Deadfire Polishing Poll

[MaxQuest]

On 5/23/2019 at 12:43 PM, Majber said:

How can I download this mod?

As Wormerine has already linked, here's the link to current beta:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WFlBV_nkWk8E9ppQqiqLbljMWHjicENd

And here's the link to current patch notes: Basic, Extra

22 hours ago, Majber said:

Please add link to mod and maybe changelog to 1st post. 

My initial idea, was to post beta here, without it getting a 'big attention' before it is tested by a few more players, and before we have circumvented the Missing Strings for non EN/RU localizations.

When we are done, we'll post it on nexus, and as a separate thread in Modding subforum, with the links all over the place ^^

P.S. Unfortunately I can't edit the 1st post. It seems that after redesign it is no longer possible to edit posts that are 8+ days old.
I've posted about this issue twice, here. Unfortunately there is still no response.

11 hours ago, dunehunter said:

Sorry if I don’t read the original thread, but are there any reason to not have a vote to buff fighter’s weapon specialization and mastery talent? They looks so bad to me there’s no reason we don’t buff them.

There was a "Deadfire Polishing Thread" running for 3 weeks prior to the poll.
And it's scope was to discuss, suggest, identify and select the somewhat minimal amount of changes that would be beneficial to game's balance the most. Because we were hoping that Obsidian might do some of them, and didn't want to disperse their resources.

Now that we know that Obsidian won't be doing a balance pass... we could consider adding some small buffs. And changing values is both quick and simple.

Personally, I would buff Weapon Mastery from 5% to 10%. But would leave Weapon Specialization as is.
What are your thoughts on this?

Edited May 24, 2019 by MaxQuest

[AndreaColombo]

I agree re Specialization and Mastery.

Mastery at +5% doesn’t feel much like “mastery” at all, and a buff to 10% feels warranted.

Specialization at 15%, on the other hand, would possibly be too good compared to the already-buffed Improved Critical, which also provides +15% but adds the condition that you must crit to get it.

[Phenomenum]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Better?

Better. Honestly i can't imagine how to make this icon Super Good so let it be.

[Boeroer]

mkay

[MaxQuest]

22 hours ago, dunehunter said:

Why the backstab to flat damage is included in the CommunityPatchBasic, shouldn't it only include changes which has poll > 66%? I only installed the basic one but my backstab is broken, also it is not working, no extra raw damage.

It's a communication error from my part.

I was initially looking at simple suggestions of the form:
- a). do want this change
- b). do not change

So:
- if a) had 66% or more, the suggestion was going into Basic.
- if a) was between 51% and 65%, the suggestion was going into Extra.

And another approach (v2) could be:
- if b) had 34% or less, the suggestion was going into Basic.
- if b) was between 35% and 49%, the suggestion was going into Extra.

since it's the same thing (in this case).

------

And then I arrived to suggestions with multiple options, like fighter's Toughened Fury:

- a). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 20%  | 46.6%
- b). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 15%  | 13.7%
- c). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 10% on incoming crit and 5% on incoming hit  | 28.8%
- d). other: 7.9%
- e). do not change: 3%

In this case, only 3% were against the change, yet the first approach doesn't really work, unless we group up the suggestions.
So 89.1% are voting for the change, and since we can implement only 1 thing, the choice goes for the option a).

And since 3% is less than 34%, this suggestion was added to Basic.

---

And similar thing with Backstab:
- a). let backstab deal 18 raw damage (+5% per PL)  | 37.1%
- b). let backstab have higher damage coefficient with a melee one-handed weapon; And extra bonus if it is light melee weapon  | 32.9%
- c). let backstab have higher damage coefficient with a light, melee one-handed weapon  | 14.3%
- d). other: 4.3%
- e). do not change: 11.4%

Since only 11.4% are against this change, I've put this into Basic, because I used v2 approach.
Additionally my rationale was: 84.3% would like to see Backstab reworked in order for it to be efficient even with light weapons. (as per suggestion's title).

But, if you don't like it, and want Backstab change to be moved to Extra, we can do it, if no one is against, and someone chimes in to support/second your request.

P.S. Additionally, Phenomenum has proposed to move a few 'bug fixes' that were not mentioned in the poll, from Extra to Basic; for example: Rot Skulls zero penetration fix, Boar Spiritshift regen tooltip.

What's your view on this?

22 hours ago, dunehunter said:

Also does it make more sense if we change Paladin's Virtuous Triumph to 50% on kill gain zeal, we shall also change barb's to same quality?

I think that it is easier for barb to secure last-hits. 
Also don't forget about mayhem that a Barb can inflict with Blood Thirst + Barbaric Smash / HoF / Roar.
On the other hand though, Blood Surge is a rank 9  passive.

And thus my current view is: it could be increased from 25% to 30% or 33%. While setting it 50% causes some doubts.

What you say?:

• leave it at 25%
• 30%
• 33%
• insist on 50%

22 hours ago, dunehunter said:

Also, should this ability be a level 0 ability since u get it automatically on level 0? Faith and Conviction -> Deep Faith can follow the upgrade tree but the Penetrating imbue should be at lvl 0 imo.

I have forwarded your PM to Phenomenum, and afaik he already moved it.

1 hour ago, AndreaColombo said:

Specialization at 15%, on the other hand, would possibly be too good compared to the already-buffed Improved Critical, which also provides +15% but adds the condition that you must crit to get it.

Not to mention that since MIG bonus is taken in additive manner... having high damage bonuses from elsewhere a bit undermines the incentive to go for high MIG, if you want to focus only on weapon damage.

Legendary (0.6) + Two-Handed Style (0.15) + Suggested Weapon Mastery (0.1) + Suggested Weapon Specialization (0.15) = 1

Meaning that going from 10 MIG to 20 MIG, would only increase the final damage coefficient from 2 to 2.3, and that's.. a +15% relative damage increase.

Edited May 24, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Phenomenum]

7 minutes ago, MaxQuest said:

I have forwarded your PM to Phenomenum, and afaik he already moved it.

Yep.

[Phenomenum]

15 minutes ago, MaxQuest said:

Not to mention that since MIG bonus is taken in additive manner... having high damage bonuses from elsewhere a bit undermines the incentive to go for high MIG, if you want to focus only on weapon damage.

I wouldn't change +5% Damage Weapon Mastery (too blunt approach), but i look forward to add some additional passive buff - Graze to Hit conversion or Acc bonus with proficient weapon or something else. Thoughts?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

58 minutes ago, MaxQuest said:

It's a communication error from my part.

I was initially looking at simple suggestions of the form:
- a). do want this change
- b). do not change

So:
- if a) had 66% or more, the suggestion was going into Basic.
- if a) was between 51% and 65%, the suggestion was going into Extra.

And another approach (v2) could be:
- if b) had 34% or less, the suggestion was going into Basic.
- if b) was between 35% and 49%, the suggestion was going into Extra.

since it's the same thing (in this case).

------

And then I arrived to suggestions with multiple options, like fighter's Toughened Fury:

- a). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 20%  | 46.6%
- b). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 15%  | 13.7%
- c). change 10% gain discipline on incoming crit: to 10% on incoming crit and 5% on incoming hit  | 28.8%
- d). other: 7.9%
- e). do not change: 3%

In this case, only 3% were against the change, yet the first approach doesn't really work, unless we group up the suggestions.
So 89.1% are voting for the change, and since we can implement only 1 thing, the choice goes for the option a).

And since 3% is less than 34%, this suggestion was added to Basic.

---

And similar thing with Backstab:
- a). let backstab deal 18 raw damage (+5% per PL)  | 37.1%
- b). let backstab have higher damage coefficient with a melee one-handed weapon; And extra bonus if it is light melee weapon  | 32.9%
- c). let backstab have higher damage coefficient with a light, melee one-handed weapon  | 14.3%
- d). other: 4.3%
- e). do not change: 11.4%

Since only 11.4% are against this change, I've put this into Basic, because I used v2 approach.
Additionally my rationale was: 84.3% would like to see Backstab reworked in order for it to be efficient even with light weapons. (as per suggestion's title).

But, if you don't like it, and want Backstab change to be moved to Extra, we can do it, if no one is against, and someone chimes in to support/second your request.

P.S. Additionally, Phenomenum has proposed to move a few 'bug fixes' that were not mentioned in the poll, from Extra to Basic; for example: Rot Skulls zero penetration fix, Boar Spiritshift regen tooltip.

What's your view on this?

Like yours. I already tried to explain but it was futile.

>66% pro change (when multiple pro change options: <=34% no change) --> basic.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

Just now, Boeroer said:

>66% pro change (when multiple pro change options: <=35% no change) --> basic. 

But "multiple options" regarding Backstab was totally different. Acting like this, we can move all poll suggestion to Basic, because all suggestions has >66% votes "to change".
So i prefer leave Backstab to Extras. I think it will be more accurate interpretation of pole.

[AndreaColombo]

Re weapon mastery: How about we make the 5% a raw damage lash?

[Phenomenum]

16 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Re weapon mastery: How about we make the 5% a raw damage lash? 

Too much Raw damage) I'd rather add +5 Accuracy with prof. weapons.

[AndreaColombo]

That also works for me.

[Phenomenum]

It seems logical - if you know how to handle with your favorite weapons, your hits will be more accurate. In other words +5 Accuracy = +5% Miss to Graze, Graze to Hit and Hit to Crit conversion.

[Boeroer]

Not really since it doesn't stack the same way as a conversion.

But I agree that it makes a lot of sense to connect mastery not only to damage but also to accuracy. If a Ranger can be a Marksman (+ACC) then a weapon master should also get +ACC.

[AndreaColombo]

I’m sold

[MaxQuest]

28 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

Re weapon mastery: How about we make the 5% a raw damage lash?

Ehh, I don't really like such small lashes. 

10 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

Too much Raw damage) I'd rather add +5 Accuracy with prof. weapons.

I do like this accuracy approach. It doesn't "dilute" the might score, and increases reliability.

[Phenomenum]

Well... Then i'll do it today, in the evening. In Extras of course.

[Phenomenum]

@dunehunter Considering Backstab. We discussed this question with Max and decided to leave it in Basic, for now. The reason is simple - without this mod, Backstab ability is totally broken for many players since 4.1.0 update and it was not fixed with 5.0. It's works unstable for some players, or doesn't work at all from Invincibility (for me).

To fix this bug i have changed ability activation mechanics via additional scripts.

If vanilla Backstab works fine for you, you can simply delete file "cl.rogue.backstab" from ...override\CommunityPatchBasic\design\gamedata folder.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Phenomenum

[dukeisaac]

4 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

As Wormerine has already linked, here's the link to current beta:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WFlBV_nkWk8E9ppQqiqLbljMWHjicENd

And here's the link to current patch notes: Basic, Extra

My initial idea, was to post beta here, without it getting a 'big attention' before it is tested by a few more players, and before we have circumvented the Missing Strings for non EN/RU localizations.

When we are done, we'll post it on nexus, and as a separate thread in Modding subforum, with the links all over the place ^^

P.S. Unfortunately I can't edit the 1st post. It seems that after redesign it is no longer possible to edit posts that are 8+ days old.
I've posted about this issue twice, here. Unfortunately there is still no response.

There was a "Deadfire Polishing Thread" running for 3 weeks prior to the poll.
And it's scope was to discuss, suggest, identify and select the somewhat minimal amount of changes that would be beneficial to game's balance the most. Because we were hoping that Obsidian might do some of them, and didn't want to disperse their resources.

Now that we know that Obsidian won't be doing a balance pass... we could consider adding some small buffs. And changing values is both quick and simple.

Personally, I would buff Weapon Mastery from 5% to 10%. But would leave Weapon Specialization as is.
What are your thoughts on this?

Superb work to all involved. Looking forward to the final version. Question: do you expect any issues between the community patch and current saved games ? Thanks !

[dunehunter]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Like yours. I already tried to explain but it was futile.

>66% pro change (when multiple pro change options: <=34% no change) --> basic.

I understand what you mean, I just agree more with Phenomenum about the poll that has multiple vote that close to each other, like what if u have a poll that has sth like 34%, 33%, 32%? Picking any of these 3 is reliable to me, same case as backstab, 1st vote and 2nd vote is very close to each other. But I aspect maxquest's decision on these.

[dunehunter]

2 hours ago, MaxQuest said:

I think that it is easier for barb to secure last-hits. 
Also don't forget about mayhem that a Barb can inflict with Blood Thirst + Barbaric Smash / HoF / Roar.
On the other hand though, Blood Surge is a rank 9  passive.

And thus my current view is: it could be increased from 25% to 30% or 33%. While setting it 50% causes some doubts.

What you say?:

• leave it at 25%
• 30%
• 33%
• insist on 50%

Thanks for explanation, I think it's fine to leave it at 25% then.

[theBalthazar]

Blood surge could be at 33 %

It is a level 9 ability.

For tight scores, I think in this case, we must choose the closest result to the original game.

Edited May 24, 2019 by theBalthazar

[Boeroer]

one last time before I freeze them and they go into production (this time the naked symbols - how they will get used in game - but then scaled down to 42x42) 

this version is scaled down a bit for convenience. Phenomenum will get a higher RES.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Man I'm tired...

[Boeroer]

Something different: while the scaling of Arcane Archer's imbue spells with Arcana is a nice fix (thanks for that implementation), it has one issue: the initial shot (the arrow/bullet etc.) will also profit from it, and that already scales with weapon quality and Power Level and can get buffed by modal. Which leads to rather absurd PEN with the shot roll itself.

Is there an easy way to apply the PEN scaling with Arcana to the imbue spell only and not the shot? Or is this already "fixed"?