Deadfire Polishing Poll

[Phenomenum]

Maybe i should consider to cut some KW. I need to take a closer look on my whole list.

[Boeroer]

Something related to my "copy" question and maybe a thing for a mod (since Obsidian doesn't seem to be interested in improving this):

 

How difficult would it be to give abilities new icons? I'm asking because a lot of abilites (especially passives) share the same icon - which is confusing and also a bit boring at the same time.

 

Besides the effort of creating new icons (I would do it if I knew that this is possible): is this something that can be done with a mod?

[Phenomenum]

It's easy, i can do this, even paint from scratch (and trinkets icons too) but i need some ideas and references - otherwise it will be time consuming.

[Boeroer]

Really? Also for the existing passives like Bull's Will and so on? Cool!

 

I could do quick mockup vector graphics just to give some ideas and inspiration.

[MaxQuest]

So we need to be extra careful not to accidentially create some OP stuff. Let's see...

Yeap. That's why I would prefer to avoid giving trinkets a power level bonus to:

- restoration

- beast, plant and rejuvenation

- and more than 1 elemenetal keyword at a time (we already have Greater Maelstrom and Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff...)

 

Also it's worth to keep in mind that priest/druid will be able to wear either of the trinkets we are coming with.

 

Maybe i should consider to cut some KW. I need to take a closer look on my whole list.

Just a random thought: is it worth to separate Condemnation from Punishment a bit?

v1. Condemnation being hostile effects that don't deal damage (they just condemn). While Punishment being hostile effects that deal damage.

v2. Condemnation being hostile effects that don't deal damage and affect only Mind. While Punishment being hostile effects that deal damage or affect Body.

 

Another question: if we would give Prayers and Litanies a "secret" keyword that we would invent... something like "123365_fsdfsdfdsf" - and hide it from the player but only use to boost PL of individual abilities - would that solve the problem which you mentioned (interfering with other mods that want to affect Prayers and so on)?

That keyword would have to be included in KeywordsIDs array property of each Prayer and Litany.

If some mod overwrites that... the changes will be overriden.

 

The solution would be to place trinkets most at the end of the list.

 

P.S. Regarding icons, BMac had a guide for that. There is some fuss with some "atlases". But yeah, it's possible.

Edited April 9, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Also it's worth to keep in mind that priest/druid will be able to wear either of the trinkets we are coming with.

Good point. Same with Priest/Wizard and Druid/Wizard.

 

Especially if we allow to switch them like grimoires (where the additional trinkets can be put into the Quick Slots). Do we?

[MaxQuest]

Those that "add" spells are based on grimoires, and are switchable by default.

 

I've never tried to switch non-grimoire trinkets... so don't even know if it is not possible)

[Boeroer]

Example for trinkets part 2 (keep in mind: just ideas):
 
Druid:

• Shrunken Head of the Pŵgra
  • Appearance: make an educated guess...
  • Description: This pŵgra had been corrupted by the destruction of their home tree. Just as delemgan seek to maintain the health of their forests, pŵgra seek to corrupt them. Since they can no longer draw essence from a healthy forest, they must survive by drawing energy and essence out of plants, animals, and kith. The rot that infects them usually endows their attacks with a ghastly poison. This shrunken head seems to have a similar effect on you as soon as you wear it. Pŵgra decorate themselves with the skulls, skins, and feathers of enemies they've killed. Now you can do the same.
  • Effects:
    • Corrupting Roots: +1 PEN with all Decay abilites (like Spirit of Decay, stacks), -20% healing done
    • contained spells:
      1. Touch of Rot
      2. Autumn's Decay
      3. Spreading Plague
      4. Form of the Pŵrga (as Form of the Delemgan, but keyword Decay instead of Beast  +6 corrode instead of burn AR, +6 slash instead of pierce AR and immune to poison and disease instead of dex afflictions)
      5. Putrefaction (like Nature's Terror, but corrosion damage, keywords Elements & Decay)
      6. Rot Skulls
      7. Rusted Armor
      8. Entropy
      9. Touch of Death
• Wooden Grub
  • Appearance: 
  • Description: 
  • effects:
    • Lord of the Bugs: +1 lvl-2. +1 lvl-3, +1 lvl 5 and +1 lvl 9 spell uses, -3 PL to all Plant spells
    • contained spells:
      1. Charm Beasts
      2. Insect Swarm, Hold Beasts
      3. Beetle Shell, Infestation of Maggots
      4. -
      5. Plague of Insects
      6. -
      7. -
      8. -
      9. -
• The Changeling's Fleece
  • Description: a nondescript piece of fur of unknown origin.
  • Effects:
    • Changeling: spiritshift turns into modal (? what about Shifter? or spiritshift duration +200%), -5 PL to all Druid spells except Taste of the Hunt (possible?)
    • Natural Born Predator: +10% melee dmg while shifted
    • contained spells:
      1. Taste of the Hunt
      2. Taste of the Hunt
      3. Taste of the Hunt

 

As I said: just some ideas and inspirations. Brainstorming sort of. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

> Do like "Shrunken Head of the Pŵgra" idea. But what do you think of alternative name of something like "Pŵgra's Withered Talon"? Just askin'

 

 

> Wooden Grub: the insects theme is ok. But I don't think that beast spells (Charm Beasts / Hold Beasts) fit here. I would rather drop them, provided bonus spell-usages from Lord of the Bugs are already strong enough of a boost.

 

 

> The Changeling's Fleece: this one feels wonky. That PL exception is doable via -5PL debuff, new keyword added to Taste of the Hunt, and +5PL passive buff to that keyword. But it requires some fuss; and also clones for Taste of the Hunt (if we wan't Ability Ranks to be 1, 2, 3). It also rises the already mentioned: what about Shifter? And additionally it leads to a bit spamy gameplay, when you just shift and use 6 Taste of the Hunt in a row. It will be fun and powerful in the beginning. But after awhile can get boring.

Edited April 10, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Do like "Shrunken Head of the Pŵgra" idea. But what do you think of alternative name of something like "Pŵgra's Withered Talon"? Just askin'

Sure. The apprearance doesn't really matter to me.

 

Wooden Grub: the insects theme is ok. But I don't think that beast spells (Charm Beasts / Hold Beasts) fit here. I would rather drop them, provided bonus spell-usages from Lord of the Bugs are already strong enough of a boost.

I didn't know if it's possible or worthwhile to create an "bugs-only" version of each of those so I kept it vanilla. Also because the main motivation for trinkets is not only to allow fancy builds but also to provide the Druid with situationally useful spells that he wouldn't pick normally - because they are too situational to justify the use of an ability point. Of course once could simply take them away here and create a seperate trinket for that purpose (like a dressage whip ). I mean you can switch trinkets during encounter - so there's no harm if they are not all equally good - but still provide some flexibility.

 

The Changeling's Fleece: this one feels wonky. That PL exception is doable via -5PL debuff, new keyword added to Taste of the Hunt, and +5PL passive buff to that keyword. But it requires some fuss; and also clones for Taste of the Hunt (if we wan't Ability Ranks to be 1, 2, 3). It also rises the already mentioned: what about Shifter? And additionally it leads to a bit spamy gameplay, when you just shift and use 6 Taste of the Hunt in a row. It will be fun and powerful in the beginning. But after awhile can get boring.

Yes, wasn't sure about it either but just put some ideas there. My motivation for this is: I don't like the current Shifter implementation at all. You don't emphasize on a single form (let's say Boar) and bring it to perfection but istead you shift into everything. I get that's more changelin-ish and galawain-like, sure - but I still don't like that idea. Also not from a roleplaying perpective. I try to find a portrait and look that resembles a bit the form I'm shifting into - you know really embracing the Spiritshift form - but with a Shifter you're like a Kid who can't decide between Hotdogs or Burgers. I always wanted the Shifter to get a spiritshift modal and disabled spellcasting while the modal is active.

But then we got this other Shifter - now the trinket can't just cancel spellcasting while shifted (where's the disadvantage or use for the Shifter at all) - instead I thought a general -5 PL would be nice. I mean you can easily switch away if you need better spells - but it will demotivate from casting spells as long as you use it. Maybe one could just exclude Shifters from use (? possible) and then indeed turn Spiritshift into a modal that disables spellcasting?

Taste of the Hunt: I think that it's a pity that you can only use it 2/encounter max, especially for SC Druids. It was also just a test balloon to see what people would think about stuff like that.

 

All not set in stone of course. Just some random ideas.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

but also to provide the Druid with situationally useful spells that he wouldn't pick normally - because they are too situational to justify the use of an ability point

Good point)

Just need to find something which would bring insects and beasts together thematically. Although it's kinda hard, if it also has to "rule out" plants stuff (or rejuvenation).

 

My motivation for this is: I don't like the Shifter idea at all. You don't emphasize on a single form (let's say Boar) and bring it to perfection but you shift into everything. I don't like that idea. ALso not from a roleplaying perpective.

Partially share this feeling. As I often prefer specialization.

But also like slight flexibility.

 

I would rather see, Shifter having a shifting on modal which he can use unlimited amount of times.

But, he:

- either has access to 1 form only. And can change it on level-up... or maybe even on rest.

- or have access to 1 constant form. And unlock an additional form later in the game.

[Boeroer]

As I said: the Hold Beast and Charm Beast spells could as well go to another trinket. One called "The Tamer". Or "The Beast Whisperer", hehe. Would be a nice trinket for a "Beastmaster" I guess.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

I could do quick mockup vector graphics just to give some ideas and inspiration.

 

Go on)

 

Also it's worth to keep in mind that priest/druid will be able to wear either of the trinkets we are coming with.

 

Emm... I think that trinkets must be restricted to class - only for priest and only for duids.

 

And another thing: Please. KEEP. YOUR. HANDS and MINDS. OUT. OF. SHIFTER.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Phenomenum

[MaxQuest]

And another thing: Please. KEEP. YOUR. HANDS and MINDS. OUT. OF. SHIFTER.

Aha! so someone actually likes them

 

Emm... I think that trinkets must be restricted to class - only for priest and only for duids.

We meant multi-classes characters, like Universalists)

 

As I said: the Hold Beast and Charm Beast spells could as well go to another trinket. One called "The Tamer". Or "The Beast Whisperer", hehe. Would be a nice trinket for a "Beastmaster" I guess.

Beastmaster idea/name sounds good)

 

But heh) the first thing that came to mind (regarding whisperer) was:

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Autocthon]

I'm surprised there wasn't a "Redo Soul Whip Cipher Talent". I recently realized Soul Whip has no power level scaling and that made me very sad.

[Phenomenum]

Aha! so someone actually likes them

Yeah, my Trickster/Shifter still waiting for Obsidian patch + our Mod and Trinkets)

 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised there wasn't a "Redo Soul Whip Cipher Talent". I recently realized Soul Whip has no power level scaling and that made me very sad.

I blame multiclassing for that. Becose Sneak Attack bonus is scaling up to 70% (75% with Prestige passive) and combined with scaled Soul Whip it will be...hm, too much damage.

In fact, most of abilities was nerfed, ONLY becose multiclass sinergies makes them too OP.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Phenomenum

[dunehunter]

This is a great thread, hopefully the devs can check this and take it as part of their next patch. Maybe too late to join the party but here's my two cents:

 

For Rogue, i hope they can make backstab & assassin more useful in late game and less strong in early game, maybe better scale on it's damage bonus because now it's really strong in early game but really meh later when enemy has increased health.

 

For Monk, maybe the more priority thing to fix is synergy between Resonant Touch & Blunderbuss? Because for me, soloing a mega boss within less time than a whole party can is ridiculous.

 

For Wizard, I just hope they can buff Confused affliction related spells like Confusion, maybe give these spell an 2nd effect to make them match what they were in Pillars 1.

Edited April 11, 2019 by dunehunter

[Jayd]

I'm just here to say that shapeshifting has been my favourite thing in RPG games since before I played NWN1 as a lad. I don't think Shifter is in too bad a place, I just wish there was some way to restore shifts (if there are ways to get back tier-9 spells there should be a way to restore shifts, especially for the subclass built around them) and the healing on unshifting was better.

 

Or just buff them like crazy. Seriously, throw me a bone here - somehow I never like the "good thing". Although my other favourite class is Monk, so I won there.

[Boeroer]

I didn't actually say that Shifters are bad. I just don't like the mechanic Obsidian implemented in Deadfire to realize them. Instead of focusing on one form a Shifter transforms into all of them. Just a different approach to focus on shifting itself - but not one I would have used. 'Cause it makes all Shifters the same. Focusing on one particular form (and turning it into a modal) would allow multiple distinct shifter builds.  

 

That trinket wouldn't touch Shifters at all - but would turn any other Druid into sort of a Shifter - but one who focuses on one single form (as long as the trinket is active).

 

So I don't understand the

 

Please. KEEP. YOUR. HANDS and MINDS. OUT. OF. SHIFTER.

statement. But as I said mutiple times: only some random ideas about what you could do with trinkets.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

Some crazy ideas. Just for the record.

Wooden Heart of Delemgan. It still beating.

 

Teapot from Eir Glanfath. Elegant masterpiece of art, carved from solid piece of rare wood, growing in Eir Glanfath.

 

Ice shard from White March. It's strange, but this small piece of ice, taken from Russetwood crater, don't melts even under hot tropical sun of Deadfire.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

Cool.

 

What about these mockups for ability icons? Right direction?

Preview:

Vector graphics source:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewmpqc2qm4n3e63/new_ability_icons_v_0_1.svg?dl=0

[Jayd]

I didn't actually say that Shifters are bad. I just don't like the mechanic Obsidian implemented in Deadfire to realize them. Instead of focusing on one form a Shifter transforms into all of them. Just a different approach to focus on shifting itself - but not one I would have used. 'Cause it makes all Shifters the same. Focusing on one particular form (and turning it into a modal) would allow multiple distinct shifter builds.  

 

That trinket wouldn't touch Shifters at all - but would turn any other Druid into sort of a Shifter - but one who focuses on one single form (as long as the trinket is active).

 

So I don't understand the

 

Please. KEEP. YOUR. HANDS and MINDS. OUT. OF. SHIFTER.

statement. But as I said mutiple times: only some random ideas about what you could do with trinkets.

I didn't misunderstand you and didn't mean my comment as a response to yours. I just saw people mentioning Shifters and couldn't contain myself. I'm fine with 

 

Something I forgot: please, please, PLEASE make Survivor's Tusks headbutt attack per encounter instead of per rest! The other SSS soulbounds have per encounter actives. It is not good enough to be per rest by any stretch of the imagination. I feel like someone must have made a mistake. It obviously should be per encounter. It annoys me whenever I think of it.

 

And make Stag Carnage good.

[Phenomenum]

Great! Just don't tell me you did this while eating your breakfast

One thing: DW, Two hand and One hand weapon styles looks very similar and... so so (in my taste). Okay, just checked - i can edit .svg in PS. That's great. I will take a closer look on weekend.
 

And make Stag Carnage good.

I'll try to do something on weekend. This ****ty **** bothers me too. All of us, in fact.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

I actually did it while cooking lunch - sort of.

 

Yeah - if you have a good idea for the weapon "styles" I'm all ears. Weapon & Shield Style is ok as it is (just a shield icon) I think.

[Boeroer]

Would this be any better?