Politics First Contact

[Pidesco]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Great news on climate change! According to the latest issue of Discover Magazine, it's already too late: With Sea Level Rise, We've Already Hurtled Past a Point of No Return

The US SecGen seems to agree: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/01/climate-change-point-no-return-074610

So you can finally all stop worrying and just live your lives. The planet is screwed and it's too late to do anything about it. Whew... kind of liberating when you think about it isn't it? I mean, one less thing to worry about right? Not like we're all not going to die sometime anyway. 

But don't cash in that 401k just yet.  Don't forget Discover published these two tidbits in 1980 & 1981:

 

The global cooling thing was never the scientific consensus:

http://nora.nerc.ac.uk/id/eprint/11584/1/2008bams2370%2E1.pdf

That guy's quote was just  his personal opinion. An while he clearly overshot his predicitons:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2018/11/animal-decline-living-planet-report-conservation-news/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_in_insect_populations

 

Also while we may just really be past the point of no return, things can always get worse, and they will get worse at the rate we're going.

 

 

[Pidesco]

12 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Why Warren and Williamson, though? They are more or less diametrically opposed.

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, Pidesco said:

Why Warren and Williamson, though? They are more or less diametrically opposed.

Dunno... it's funny, don't overthink it. 

[Guard Dog]

Finland's new PM Sanna Marin is quite fetching. She seems middle of the road politically speaking. At least by Finlands standards and pretty well accomplished for 34 years old. Better keep Trump away from her though. That has "international incident" written all over it. 

[Azdeus]

16 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Finland's new PM Sanna Marin is quite fetching. She seems middle of the road politically speaking. At least by Finlands standards and pretty well accomplished for 34 years old. Better keep Trump away from her though. That has "international incident" written all over it. 

Mess with the Finns, you get the knife. I'm not worried.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Azdeus

[Maedhros]

Fun fact about her is that she is the child of two same-sex parents. Surely that's a first as far as state leaders go?

Also, TIL there's a political party in Finland called "Swedish People's Party of Finland"

Edited December 9, 2019 by Maedhros

[Guard Dog]

10 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Fun fact about her is that she is the child of two same-sex parents. Surely that's a first as far as state leaders go?

 

AFAIK that is a first. At least the first openly admitted. I'm sure it's happened at least once or twice through the years only no one knew

[Guard Dog]

One thought on Brexit. When GB leaves (if it ever does) will that screw up the arrangement with Northern Ireland and the IR?

[213374U]

That seems to be one of the biggest hurdles. No-deal would mean going back to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the island which could jeopardize the Good Friday Agreement. A return to violence has been raised as a potential risk, though it's hard to discern genuine concerns in the constant Brexit fearmongering.

But most importantly, the fantastic absurdist comedy coming out of Westminster would cease. That would be the real tragedy.

Edited December 9, 2019 by 213374U

[pmp10]

11 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Great news on climate change! According to the latest issue of Discover Magazine, it's already too late: With Sea Level Rise, We've Already Hurtled Past a Point of No Return

The US SecGen seems to agree: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/01/climate-change-point-no-return-074610

This really is not a binary issue.
There is no magic point after which human civilization collapses overnight.
Climate change has always been an exercise in damage control.

[Volourn]

Climate change exists. but there's been way too many who cry wolf about how dangerous or deadly or world changing it actually is. Throughout the eyars there's been yahoos proclaiming the 'world would end at x time' and that time always pass yet the world and civilization marches on. This world survived an actual ice age.. Humans will adapt. It is what we do. And, if we don't, oh well, the earth will march on not giving a ****.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Volourn

[Guard Dog]

I was just trying to be humorous pointing out that chicken little was at it again proclaiming "the sky is falling". 

[ComradeYellow]

16 hours ago, smjjames said:

 We won't really know what it's a beginning of until after Trump is out of office, but there is definetly some kind of shift happening

Yes the strangest shift since...WW2!  Think about it, the two most anti-Communist countries (America and Britain) cozying up comfortably to Stalin and the USSR to stop Hitler.  That doesn't just happen on a whim, that's a test of fate and the eternal definition of time and space at work going on.

These next few years should be fun. 

[Guard Dog]

This impeachment hasn't even been voted on yet and already they are planning the next: https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/louie-gohmert-threatens-to-impeach-joe-biden-in-hearing-meltdown-weve-already-got-the-forms/

The new normal. After intervening in Libya and covering up the attack on the embassy a bipartisan group made up of John Kyl, Dennis Kucinich, James Inhofe, Jason Chaffetz tried to get the ball rolling to impeach Obama. Apparently incompetence was a high crime or misdemeanor to them. 

Kucinich and Wexler actually drafted 35 Articles of Impeachment against GWB. 35! Trump is only getting 2! It was referred to the Judiciary Committee where it died from absurdity. 

Clinton actually WAS impeached. But he actually did commit perjury. People do go to jail for that. After he left office he was disbarred, 

Rep Henry Gonzalez drafted articles of impeachment against George HW Bush in 1991.

John Conyers and Jessie Jackson were trying to impeach Reagan in May of 1981. He had only been in office for three months! He hadn't even done anything yet. Then there was Iran-Contra which might have been something but as it turns out Reagan was pretty out of it by then and didn't know what was going on.

Jimmy Carter.... you know I searched for 20 min and couldn't find any attempt to impeach Carter. Well.... what do you know. 

Gerald Ford.... hmmm no one wanted to impeach him either. 

Richard Nixon; they had this guy cold. Even his own party turned on him. Well, it seems politicians actually HAD integrity back in those days. 

Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, nothing. 

So, s--t went wrong with Jessie Jackson and John Conyers and has gotten worse since.

Fun fact: John Conyers got into ethics trouble for forcing his staff to do domestic work for him and his wife like house cleaning, babysitting, and chauffeuring. He also sent them to work on other campaigns while in his employ. His wife was convicted of bribery for influencing the city of Detroit to hire a foreign contractor.  She took a plea to protect him but it was clear he was in neck deep. Then it came out he had been accused, sued, and paid off multiple former female employees for sexual harassment. But here is the good part... he paid them with tax payer money! I guess they spent all the money Synagro used to bribe them. At first the Democrats, led by Pelosi covered it all up. Because they don't eat their own. but eventually it became too much even for them to hide and he resigned. 

Edit: Gromnir thinks I'm cynical. I say if you are not cynical you are not paying attention.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Guard Dog
And another thing

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

 

Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, nothing. 

So, s--t went wrong with Jessie Jackson and John Conyers and has gotten worse since.

 

bad history.

when truman took control of steel mills during the korean war, the full house debated articles of impeachment for days, and he were hardly the first President to face serious impeachment moves. w/o any kinda research, am knowing polk, buchanan and tyler also faced serious impeachment. 

and gd conflates our cynicism comment with his recognition that push to impeach is not rare. suggest is pointless to choose 'tween candidates from either major party is indeed cynical and is no doubt the silliness putin were hoping to achieve with his election interference in the first place. render americans impotent with polarization and destroy faith in the value o' voting... or even caring. to recognize how since 1843, when the President and House are represented by different parties, impeachment debates become increasing likely is hardly the same conceit. 

gd needs take a step back from brink and maybe breath deep for a minute or two. 2019 is not same tired story. the trump situation wherein we got a President open attacking the press as a whole as enemies o' the state while simultaneous discrediting anybody who disagrees with him in government as being part o' ridiculous deep state conspiracy is not ordinary. not even lincoln during civil war went so far to attack Press, and no President has ever been so rabid in attacking our own government institutions w/o any facts to support. this President has purposeful undermined confidence in nonpolitical government bodies and functions to advance his own interests. not normal. to stand idle by and nod sadly at what you see as the everyday dumpster fire which is washington dc is not only cynical but dangerous.

oh, and please note how while impeachment noise is not rare, current wh actions to obstruct Congress and any oversight or investigative effort is unprecedented. past Presidents has used executive privilege in specific and limited instances to bar testimony or release of documents to Congress and/or special counsels, but never has a President simple announced he would refuse to comply with any subpoena efforts. No President has ever made claim to be immune from criminal Investigation by both fed and state. 

yeah, impeach efforts is not rare and it goes back further than even truman, but to pretend like the current madness is all par for the course and use such as an excuse to ignore the serious problems staring you in the face is, to be generous, cynical. 

again, if trump gets away with this, future Presidents will know they can get away with leveraging their office to get foreign nations to investigate political rivals. such malfeasance woulda' been done secret save for whistleblower. you want that? you accept it? Americans already ignored mueller's dire warnings concerning the precedent set by allowing a Presidential candidate to solicit and accept dirt from a foreign power to affect an election. sadly, too many people were distracted by talk o' witch hunts and claims that trump were unfair targeted (and as it turns out, those claims were complete undermined by recent ig report) to distract from the serious threat staring you in the face. your cynicism has us turn a blind eye to reality that after trump, the only oversight o' an uncooperative President which will have any meaning is in fact impeachment. 

am being generous to dismiss self-destructive ambivalence as cynicism.

HA! Good Fun!

[HoonDing]

I'm sure President Biden will ask Angela to investigate Drump.

[Gfted1]

Not with that shimmy in her giddyup. Someone should involve the Israelis.

[Skarpen]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

Americans already ignored mueller's dire warnings concerning the precedent set by allowing a Presidential candidate to solicit and accept dirt from a foreign power to affect an election

Agree. Hillary and Obama should be trialed for the so called Steele dossier. Unfortunately the partisans in Congress are busy on trying to impeach President based on hearsays.

[smjjames]

15 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Agree. Hillary and Obama should be trialed for the so called Steele dossier. Unfortunately the partisans in Congress are busy on trying to impeach President based on hearsays.

Some would say that there is a difference between a private citizen vs an entire government, Anyways, not sure whether you're using irony sarcastically or being serious. It has it's share of shadyness, I agree with that, but whether the specific actions with the Steele dossier are against the law, I don't know. Also, you do know that the Steel dossier stuff was initiated by a Republican, right?

@Gromnir Yeah, if the impeachment fails to go through, the Republicans better not complain when a Democrat does it because hey, 'precedent'.

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

gd needs take a step back from brink and maybe breath deep for a minute or two. 2019 is not same tired story. the trump situation wherein we got a President open attacking the press as a whole as enemies o' the state while simultaneous discrediting anybody who disagrees with him in government as being part o' ridiculous deep state conspiracy is not ordinary. not even lincoln during civil war went so far to attack Press, and no President has ever been so rabid in attacking our own government institutions w/o any facts to support. this President has purposeful undermined confidence in nonpolitical government bodies and functions to advance his own interests. not normal. to stand idle by and nod sadly at what you see as the everyday dumpster fire which is washington dc is not only cynical but dangerous.

 

HA! Good Fun!

And THAT is why every other time impeachment comes up for BS is a problem. Because THIS time it matters. THIS time is for real and the fact that every other one, including Johnson's was politics, sewer rats f-----g each other, give the Republicans the exact amount of cover NOT to remove him. Because they are not going to. He IS going to get away with soliciting a foreign government to interfere in our election because every other time impeachment gets brought up with the exception of Clinton it was just sewer rat business. It IS serious but no one takes it serious because every other time in recent history it wasn't. Hell they were talking about impeaching him weeks before the inauguration. 

That is the point I have been trying, and failing, to make. 

We finally have the government we deserve. hooray for us. 

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

He IS going to get away with soliciting a foreign government to interfere in our election because every other time impeachment gets brought up with the exception of Clinton it was just sewer rat business.

and nixon?

so, the last two times we actual had the House go through with impeachment, it were not just sewer rat business.. and when one considers that despite the sewer rat business, the House has only gotten where we are three other times...

we got a unique situation, and is not 'cause tyler actual faced an articles of impeachment vote in 1843 that we are facing this crisis. if trump excesses is ignored gd won't be able to blame history. yeah, the system is inherent skewed towards fickleness 'cause is the House which decides impeachment, and the House faces popular elections every-other years. 

history is gonna look back at this perfect storm o' stoopidity and see inevitability such as does gd, but not for same reasons at all. sure, given the degree o' insane gerrymandering we have indulged in these recent decades, aided by ai and computer models complete outside the imagination o' the founders, a President with barely 40% approval rating may have an armbar grip on his own party. the "acting" nonsense for cabinet positions is relative new in history and needs die as it is blatant unconstitutional even if it has been convenient. regardless, such nonsense allows the President to have a cabinet populated by folks never vetted by the senate. the emergency powers granted by Congress to the President needs be reconsidered. etc.

wasn't past impeachments which got us here at this point in 2019. is an improbable mix o' technological factors and social factors and economic factors all mixing at just the wrong freaking time. for chrissakes, trump is spending similar to obama but there is no financial crisis being faced... and republicans in power pretend as if such a bill is not gonna need come due in their lifetime. we made over 14% on our extreme conservative investments this year, which is great but we know such is not good news for the economy. so in 2015, predict a republican President spending the way trump has and a republican house and senate letting him do so? right. we are so far through the looking-glass, but most don't even realize. 

situation is unique and historians is gonna be puzzling at causes for decades. is not as simple as gd suggests. is not a predictable story of sewer rats being sewer rats save for by using an extreme reductionist perspective.

 HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

situation is unique and historians is gonna be puzzling at causes for decades. is not as simple as gd suggests. is not a predictable story of sewer rats being sewer rats save for by using an extreme reductionist perspective.

No, Trump is just a corrupt piece of **** surrounded by corrupt pieces of ****. Sure, the details aren't simple, but the root cause of Trump is simply Trump.

[Lexx]

imo American politics is f'd either way. I have big doubts about it ever getting better again. Personally I just hope it'll get back to a point where I don't have to strongly fear it's negative influence on my country and / or the rest of Europe anymore.

[Raithe]

 

[Guard Dog]

11 hours ago, Gromnir said:

and nixon?

so, the last two times we actual had the House go through with impeachment, it were not just sewer rat business.. and when one considers that despite the sewer rat business, the House has only gotten where we are three other times...

we got a unique situation, and is not 'cause tyler actual faced an articles of impeachment vote in 1843 that we are facing this crisis. if trump excesses is ignored gd won't be able to blame history. yeah, the system is inherent skewed towards fickleness 'cause is the House which decides impeachment, and the House faces popular elections every-other years. 

history is gonna look back at this perfect storm o' stoopidity and see inevitability such as does gd, but not for same reasons at all. sure, given the degree o' insane gerrymandering we have indulged in these recent decades, aided by ai and computer models complete outside the imagination o' the founders, a President with barely 40% approval rating may have an armbar grip on his own party. the "acting" nonsense for cabinet positions is relative new in history and needs die as it is blatant unconstitutional even if it has been convenient. regardless, such nonsense allows the President to have a cabinet populated by folks never vetted by the senate. the emergency powers granted by Congress to the President needs be reconsidered. etc.

wasn't past impeachments which got us here at this point in 2019. is an improbable mix o' technological factors and social factors and economic factors all mixing at just the wrong freaking time. for chrissakes, trump is spending similar to obama but there is no financial crisis being faced... and republicans in power pretend as if such a bill is not gonna need come due in their lifetime. we made over 14% on our extreme conservative investments this year, which is great but we know such is not good news for the economy. so in 2015, predict a republican President spending the way trump has and a republican house and senate letting him do so? right. we are so far through the looking-glass, but most don't even realize. 

situation is unique and historians is gonna be puzzling at causes for decades. is not as simple as gd suggests. is not a predictable story of sewer rats being sewer rats save for by using an extreme reductionist perspective.

 HA! Good Fun!

Actually the inevitability of where we are today is because, as Mencken predicted in the 1930's we elected a fool to the office.  There is more to respond to here but time is short. I have business in Nashville today so I'll come back to this later.