Anthem

[ktchong]

Seems that Anthem is getting poor reviews and the sales will fall way short of projections.  EA will very likely shut down BioWare if Anthem bombs.  As a former BioWare fan, I say GOOD RIDDANCE.   I hope that EA will shut down BioWare Edmonton - or, better yet, just close the whole BioWare altogether.  Just put BioWare out of our misery already. BioWare is squatting in the precious top spot for WRPG developers, which BioWare no longer deserves.  It needs to vacate that spot so that other better more deserving studio can take over.

 

P.S. We should start a "Developer Dead Pool", and make bets on the order in which BioWare, Blizzard, or Bethesda will be dead.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by ktchong

[ktchong]

Edited February 24, 2019 by ktchong

[injurai]

BioWare is only the trademark of a registered corporate entity, running out of a building with a familiar address. What people like to mean by BioWare died a long time ago. If "BioWare" really does, at least fans can be at ease. Probably not a great feeling to see your dead aunt's visage reanimated.

[ktchong]

EA should just shut down BioWare, and then create another distribution client or engine, can call it "BioWare".  Seems like a fitting end for BioWare.

Edited February 24, 2019 by ktchong

[Wormerine]

I see no reason to be happy about Anthem's poor reception nor will I find satisfaction in seeing people loose jobs, even is it's been years since I enjoyed/was interested in a Bioware title.

 

Considering EA's history, a "restructuring" is not out of bounds. As Bioware's games made quite an impact on me, I will be sad to see the company go, even if it hasn't been what it used since a massive post Mass Effect2 growth. I am still waiting for my Jade Empire2, though probably at this point it would be at best an open world mess with microtransactions. 

[SonicMage117]

Like anything else, something else will rise up in it's place, worse than before and then people will complain about that.

[Hurlshort]

Super reasonable to root for people to lose their jobs. Classy.

[injurai]

Super reasonable to root for people to lose their jobs. Classy.

 

The other way of looking at this, is EA corporate runs high risk hail marry strategies that chase trends, and it is they who put their own employees at risk. So in a round about way, you are rooting for a capital entity to eat dirt so healthier publishers that better sustain their employees are the institutions that persist. Of course the games industry runs in cycles like anything else so at the end of the cycle their is really nothing you can do about it anyways.

 

Honestly I see sentiments like yours often on more reactionary game forums and usually it's always a way to assert one's moral superiority over an OPs schadenfreude. While I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I am saying that it's also not great to conflate a person's intent as being something else. Consumers don't like being taken advantage of and in a world where so much of the power is held among sell out journos, it's not surprising when someone salivates at the demise of "soulless interactive experience brokerage farms." The thought of wage slaves ultimately taking the fall is not necessarily on the persons mind, because that's a second order result, and certainly not the one they are hoping first in the moment.

 

Anyways, I literally cannot remember the last time EA made something that I was actually interested in. Obviously they are doing high volumes of business but I chalk that up mostly to hopeful hype, every IP being a mini-monopoly on an experience, and a large treasure trove of advertising funds that keeps naive (mostly young) consumers feeding from the trough.

Edited February 24, 2019 by injurai

[Fenixp]

In a world where so much of the power is held among sell out journos ... The thought of wage slaves ultimately taking the fall is not necessarily on the persons mind.

In the grim dark future of the 21st millenium, the world is ruled by the super-rich caste of sell-out journalists who direct the sheep at the entertainment they want consumed. In their diabolical scheme, the poor wage slaves are forced to spend the last of their hard-earned currency to purchase entertainment that these powerful journalists approved!

...

I'm sorry, that's so ridiculous I've had to laugh out loud.

 

Anyway,

a) Running about, wishing for a company's demise is just in extremely poor taste, especially when it's happening on a semi-competitive company's discussion boards.

b) I just don't understand how can a person get so emotionally involved with a company that doesn't give a tosh about said person that he'd actively spit this kind of bile in their general direction, but hey, it's the internet - I suppose it's simply in the work description of some posters to ... USE THEIR SELL-OUT FORUM POST POWER TO POST SAID BILE! Mwehehehehehe.

[injurai]

Journos do hold a soft power, and they lack a lot of autonomy because they are debt saddled graduates mostly in which their job's incentive models is that when they happen to write stuff that advertising publishers like, then those publishers continue to pay for exposure. Which means journos self edit and chase a certain flavor of plausible deniability while essentially shilling. It also helps if their taste aligns with what they get to report on anyways. Which is why if a bad review does come out the publishers take the hit to not trigger a Streisand effect, but essentially reach out to reviewers who they anticipate an acceptable review based on their history of opinion.

 

You'd be surprised how amenable the young population is to popularity trends, especially ones that half-sell what they want but smuggle in the monetary models that make the heaviest demands on the families wallets. There is a reason youth culture dominates in America, they are easy to sell to and their parents cave in. It's less about approval is more about exposure to products and ease of extracting cash. I think we can all despise the roulette racket that is being sold to the world's youth.

 

Also wage slaves is the term I used to reference to the developers stuck at the mercy of their employer, not the "poor powerless consumer who exert discretion." So that entire first argument of yours is railing against a scenario I never setup in the first place.

 

On a and b. The fact that people can earn their living doing creative technical work to create luxury entertainment products is a great testament to human progress, and having dedicated themselves to that career path it's helpful that they continue to find employment. Of course one doesn't wish for the employees demise, but also realize a company is not a person and also comes with it's own sins. Good riddance to companies like Exxon, that should be a no brainer. Atari and Old Sega both were rife with their own sorts of malpractice, Konami is another recent example that comes to mind. I certainly don't hope anything bad happens to Obsidian and it's employees, but it's not like we want to bail out EA to save those jobs as some sort of economic crisis response because the thought of letting a bad business contract is too heinous. Saying also this on a game companies forum seems hardly in poor taste, especially when you want to reaffirm the desire that companies find business models that transfer less risk onto the employee. If something bad happens to Obsidian it won't be because of my post or this thread surely. I think you slightly over register rhetorical posturing as being outright bile, of course I think OP is wrong for thinking EA parting with BioWare is the solution when they are really one in the same at this point and all of EA really needs reform, which can happen by a changing of the guard on the board of investors when a new round of capital comes in as the old leaves with their head hung low. Which is just more proof that EA is just a transient shell and not really anything enduring other than it's IP portfolio.

[GhostofAnakin]

I see no reason to be happy about Anthem's poor reception nor will I find satisfaction in seeing people loose jobs, even is it's been years since I enjoyed/was interested in a Bioware title.

 

Considering EA's history, a "restructuring" is not out of bounds. As Bioware's games made quite an impact on me, I will be sad to see the company go, even if it hasn't been what it used since a massive post Mass Effect2 growth. I am still waiting for my Jade Empire2, though probably at this point it would be at best an open world mess with microtransactions. 

 

Yeah.  I'm not really seeing the upside to having LESS good games available because former talented studios get shut down, rather than hoping these developers/producers learn their lesson for the next game.

 

Granted, from what I've seen and read of Anthem it's not even close to the game I'd expect from "BioWare".  But I'm not entirely sure what them being shut down will do to improve future games?

[SonicMage117]

But I'm not entirely sure what them being shut down will do to improve future games?

It likely wouldn't benefit the industry in any way, even if Bioware made bad quality games, the revenue they bring into the industry is great for the industry as a whole. If I took the 5 biggest and most hated publishers, and put them out if commission ot wouldn't benefit the game industry in any way, it would definitely harm it though.

 

"You cut off a head, 2 will take it's place. Hail Hydra!"

[LadyCrimson]

Last Bioware game I remember playing was BG2. I bought Neverwinter but at the time the game crashed a lot on my rig and I never got around to going back to it. I think I bought Mass E. 1 quite a long time after it was already a hit, but never installed it. Yes I'm terrible.

 

Anthem seems like another game where an attempt is made to mash different gameplay styles/trends together hoping to attract a wider audience, but the mashing doesn't work well and the gameplay is mediocore, hence its attraction ends up being even less than if they had stuck to one focus. Maybe Bioware will be ok, maybe not, maybe EA will let them try again, maybe not. Either way it won't change the way the big-money *industry* does business overall, imo. Not when it's so much based on shareholders and unrealistic ballooning of annual/quarterly profit expectations because every "AAA" publisher wants to be the next Fortnite or whatever the current giant-win title is.

[Blarghagh]

P.S. We should start a "Developer Dead Pool", and make bets on the order in which BioWare, Blizzard, or Bethesda will be dead.

*snickers* What on earth are you talking about. Didn't Blizzard just announce record profits? Isn't Bethesda gearing up to release Doom, Wolfenstein and Rage titles soon? Just because comment sections are salty doesn't mean they're in trouble.

 

BioWare on the other hand, haven't been doing too well. I blame EA.

[Katphood]

Super reasonable to root for people to lose their jobs. Classy.

Yeah, because the money we pay for games grows on trees.

[Wormerine]

 

Super reasonable to root for people to lose their jobs. Classy.

 

The other way of looking at this, is EA corporate runs high risk hail marry strategies that chase trends, and it is they who put their own employees at risk. So in a round about way, you are rooting for a capital entity to eat dirt so healthier publishers that better sustain their employees are the institutions that persist. Of course the games industry runs in cycles like anything else so at the end of the cycle their is really nothing you can do about it anyways.

 

Honestly I see sentiments like yours often on more reactionary game forums and usually it's always a way to assert one's moral superiority over an OPs schadenfreude. While I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I am saying that it's also not great to conflate a person's intent as being something else. Consumers don't like being taken advantage of and in a world where so much of the power is held among sell out journos, it's not surprising when someone salivates at the demise of "soulless interactive experience brokerage farms." The thought of wage slaves ultimately taking the fall is not necessarily on the persons mind, because that's a second order result, and certainly not the one they are hoping first in the moment.

 

Anyways, I literally cannot remember the last time EA made something that I was actually interested in. Obviously they are doing high volumes of business but I chalk that up mostly to hopeful hype, every IP being a mini-monopoly on an experience, and a large treasure trove of advertising funds that keeps naive (mostly young) consumers feeding from the trough.

All odds are in EA's favour. I would be happy about Anthem's failure if that meant EA will sober up and start to care about their products and buying customers. I doubt Anthem's poor reception will change EA's mind, and developers who worked on the project will be one to take the fall, if EA decides that Bioware's reputation isn't something they can exploit anymore. I do hope the current AAA trend will crash, and that comporations will go back to business of making and selling individual games. But so far, there is no change in sight, corporation's growth is slowing down, but they still make more money then ever before and instead of investing into the future. They seem to be focused on squeezing as much money as they can by making even worse products and screwing over more emplyees. 

At the same time, I would like to avoid claiming that Anthem is all on EA - I don't know much oversight there is, and maybe folks at Bioware did want to make looter-shooter. Doing more or less the same game over and over must be tough for people working there, and I wouldn't blame them if they wanted to give something else a shot. There is a narrative floating around about EA forcing Bioware to develop a game outside their specialization, though I haven't seen a proof for that, outside speculations. Apex seems like a prime corporate product, and yet it is said to be a Respawn's own project. Of course, Respawn knows quite a bit about making multiplayer games, while Bioware's is yet to succeed outside single player RPG and Action/RPG hybrid. 

[SonicMage117]

And let's not forget, Anthem still has a core fanbase already - just like Fallout 76 so even through the backlash and low sales, I ask myself "Did the game really fail?"

 

I expected the sales to be lower than EA wanted but they have a certain "multiplayer" audience that will stick. Similar to those who play Siege, Division and so on.

 

"Success is only limited to our imagination and hard work, not our income or profit"

[Orogun01]

Big companies don't die that easy; Sega is still around, remember when they were Nintendo's competition?
Saying that Blizzard Activision or Bethesda will die because of one or two flops is just naive, maybe they won't be as big in the future but they just need a good hit to bounce back.
EA seems to have gotten that hit with APEX Legends, and I don't see them disbanding DICE or BW either. It is just a guess but the way the relationship between EA and Disney shows leads me to believe that EA might be a bit on the social justice side of things, which would go to explain why they have a culture where SJW feel comfortable enough to express their ideology in toxic ways.

[213374U]

I blame EA.

I remember you and I having a conversation about how MCA wasn't blameless for the mess that was KotOR2.

 

For some reason, that sprung to mind just now. Funny how the mind works.

 

In any case, I am frankly way past the point where I care about companies crashing and burning and people losing jobs as a result. I've been there twice, it wasn't the end of the world. If they are as "talented" as people constantly claim, they should have no problem finding other work, in the industry or elsewhere. And, if losing one's job is in fact the end of the world in 2019 America/Canada, maybe ask yourselves why instead of lashing out at people celebrating the fact that a business that has been producing nothing but broken crap that wouldn't fly in any other industry for close to ten years, may be about to cease to exist.

 

I don't expect "EA" to learn any lessons if Anthem bombs, of course. Best case scenario, the current CEO realizes that not every genre is FIFA, and you cannot produce an instant classic through design-by-committee -- only to be replaced a year later by some other faceless suit who's confident that he can turn Divinity 3 into a billion-dollar-a-year "service".

 

The only way anyone's going to learn any lasting lessons is through the bubble bursting. And that's never pretty.

[Gorth]

The only way anyone's going to learn any lasting lessons is through the bubble bursting. And that's never pretty.

 

Pretty much this. If a company (in this case EA and their Bioware subsidiary) is convinced their way forward is Battle Royale game and micro transactions, the only way to go forward is to do what they did. The market, being just as ruthless as any corporation, will then decide whether that model will stand the test of time. There are of course classier ways of commenting on it than just simple minded gloating and wishing people out of work.

[Zafar1981]

Good work EA for forcing an RPG story driven studio to make a looter shooter. You have DICE & Respawn to make ANTHEM but you choose Bioware because their time has come. 

[Essyllt]

A part of me wants to be sadistically gleeful at Anthem doing poorly - the heavy focus on that game meant, in part, that Andromeda was a mere shell of what it could and should have been as a new entry to the Mass Effect franchise. A series that is extremely special and close to my heart.

 

But at the same time... I feel this crushing weight of disappointment. Not because I wanted Anthem to do well, per say. But it's like - this was why Andromeda didn't get the love and care it deserved? Really? It's a bitter taste. 

 

I can't really say whether I want BioWare to disappear entirely or not. But I can say that I truly wish they could break away from EA. EA kills developers like a slow, corroding pestilence. 

[Malcador]

Always with ****ing screeching

[SonicMage117]

Kthcong made a video earlier today, she learned her topic didn't go over too well here so she took it to YouTube lol

[Mamoulian War]

 

The only way anyone's going to learn any lasting lessons is through the bubble bursting. And that's never pretty.

 Pretty much this. If a company (in this case EA and their Bioware subsidiary) is convinced their way forward is Battle Royale game and micro transactions, the only way to go forward is to do what they did. The market, being just as ruthless as any corporation, will then decide whether that model will stand the test of time. There are of course classier ways of commenting on it than just simple minded gloating and wishing people out of work.

The only people wishing people out of work are the spineless executives, with their unsustainable quest for all the money in the world.

 

Just look at Activision, despite record breaking earnings, they sack 750 people. Because it was still not enough. Companies with short term gain goals are the worst for the employment economy, and people should also think twice, if it is worth for them to work for such a company. Everyone has a choice to either work for smaller company as a programmer, or to work for a company, which won Worst Company in the USA twice in a row. If they choose the latter, there are consequences to that choice. Man can only blame himself, for his poor choices made.