screeching they need workers. Feel free to read comments under articles about tech companies criticizing Trump decision. As well as tweets in response to tech companies and their CEO's tweeting about the visa block. That might might give you a clue about why people vote Trump despite his shortcomings.

-------------------------------------

A very interesting point of view. This is very brave as I'm sure this lady will be attacked.

Who knew stereotyping was interesting.

 

 

[Hurlshort]

Debbie straight up racist. 

edit: Oh lordie, looked it up and she is an assistant principal at a school. I hope that social media post was worth losing a job over. Seems like a weak hill to die on.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Hurlshot