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The future of Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny


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On 1/5/2021 at 11:54 PM, Ace of Spades said:

No I think he is on to something. Avowed is not a proper successor. Its just set in the same world but the story is completely independent from POE. Why would Josh stated that POE 3 would happen only if they are excited for it??? Obsidian wont just gonna abandon the game that basically saved them from bankruptcy. I am pretty convinced that they will finish up the trilogy in the future

Avowed does not seem to be POE3, and while POE2 was a successful Figstarter, it did not sell well so painting a new look on the franchise (3rd person/1st person) to try to attract new buyers makes production sense.

I do think it's telling and makes me very skeptical about Avowed is Sawyer unwillingness to be involved (burnout is understandable, but it's weird to put distance between a world you basically created) and the project director is someone who wasn't even involved in the Pillars games at Obsidian.

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He's not putting distance between that world - while you wrote your post he probably continued to write for the Pillars TTRPG.

Also - while he's not directing Avowed he said several times that he will give feedback during development. I wouldn't call that "unwillingness to be involved". 

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I personally dont believe we'll see PoE3. Games like that just dont bring in the big bucks so why would a company like Microsoft care? I am a bit lost regarding the whole "who works for whom and who owns what?" situation but unless the original team decides to turn to Kickstarter again I cant see a part three happening. Given the things mentioned above I dont think thats likely.

AND THAT REALLY SUCKS! I'd be willing to pay full price just for another DLC or expansion pack at this point. The setting would make this possible. Just expand the world map a little and fix some issues along the way. I always liked what Paradox is doing with Stellaris. That game is almost five years old now and still getting better.

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I really doubt that Microsoft (who now owns Obsidian and therefore also the Pillars IP) would allow a Kickstarter campaign for PoE3.

The first hurdle for a PoE3: the devs must be willing to do it. After the release of Deadfire and the low sales numbers the mood was pretty gloomy.
But as I already wrote: several devs now came forth on Twitter and said they would be on board for a PoE3.
Maybe Josh Sawyer still wouldn't be willing to direct it (too bad), but as things like Beast of Winter shows: other devs can step in and still deliver a really nice RPG experience. Imo BoW was excellent and Josh Sawyer wasn't involved that much.

Then Microsoft would need to approve it and fund the development. As I said above they want a big portfolio - all kinds of different games - for the Game Pass program. Not all those games don't have to appeal to millions of players - as long as they don't burn money it's a win I guess. Deadfire could have been a lot cheaper if it didn't have Full VO and some quicksand-features like ship combat. And yet it broke even half a year ago or so (so it wasn't a commercial failure after all). Microsoft bought Obsidian in order to have more RPG expertise. Deadfire wasn't a huge financial success but broke even after all. Even such games can be a benefit for Game Pass. 

So while it still seems unlikely that we will see a PoE3 in the near future - mainly because Obsidian still really doesn't know what went wrong with Deadfire and seems hesitant to retry - it seems less unlikely than a year ago.     

Edited by Boeroer
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I agree with @Boeroer, and so does the head of MS's games division who has said in interviews he needs a range of games for GamePass, not just a range in type of games but also in small versus big games because GamePass needs a constant supply of new games to keep subscribers happy.

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I would be very happy with an episodic form of PoE3. I mean multiple smaller campaigns instead of a big long one. You'd have a rel. small main game with one starter episode and then you can buy whatever additional episodes sounds fun. A bit like the old Hero Quest tabletop game (which was fun!).
They wouldn't need to be played in a particular order (although maybe a certain level treshold would be good I guess). You wouldn't need such a huge team and once the main game's engine is set the teams could focus on story and quest designs and itemization and so on (see Deadfire DLCs). Also smaller teams could work parallel and it wouldn't be too risky to let somebody less experienced take the lead etc. Try something new...

Maybe that's a stupid idea, but atm it sounds rather nice to me until you convince be it's not. :) 

Edited by Boeroer
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On 1/11/2021 at 9:55 AM, Boeroer said:

I really doubt that Microsoft (who now owns Obsidian and therefore also the Pillars IP) would allow a Kickstarter campaign for PoE3.

The first hurdle for a PoE3: the devs must be willing to do it. After the release of Deadfire and the low sales numbers the mood was pretty gloomy.
But as I already wrote: several devs now came forth on Twitter and said they would be on board for a PoE3.
Maybe Josh Sawyer still wouldn't be willing to direct it (too bad), but as things like Beast of Winter shows: other devs can step in and still deliver a really nice RPG experience. Imo BoW was excellent and Josh Sawyer wasn't involved that much.

Then Microsoft would need to approve it and fund the development. As I said above they want a big portfolio - all kinds of different games - for the Game Pass program. Not all those games don't have to appeal to millions of players - as long as they don't burn money it's a win I guess. Deadfire could have been a lot cheaper if it didn't have Full VO and some quicksand-features like ship combat. And yet it broke even half a year ago or so (so it wasn't a commercial failure after all). Microsoft bought Obsidian in order to have more RPG expertise. Deadfire wasn't a huge financial success but broke even after all. Even such games can be a benefit for Game Pass. 

So while it still seems unlikely that we will see a PoE3 in the near future - mainly because Obsidian still really doesn't know what went wrong with Deadfire and seems hesitant to retry - it seems less unlikely than a year ago.     

You're right on the money! We've already seen what Obsidian's capable of doing. Grounded was developed by just fourteen developers, FOURTEEN!!!! And that was a big, open-world survival game. If they're able to do that, then they can sure as hell develop POE 3 with much less effort

Edited by Sanjid099
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I guess so. THey also now know better which features to keep and which to drop (and not sink any money into) I guess. Theay also wouldn't need to enhance the graphics further nor reinvent the "mechanics wheel" like they did with Deadfire. The mechanics are pretty good now and you could just take the existing "engine", tweak it a bit (remove some inconsistencies) and basically do new DLCs (which not be calles that but you know what I mean). Should be a lot cheaper to produce - i guess?

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On 1/11/2021 at 1:42 PM, Boeroer said:

I would be very happy with an episodic form of PoE3. I mean multiple smaller campaigns instead of a big long one. You'd have a rel. small main game with one starter episode and then you can buy whatever additional episodes sounds fun. A bit like the old Hero Quest tabletop game (which was fun!).
They wouldn't need to be played in a particular order (although maybe a certain level treshold would be good I guess). You wouldn't need such a huge team and once the main game's engine is set the teams could focus on story and quest designs and itemization and so on (see Deadfire DLCs). Also smaller teams could work parallel and it wouldn't be too risky to let somebody less experienced take the lead etc. Try something new...

Maybe that's a stupid idea, but atm it sounds rather nice to me until you convince be it's not. :) 

I've been advocating for something like this for years.

Btw, wasn't something like this the original idea behind NwN?

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I just watched Josh's post mortem of Deadfire again and he said something about 3 DLCs vs. 1 big DLC: the overhead work and costs for launching multiple small DLCs was much higher than if you'd release one big DLC. So maybe our idea isn't that great after all (at least for devs).

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There is one issue with a POE3 for Gamepass, I don't think POE1 or POE2 were very popular on console yeah?  I can't imagine trying to navigate POE1 with a controller, would rather be forced to play Tetris or Mario Kart against my younger brother for 24 hours straight.  Doesn't the new XBOX allow for keyboard and mouse I read somewhere? Sorry going off topic, but that could open up a whole new realm for Microsoft in terms of gaming consoles, and types of games but seems like a long shot.

I really like the idea of an episodic gamepass for POE3, an ongoing RPG world with new adventures that isn't and MMORPG ... they could even bring in guest writers.

In regards to POE2 and its sales, its strange how much I didn't enjoy the boat aspect, but did enjoy rolling around in the Kodiak in Wasteland 3 - if you compare the two I would say the boat map of POE2 didn't really bring the world to life.  Otherwise the game was good in so many ways, but it didn't pull all the elements together in the right ways, I think the boat made the world seem too one dimensional.

Otherwise, I think POE could do small changes to bring it up to speed in terms of feeling more modern, while also getting back to the roots of what made RPGs so much fun (not just IE rpgs).  First make the map rotate so you aren't fixed in one view.  Create more environment interaction, like for instance Solasta allows for lighting scones, requires torches, etc, they don't have to go as far as DOS2 or BG3, or try to introduce something groundbreaking, but RPG people love stuff like camping, having to eat food, wounds that can't be healed, anything to make the escape into another world feel more well real.  Maybe just create a good TB-mode along with the RTWP-mode, then everyone is happy!  And last of all, along with the challenging combat, I do still love a good puzzle, POE could do a little more to embed some hidden mysteries in the world.  It is the best combat still in terms of mechanics and strategy, but they can apply that thinking to outside of combat too.  Maybe just get rid of the overworld map completely and have the areas just connect to each other so it seems like a seamless environment.

Edited by bringingyouthefuture

“How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?"

"With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...”

The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy

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  • 2 months later...

I am hoping we see another Pillars of Eternity. I much prefer the first one over the second - mostly because the way the second one opens - it's pretty "urgent" to take care of the "walking statue" - so it seems odd when you sail around and pick up trivial quests like, "Can you drop off this letter at that island over there because I don't have the time?"
"Oh sure. I mean it's not like there's this world ending 500 foot statue just walking around. Let me go ahead and be your mail-person." :)

 

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