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Wormerine

No romance!

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My only wish the group making OW would be honest and do not come up with coward excuses about "content dilution", which is as much corporate bull**** as infamous EA with their "sense of accomplishments". Why not honestly say "romances are trouble not worth the resources spent on them"?

 

There is a game company - Spiders, which makes games... not to everyone's liking, let's put it like that. Some people (well, a lot) will call them "bad", for me - it's sort of acquainted taste and I do like the company for it's honesty. When they were asked why there is no female protagonist in their last game (The Technomancer), they said openly and directly: it cost twice as much to make VO for the game with two protagonists and we could not afford the second voice set. What's stopping Obsidian from admission "romances are too troublesome"?

 

Because, let's face it, they are.

Disclaimer: I love romances in the games. If the game has a romance in it, it means I will most likely at least try that game (if I can physically play it, OW as a FPS is not playable to me). Yet, with all my love to the feature, I am not blind to the problems its implementation brings to the development. Romance means emotions, hence, a lot of passionate public opinions. Romance means taste, hence - you can not possible give everyone what they want. There will be tons of accusations, starting from obvious mandatory copy/paste "all fem options are ugly feminists / males are the most boring kind of humans / gay romances are scarce and after-thought" and ending with detailed unfavorable analysis of every moment of each romance. Writing style of a romance will be the most criticized part of the plot. Romanced characters immediately become very limited in development both background-wise and story-wise: you make the companion "playersexual" - it looses the background (no previous relationship can be mentioned, no tastes can be expressed), you specify sexuality - you will never hear the end of it (why this and not that?!). If character is set for betrayal - for a romanced betrayer you will get all sort very expressionate "why-s" and "how-s" (rightfully so, btw :) ). Same with death, leaving, or any independent move, so, you better avoid it. And unlike game-mechanics you can not later balance or fix it, what's done is done.

So, with romances you will get some ecstatic grateful group of enthusiasts, but voices of those left unsatisfied can very well be be louder. Including romances is all risk with questionable profit (moral or material). Is there someone who does not understand it? Then why not say it?

 

I would still argue that these days people want more from their stories and romances are as good of a promotion feature as high level graphics, but it is still a risk. Honest admission of that simple facts would look better than a corporate political correctness talk.

the developer made bound by flame?

that game has a great ending scene when the ash dragon fly over

can't get into technomancer though

tried mace and failed

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Wrong. Half of the answers are there to say that we do not care about "Romance" and trust Obsidian to make a good game (and no need to flirt a pile of pixels to feel better before turning off your PC).

I trust Obsidian to make a good game with or without romances. They make good games, period. And the idea that flirting with an NPC as part of a romance portion of a game has anything to do with "feeling better" is about as accurate as the idea that combat, exploration, inventory management, or quest completion have anything to do with "feeling better".

 

Yes, you're right... but i am surprised to see that the main concern of the members of this forum since the announcement of the game is ... "romances" (this is the subject that I always see go back and with the most views). Still, is this the fundamental point of the title? I do not think so. I find this request / expectation exessive and ultimately useless. That's all.

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Wrong. Half of the answers are there to say that we do not care about "Romance" and trust Obsidian to make a good game (and no need to flirt a pile of pixels to feel better before turning off your PC).

I trust Obsidian to make a good game with or without romances. They make good games, period. And the idea that flirting with an NPC as part of a romance portion of a game has anything to do with "feeling better" is about as accurate as the idea that combat, exploration, inventory management, or quest completion have anything to do with "feeling better".

 

Yes, you're right... but i am surprised to see that the main concern of the members of this forum since the announcement of the game is ... "romances" (this is the subject that I always see go back and with the most views). Still, is this the fundamental point of the title? I do not think so. I find this request / expectation exessive and ultimately useless. That's all.

 

 

Can it be because the rest is expected and obvious? It's an RPG - people expect the story and expect it to be good by definition, it's a shooter, so there are certain mechanics that expected and quality of them is expected as well. There are a lot of games now-days, you need to add something extra to stand out from the crowd. Romances is a feature common enough to be recognized and wanted yet, not so ubiquitous to be absolutely expected.

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AC Oydessey did a surprisingly excellent job with PC romances. It's too bad it's not going to be included in the game. Perhaps Obsidian will leave enough coding wiggle room so modders can make that a reality using UnReal 4 engine.

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I would like the possbility of a romance or a choice of it, IMHO this adds to the roleplaying aspect.  But romances or not romances, I'm quite sure we will see an excellent game here and there may be modders around who might be able to add one, let's wait and see 8)

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No romance, please and thanks.


“Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?”

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Deadfire didn't exactly make the idea of romances in an obsidian game more appealing. New Vegas and Kotor 2 did have some of that kind of content though even though it wasn't really romances and I didn't have an issue with it in either game. Other than the mechanics of the gay perk I found to be more like a lgbt character toggle but I doubt that was the intent.

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Romance in video games has been pretty cringe worthy imo, glad they decided not to include it.

 

This thread has been pretty cringe-worthy, imo.

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I'm new here, just because I've been avoiding Obsidian games because they didn't have romances.  I recently discovered that PoE2 had them, so I've been playing through both PoE and PoE2 and enjoying them very much.  Romances are very much a part of a great RPG.

 

Note to Obsidian:

There's no way Outer Worlds will be as successful as the Mass Effect games unless you put in romances.  Sorry about your luck.

 

Note to people demanding no romances:

Flame away, you're in the minority.  Keep crying like babies about something you have the power to avoid when you play.

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I'm new here, just because I've been avoiding Obsidian games because they didn't have romances.  I recently discovered that PoE2 had them, so I've been playing through both PoE and PoE2 and enjoying them very much.  Romances are very much a part of a great RPG.

 

Note to Obsidian:

There's no way Outer Worlds will be as successful as the Mass Effect games unless you put in romances.  Sorry about your luck.

 

Note to people demanding no romances:

Flame away, you're in the minority.  Keep crying like babies about something you have the power to avoid when you play.

yes

bioware games almost have the best romance among rpgs

and mass effect wouldn't be success as much without them

mostly because how much bioware invest in this part of the game

obsidian clearly unwilling and unable to put that much time and effort into romance

deadfire and tyranny are obvious enough

atleast in deadfire player will always have modwyr

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I'm new here, just because I've been avoiding Obsidian games because they didn't have romances.  I recently discovered that PoE2 had them, so I've been playing through both PoE and PoE2 and enjoying them very much.  Romances are very much a part of a great RPG.

 

Note to Obsidian:

There's no way Outer Worlds will be as successful as the Mass Effect games unless you put in romances.  Sorry about your luck.

 

Note to people demanding no romances:

Flame away, you're in the minority.  Keep crying like babies about something you have the power to avoid when you play.

 

LOL sure, romance is what made Mass Effect games more successful, not the AAA budget.

 

I'm not sure about being in the minority, (was there a poll? I missed it.) but I don't think people who dislike romances are going to be crying, because this game has been confirmed by the developers on multiple occasions to have no romances.

 

Also, interesting that you say you've been avoiding Obsidian games because of the lack of romances, but that you've now been enjoying POE1 very much, a game which has no romances. Could it be that the romances aren't really that integral to your enjoyment of the games?

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I'm new here, just because I've been avoiding Obsidian games because they didn't have romances.  I recently discovered that PoE2 had them, so I've been playing through both PoE and PoE2 and enjoying them very much.  Romances are very much a part of a great RPG.

 

Note to Obsidian:

There's no way Outer Worlds will be as successful as the Mass Effect games unless you put in romances.  Sorry about your luck.

 

Note to people demanding no romances:

Flame away, you're in the minority.  Keep crying like babies about something you have the power to avoid when you play.

According to your logic Deadfire must have sold a lot more than Pillars of Eternity - since it has romances while PoE has not.

 

Funnily though... it has not.

 

 

<For me,> romances are very much a part of a great RPG.

I fixed it. Please: only speak for yourself.

 

 

My theory is (and feel free to burn my avatar on a virtual stake) that most gamers who desperately want romances in games just don't get enough romances in real life. 

 

There - I said it.  :devil:


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I'm a little curious about how romances can make such a difference, when the ratio of romance content/non-romance content in those large, sprawling, time-consuming RPGs is rather minuscule. I mean, I like them and use them if found in a game I play, but I also love making builds, exploring, talking to monsters, murdering dudes and stealing their stuff so the whole package is appealing to me, but I'm sure as heck would not plow through hours of, say, racing game or twitch platformer for a few miserable minutes of stuff I do love. 

 

(Also, Boeroer, your theory kind of implies I do not have enough murder and kleptomania in my life and I resent that remark.  :getlost: )

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Posted (edited)

But - that only substitutes my theory. If you would murder a fellow human being every week or so - would you have a lot of interest in experiencing the same in a game? Don't think so.

Would it be likely that your preferable games are racing games if you are a racing or test driver in real life? Maybe not. It's just a theory without any scientific data so far.

 

ALso - what do you mean? You resent the remark that you do not have murder and kleptomania in your life (enough or... at all)? I really thought that's a good thing that you don't. WHy would you resent that (I mean unless you are a kleptomaniac serial killer - if so then sorry ;))?

 

Also note that I said "desperately want". I guess you also like games when there's no murder and stealing - if they have other interesting mechanics. Just guessing though...

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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But - that only substitutes my theory. 

 

Not really! :p I indeed have no murders in my life, but I am perfectly happy with "murder count = 0" situation and absolutely do not want this ever go >0 even if I enjoy a little slaughter in my vidya games. Same with romances, I guess. Just because one wants to experience them in controlled environment, it does not mean they either lack or want more of them in their reality. Them romances-schmances are just another fringe of your bog-standard power fantasy package, just as dude killing is and neither of them resembles their reality counterpart much. As intended. 

 

(However, I absolutely do not have enough exploration in my RL, true.  :( Wouldn't say no to some kleptomania either if not for that pesky law enforcement disadvantage)

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LOL  cry more and continue with the personal attacks, please

 

I'm only playing PoE1 so that I have a game to import with the most flags for consequences.

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Posted (edited)

LOL  cry more and continue with the personal attacks, please

 

I'm only playing PoE1 so that I have a game to import with the most flags for consequences.

 

I've had a look and I don't think anyone here is posting in a way that could possibly be construed as crying. Do you think you could point to some specific examples?

 

Also, it might've been worth your while to research what the depth of the romances was in PoE2 before committing to 2 fairly lengthy RPGs purely on the basis of the romances within.

 

EDIT: Also, you said earlier that you'd been avoiding Obsidian games because they have no romances. The following games by Obsidian Entertainment have romances:

 

KotOR 2

NWN 2

Alpha Protocol

Fallout: New Vegas (kinda)

Edited by Chairchucker

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Posted (edited)

I've been playing through both PoE and PoE2 and enjoying them very much.

 

I'm only playing PoE1 so that I have a game to import with the most flags for consequences.

 

So... err... what's correct now?

 

 

cry more and continue with the personal attacks

To demand more crying and to continue with personal attacks implies that there have been

a) cries

and

b) at least one personal attack

 

Could you provide us with a quote of a personal attack and a quoted passage where somebody was crying - after your penultimate post?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Why on earth would a lack of romance OPTIONS be considered a good thing?

 

It's literally less role playing in your role playing game?

 

The key word is of course optional. Have romanceable characters but not a requirement. If players decide that they don't like any of the options, they're free to friend zone them all. This is making a pretty important role playing decision for everyone.

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Why on earth would a lack of romance OPTIONS be considered a good thing?

 

Its a good thing when

  • The creators aren't interested in implementing it
  • The narrative doesn't support it in a way that isn't contrived
  • The development of romance options would take resources away from creating other interesting role playing opportunities
  • The development wouldn't support the creation of romances within the scope of the project in general

 

I'm sure there are more reasons we could come up with.  Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for a well implemented and thought out romance or romances in a RPG, but that doesn't mean it has to be present in the game anymore than, say, swords or relationships with your parents.

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Have you played Pillars? Good God the romances are half assed and downright insulting haha. Obs is playing to their strengths.

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Posted (edited)

 

Why on earth would a lack of romance OPTIONS be considered a good thing?

 

Its a good thing when

  • The creators aren't interested in implementing it
  • The narrative doesn't support it in a way that isn't contrived
  • The development of romance options would take resources away from creating other interesting role playing opportunities
  • The development wouldn't support the creation of romances within the scope of the project in general

 

I'm sure there are more reasons we could come up with.  Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for a well implemented and thought out romance or romances in a RPG, but that doesn't mean it has to be present in the game anymore than, say, swords or relationships with your parents.

 

 

I understand your points, and perhaps my opening post was a bit sharper than it should have been, but here's my take if you don't mind a bit of a rebuttal.

 

Romance is one of the biggest and most important aspects of the human condition. Some might call the search for love and acceptance THE single most important factor in that human condition. 

 

So completely divorcing this aspect of playing a role from a role playing game is essentially removing one of the biggest aspects of playing a character. Love, and the search for it, is one of the biggest motivators out there. Romance done well can add far more to a story than romance done poorly can detract from a story. (IMO of course.)

 

Some of the best video games of all time have featured love as a central component, and I have a hard time listing a bunch of all-time great RPGs that completely ignored this aspect.  A short list of my favorite RPGs of all time:

 

Planescape: Torment - Has romances

Witcher 3 - Has romances

Jade Empire - Has romances

Mass Effect Trilogy - Has romances

Dragon Age: Origins - Has romances

Kotor - Has romances

Kotor 2 - Has romances

Neverwinter Nights 2 - Has romances

Dragon Quest VIII - Has romances...really, really bad ones but they are there.

Star Control 2 - Has romance

Final Fantasy IV - Has romance

Final Fantasy VI - Has romance

Final Fantasy IX - Has romance

Persona 3 - Has romances

Persona 4 - Has romances

Fallout 1+2 - No real romances to speak of tbh.

The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind - No real romances to speak of.

Chrono Trigger - Has romance, but very little.

 

I do get that romance in video games can be a challenge. I get that they can be poorly written. I get that they can be expensive and time consuming to implement.

 

But the list of all-time great RPGs that ignores this side of the human condition is pretty damn short

 

This is obviously excluding games that fall more into the "action RPG" trope than actual RPGs. I like From Software's games but there's precious little roleplaying even if they are labeled as "Action RPGs" because it has stats and leveling up and stuff. I consider most of them to be all-time great games, but I don't consider them to be RPGs. 

Edited by nocoolnamejim
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