Favorite Obsidian game (with a caveat)

[sorophx]

OK, something I'm curious about: if all Obsidian games were to vanish -- and you could pick one that would be saved -- which one would you pick? This poll isn't about your favorite Obsidz game, it's about the game that you think should be forever remembered and replayed, their most impactful game etc.

I tried searching for a similar topic but couldn't find it (except for a "Best Obsidian game so far" poll -- which isn't  exactly what I'm interested in knowing -- on a forum that shall not be named). I saw a Twitter post about this, and the result there surprised me; my own response to this question also surprised me, which is why I'm making this poll. I want to see if my predictions will be correct.

I'd love for this thing to get at least a 1000 votes or close to it. and I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your choice. and just to reiterate: this isn't about your favorite game, but about what game in your opinion is the most important/objectively best/culturally significant of the bunch.

Edited March 14, 2020 by sorophx

[Mamoulian War]

Hands down Alpha Protocol, because of it's uniqueness, c&c, and replayability.

[Hawke64]

I'd call the most culturally significant Tyranny or PoE, because these IPs were developed as video games first and belong to Obsidian (PoE, at least; not sure about Tyranny). Voted for Deadfire, because it features the qualities I associate with RPGs in general and Obsidian cRPGs in particular - player's agency, interactivity, engaging story and combat. Also tool-tips.

[Hurlshort]

Interesting question. I would lean towards their own IP's for this. The Outer Worlds is my favorite game world they have created. AP is great, but flawed and not really fleshed out as much. PoE just isn't my setting.

[213374U]

47 minutes ago, Hawke64 said:

I'd call the most culturally significant Tyranny or PoE, because these IPs were developed as video games first and belong to Obsidian (PoE, at least; not sure about Tyranny).

Tyranny belongs to Disney Paradox, as far as I'm aware. I would love a sequel, but it's as unlikely as Alpha Protocol 2.

[melkathi]

Putting my hands down next to Mamoulian War's. Alpha Protocol has choices that matter, interesting characters, great dialogue. The only problem is Thorton's unreasonable dislike for SIE.

 

The problem with this poll is that it has not been sanctioned with Steven Heck and is therefor lacking a proper code name. I move to name this poll Rubber Kangaroo.

[melkathi]

On a more analytical level:

The Neverwinter Nights games were good D&D games. I enjoyed them very much (though Mask was a bugged mess for me). I found Mask of the Betrayer tried too hard to have unique NPCs and cater to the crowd that needs everything to be more strange and awesome than the next. The unique NPCs worked for Torment because of the setting. Since then they have become a staple though that, while in the case of Mask of the Betrayer well written, do tend to be crutches so the writers don't have to create interesting gimickless personalities.

The problem with the Neverwinter games, just as the KOTOR II or Dungeon Siege III, and FONV is that while fun, well made games, they all are sequels to other studios' games. FONV more than any of those managed to set itself apart from the previous one (while ironically the NWN games probably differ the most in gameplay from the previous game), but it is just another story told in the same game. There are MODs that have been made to work with both FO3 and FONV, because when it comes down to it, FONV is a huge mod for FO3.

 

Pillars of Eternity has significance already through being the epitome of nostalgia; the kickstarter that made silly amounts of money to resurrect a genre.  It could be argued that PoE has impacted the gaming world more than any other Obsidian title.

 

Alpha Protocol tried to break the norm of RPG formulas. It has problems, and wasn't the commercial success it could have been. But it does a lot of things very right in ways that few other rpgs do. It was the boldest project Obsidian did.

 

Outer Worlds was a fun game and I'll always respect that it dared to have boring companions instead of yet another exiled quarter pixie one eighth frost giant vampire heir to the throne of the cloud kingdom. That said, the game just exists and didn't offer the gaming world anything new.

[daven]

Kotor 2 made me look at star wars in a completely new way. No star wars media since has been anywhere near as interesting.

I like neverwinter nights 2 as a forgotten realms game but getting the camera todo what I want it to is an exercise in futility. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by daven

[sorophx]

1 hour ago, daven said:

Kotor 2 made me look at star wars in a completely new way. No star wars media since has been anywhere near as interesting.

yup, I see it the same way, that's why I chose it over Fallout New Vegas (close second) and Alpha Protocol (flawed gem, but unfortunately nowhere near as important historically)

[melkathi]

I fail to see the historical importance of Kotor. For that I could only see PoE with it's Kickstarter success and possible effect on what games got a chance to be made because of it. Kotor has a fanbase, but it did nothing for gaming. You don't even see it quoted that often in gaming discussions. And besides HK and Kreia, what else about the game do most people even remember? What the game left us is a robot who calls people Meatbags and an old woman who tries to justify immorality.

And as significance for Obsidian goes, PoE is the game that allowed them to work their own IPs again. Kotor, NWN, even Stick of Truth, those just kept the lights on.

 

Not judging though, I mean, I voted AP - the game that got overlooked, and had tons of problems.

[Keyrock]

Alpha Protocol without a doubt. It's quite flawed, but what that game does well it does brilliantly.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Keyrock

[Wormerine]

I am quite shocked by overwhelming popularity of Alpha Protocol. It's a curious game, but broken in so many aspects I wouldn't even consider it.

New Vegas easily for me. Many of Obsidian games are interesting but held back by something. New Vegas is simply great. 

[sorophx]

20 minutes ago, melkathi said:

I fail to see the historical importance of Kotor. For that I could only see PoE with it's Kickstarter success and possible effect on what games got a chance to be made because of it. Kotor has a fanbase, but it did nothing for gaming. You don't even see it quoted that often in gaming discussions.

actually, I still see articles about KOTOR II pop up every now and then, 15+ years after the game's initial release. and yeah, you're probably right about HK and Kreia being the characters that are quoted the most. I say it's historically significant mainly thanks to its IP. nobody outside the small circle of Infinity Engine RTWP fans knows about PoE, and I'd argue even the extremely well made and critically acclaimed New Vegas is nowhere near as well known as KOTOR II. it's culturally significant precisely because it deconstructs the SW mythos in a believable way, and at the same time it expands and enriches the SW universe. MotB tried to do something similar, but its scope was too limiting, its characters - too forgettable (IMO), and it was weighted down by its mechanics. Alpha Protocol was another great concept wrapped inside a mediocre shooter, unfortunately, even though I do love its reactivity.

I also don't see any particular value in Obsidian "having control over their own IP" as a gamer. I couldn't care less what world the game takes place in. I also think Obsidian was at its best when making sequels to other companies' games, because their sequels would be better than the originals. every time Obsidian released a game I'd closely watch their announcements because it was exciting for me to think what other worlds they could put their spin on.

in short, games like KOTOR II come around once in a blue moon: it's a great idea built around an already good game, only flaw being its unfinished state. and the fact that KOTOR II, Alpha Protocol and MotB are brought up the most in a lot of discussions about Obsidian to me is a testament to these games' significance, with KOTOR II obviously being the most important because it paved the way for the rest of them (both in materialistic and idealistic sense).

[melkathi]

See, I see Kotor II as an unfinished sequel that only sold because of the IP, but as a game had nothing to offer beside the recognized (and in my opinion vastly overrated) IP, to which it added nothing more significant than what had been put out there in various Extended Universe material.

For the Star Wars IP I'd argue the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy - which took the thirst of fans for something involving Boba Fett, build up the mystique around Mandalorians and the character, created a number of characters that would pop up in stories and products and survive the redconing of the EU, and most significantly proved that a story can be told in the IP that was not about the Force or Jedi or Sith - is far more important and did far more for it.

 

I'll confess, I hardly remember anything about Kotor II. The original Kotor had a relatively forgettable story, but the twist was well done and memorable, and the companions' reactions very enjoyable.

About MotB I remember that you were a spirit eater or something like that. There was a spirit bear that could join you if you didn't eat it. There was a part celestial. There was an eloquent companion you found locked up in jail? And his story tied in with some hags?

Now about Alpha Protocol, I could never find that dossier in the museum in Rome that would get Alan Parker to turn on Marburg.

 

That said, I do have a question for you:

Cone to go?

[Skazz]

3 hours ago, melkathi said:

See, I see Kotor II as an unfinished sequel that only sold because of the IP, but as a game had nothing to offer beside the recognized (and in my opinion vastly overrated) IP, to which it added nothing more significant than what had been put out there in various Extended Universe material.

I think that's doing the game a disservice. In a universe defined by simplistic, binary morality, KotOR 2 was the first a Star Wars product which acknowledged that - in the end - EVERYTHING about the setting amounted to blue lightsabers clashing against red lightsabers. It saw right through the inherent absurdity of the material and offered a concept that (as far as I know) no other franchise writer would explore again: that perhaps the Star Wars galaxy would be better off without the Force, whether light or dark. If the entire canon is just hundreds if not thousands of years of technicolor space wizards tearing each other apart, with no real progress happening, then what does this say about the Force? What is the point of it all?

Ah, right.

KotOR 2 took a popular video game series in a huge media franchise and found the stones to say out loud "hey, here is why it sucks". However, more than anything else, it also showed that the setting had potential to grow beyond its constraints - it offered a glimpse into what a mainstream Star Wars story could be if it wasn't afraid to ask questions instead of regurgitating the same old lanes of "Self-Insert OC Jedi #13 fights Wish-Fulfillment OC Sith #32".

Sure, some people would say that it's not exactly groundbreaking and that Avellone simply rehashed his staples (Ravel -> Kreia etc). Still, to me, it's quite an extraordinary effort when you consider that the game managed to successfully elevate stuff that George Lucas thought up on the spot in a phone call.

EDIT: I read the post below. I was talking out of my ass - KotOR 2 wasn't the first. I stand corrected.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Skazz

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, melkathi said:

See, I see Kotor II as an unfinished sequel that only sold because of the IP, but as a game had nothing to offer beside the recognized (and in my opinion vastly overrated) IP, to which it added nothing more significant than what had been put out there in various Extended Universe material.

While I disagree overall the last bit is the most important reason as to why I would not pick K2; I'd also add that the similarities to Planetscape Tournament are also a factor.

K2 is very much a try at deconstructing Star Wars the same way as PST deconstructed the typical D&D game/ campaign and shares some very obvious and direct similarities thematically and plot wise. So if you wanted to play a K2 like game thematically you could always play PST instead. If you wanted the same sort of deconstruction applied specifically to Star Wars you can go read Traitor or some of the other EU stuff dealing with Vergere- as it's pretty obvious Chris Avellone had done before writing K2- or an alternative type of deconstruction like Shatterpoint.

So to my mind the question if I had to pick one Obsidian game to save is effectively "which of their best game is most unique?" which is Alpha Protocol. There isn't much to separate it from MOTB*/ FONV/ K2 in terms of personal preference, but those games all have obvious alternatives I could play to get a similar result, AP doesn't really.

*Not NWN2 OC though. Don't think I've ever had such a negative reaction to one NPC before but he completely ruined the game for me.

Yep, I don't like Sand.

[Skazz]

5 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yep, I don't like Sand.

 

He's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere?

FWIW I liked Sand in NWN2.

[Zoraptor]

So did I in reality. I was always a bit disappointed either he or Qara ended up fighting you at the end.

 

[Katphood]

Fallout: New Vegas because it proves that you can make a good non-isometric/turn-based Fallout game...you just need the right people.

 

Alpha Protocol was pretty damn good as well. Great story, believeable characters, but also graphics and gameplay that left a lot to be desired.

 

Didn't like PoE.

 

Haven't played any other Obsidian games.

[melkathi]

Did they though make a Fallout game? Or did Bethesda make the game and Obsidian added a story?

[E.RedMark]

Only one? no brainer: Kotor 2. 

 

That game is still installed and modded and I still play it. It never get old, and the awesomness still there and I still bawl...Oh Kreia Kreia! Why couldn't I save thee?

I liked Tyranny too. And Mask of the Betrayer was alot of Fun. But NWN2 was..ugrhh...hey I come from NWN1 with Lady Aribeth my big crush that Nasher killed and here come that idiot asking me to protect him and I'm like..yeah..how about no huh? 

But it was enjoyable. Though, make me wonder if you could play evil at all. (Not that I would, it just the goodyness was a bit....overbearing. I play Lawful good, but yeah even for meh lol) . 

 

I liked Dungeon Siege 4, its not liked..cose..not the same as previous ones. I played Dungeon Siege 1 and 2 and they were SOO Boring. Dungeon Siege 4 gave me companions that talk and a story! Lol 

 

 

[kanisatha]

I think the structure of the poll is somewhat unfair to both NwN2 and PoE because support for those games is getting split among their variants. I understand each is its own game, but still one-off games end up having an advantage in a poll like this.

For me, for example, I actually like PoE1 and 2 roughly equally. PoE1 is better on story and characters. PoE2 is better on mechanics.

[Azdeus]

21 hours ago, melkathi said:

The problem with this poll is that it has not been sanctioned with Steven Heck and is therefor lacking a proper code name. I move to name this poll Rubber Kangaroo.

You want a secret handshake with that aswell? What are we, the shriners?

And yeah, AP without the shadow of a doubt. It's unique.

[injurai]

I admit I have yet to play Alpha Protocol.

Right now, hands down Pillars of Eternity 1. One of the best games I've ever played.

[sorophx]

3 hours ago, kanisatha said:

For me, for example, I actually like PoE1 and 2 roughly equally. PoE1 is better on story and characters. PoE2 is better on mechanics.

well, that's the question: which one of the two you'd hate losing access to more?