Theorycrafting Thoughts On New Classes (Patch 4.0 Beta)

[gkathellar]

... it occurs to me that Tactician has party anti-synergy with Streetfighter. It'd be one thing if the two subclasses didn't function properly on the same character, but as it is they don't function properly on the same team. That seems wrong. Party members need not work well together, but I feel like their abilities shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Edited December 16, 2018 by gkathellar

[TheWeaver]

... it occurs to me that Tactician has party anti-synergy with Streetfighter. It'd be one thing if the two subclasses didn't function properly on the same character, but as it is they don't function properly on the same team. That seems wrong. Party members need not work well together, but I feel like their abilities shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

 

Personally I'm OK with this.  Not like the anti-synergy isn't fairly obvious (so it doesn't constitute a trap in that sense).  Placing that design constraint would, IMO, be too onerous.  And streefighter does have another way to get their condition, so being flanked isn't the only approach (but I agree that they don't work great together).

 

As for Tactician, I'm playing a Tactician/Psion and haven't really had much trouble getting Brilliant up.  The few times I wasn't able to were due to fog of war/engagement issues (for example, at the dig site when you pull the panthers/boars/drake, the wyrms will hang back, but are still engaged).  Overall I'm finding it easier to get Brilliant than I am using the interrupt to get discipline back (wish there were an indication of that in the log, but there doesn't seem to be).  Been a fun combo so far.

[Ophiuchus]

I played through Port Maje on PoTD as a Furyshaper/Lifegiver (not a bad nu metal album title) and think it could have some potential as a support character. I chose nature godlike for extra PL and synergy with Frenzy and used heal and damage over time spells to take advantage of Frenzy's might bonus. Since I'm playing this as a caster, I plan on investing in Arcana for more versatility and to give the character something to do while those DoTs and HoTs tick away.

For RP/design's sake, it's like your usual shaman archetype but without nature summons (which are excluded from Lifegiver anyways).

[Boeroer]

I didn't check:

 

Do a SC Furyshaper's Blood Ward and a Chanter's Old Sic stack? So that you and fellow party members get 30% of dealt damage as health and not only 15%?

[Dr <3]

Old siec + woedican paladin heals kind of stack ( they worked as 2 separate sources of healing --> you do 10 dmg--> you get 2 different named istances with respectively +1,2 (12%) and +1,5 (15%) healing {numbers can change slightly due rounding} ), so i'm positive that the blood ward work the same.

 

Only bad thing is that as far as i tested ( a lot, but not every possibility) "leeched healing" (es:blood ward, old siec chant, woedica paladin passive, concelhsut staff) is boostable ONLY DOING MORE DMG, all effect that gives you "more healing" (es: bone setter torch, healer belt, talent "practiced healer", ecc) DOESN'T boost it.

 

The bright side are that:

- lashes count as "more dmg done", thus increasing your leeched healing

- axe modal bleeding cut count as "dmg done", so as long that the dot goes on, so will your leeched healing.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Dr <3

[Boeroer]

Like in PoE. Only that DoTs didn't work afair. That's actually a great point with the battle axes. Single Class Barb with Battle Axes and Blood Thirst + Barbaric Retaliation is a great setup already. If all those stacked DoTs also leech... whoohee!

[MaxQuest]

Btw has someone tried/tested reducing self-damage from Blood Sacrifice?

 

The lower might you have the less damage you take.

Plus there is the already mentioned Voidward ring.

 

And also the following:

- Honey Wine Hen: -15% damage taken; or Forgetful Night: -20% damage taken

- Mouth Char: -5% damage taken

- Standing near someone in Furrante's Breastplate (Vigorous Protector): -10% damage taken

- Pallegina's Breastplate: -5% damage taken (improves as wearer loses Health)

- Copperhead's Helm: -20% spell damage taken, (although there is also -8 acc with spells)

- Death's Maw Helm: Being near a killed enemy grants temporary Damage Reduction.

- Protective Eothasian Charm (per-rest): -x% damage taken (don't remember the value after the nerf)

- Defensive Stance: -5% damage taken per engaged enemy

- Cadhu Scalth shield (Luminous Harmony): -5% Damage taken from all sources (improves with Metaphysics)

Edited December 18, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Pure CC Bloodmage with dumped MIG seems like a solid option. Also helps with Alacrity. Those spells also aren't too great with Empower anyway.

 

Are there items that reduce MIG? Don't remember any...

[Dr <3]

@ maxquest: you forgot the allmighy "claim and refusal" : -15% dmg recived for melee attacks, -10% dmg done with melee attacks.

Nice list btw. I tried to build a super low deflection barb with super high healt and stack dmg reduction items to make the ultimate retaliation tank ( single class for barbaric retaliation, so no warrior stance). I failed. Miserably. Mostly because there are not enough item to stack max dmg resistance.

 

Another version actually was about stacking just AR, but as the point was getting crit all the time tgat too didn't worked too well ( was ok, but not OP)

[MaxQuest]

"Claim and refusal" provides damage reduction vs melee attacks only. Afaik it won't help vs self damage from Blood Sacrifice)

 

Btw, I've also tried a damage-reduction tank few months ago. And yeah, it was a fail

The problem was that enemies had quite a lot of damage bonuses: high might, weapon quality (fine/exceptional/superb/...), crits, and ability bonuses. Enemy rogues were especially unpleasant.

Edited December 17, 2018 by MaxQuest

[AndreaColombo]

So here's a theorycrafting piece I'll be checking out on a henchmen late into my current playthrough.

 

Steel Garrote/Berserker

 

Leaving aside the Garrote ability, which is nice but has a hefty cost, what I'm most interested in (beyond the cool factor of the class, which is off the charts) is the 15% damage done as healing. It triggers when attacking afflicted targets, and Spirit Frenzy makes it so your hits Stagger enemies—voilà, your every attack afflicts your target and gets you healing. Unless, of course, your enemies were resistant or immune to Might Afflictions.

 

Enter two handy items: Will Breaker and the flesh ring from The Forgotten Sanctum. The first one has a chance to Shaken (and a passive Action Speed bonus to go with the one from Frenzy); the second, a 10% chance to apply a random affliction. This way you have an affliction-generating melee machine that regenerates health attacking its targets.

 

Wear blackened plate for bonus style points along with Will Breaker. Violet Redemption too if you're really stepping up your fashion game, since Will Breaker is black and purple (but you get the cloak when it no longer matters unless you export a character that has it and hire it in a new game to get the item.)

Edited December 17, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[brasilgringo]

So here's a theorycrafting piece I'll be checking out on a henchmen late into my current playthrough.

 

Steel Garrote/Berserker

 

Leaving aside the Garrote ability, which is nice but has a hefty cost, what I'm most interested in (beyond the cool factor of the class, which is off the charts) is the 15% damage done as healing. It triggers when attacking afflicted targets, and Spirit Frenzy makes it so your hits Stagger enemies—voilà, your every attack afflicts your target and gets you healing. Unless, of course, your enemies were resistant or immune to Might Afflictions.

 

Enter two handy items: Will Breaker and the flesh ring from The Forgotten Sanctum. The first one has a chance to Shaken (and a passive Action Speed bonus to go with the one from Frenzy); the second, a 10% chance to apply a random affliction. This way you have an affliction-generating melee machine that regenerates health attacking its targets.

 

Wear blackened plate for bonus style points along with Will Breaker. Violet Redemption too if you're really stepping up your fashion game, since Will Breaker is black and purple (but you get the cloak when it no longer matters unless you export a character that has it and hire it in a new game to get the item.)

 

On PoTD I was finding the heal very tiny.  Even in AOE using spirit lance.  Definitely not enough to keep you topped up if surrounded by things beating on you.  Curious what you find.   Made me question why even to roll Steel Garrote, vs one of the other Pally sub-classes.

Edited December 17, 2018 by brasilgringo

[Clerith]

unless you export a character that has it and hire it in a new game to get the item

??? What? Since when has this been in the game? Can you mule dlc items and get them early in another game save cheating like this?

[Gregorovich]

Not sure, when that appeared, but yes, you can have even several identical items, if import characters equipped with them. The game just says you, that it may influence the balance

Edited December 17, 2018 by Gregorovich

[brasilgringo]

 

unless you export a character that has it and hire it in a new game to get the item

??? What? Since when has this been in the game? Can you mule dlc items and get them early in another game save cheating like this?

 

not like it really matters given you can use console commands to the same end, except that doing it via imports probably doesn't disable achievements -- but since this is solo player, no harm done I suppose

[Madscientist]

The steel garrote paladin says: 15% of damage as healing when attacking afflicted enemies.

I was always asking myself afflicted by what? And what does "attacking" mean?

 

- Does it mean that the enemy has any affliction of any attribute, so its similar to the rogue requirement for sneak attacks?

- Does attacking mean weapon attack or is it any damage, for example a wizard/paladin throws a fireball at enemies who have an affliction?

 

It may not be enough to keep you alive alone, but when you use it on a char who has several regeneration effects already it could be useful.

Maybe something like a paladin/chanter tank with the regeneration aura, regeneration chants and regeneration equipment. This one should have a high defense, call summons and/or debuff enemies and is hard to kill.

[Ophiuchus]

The steel garrote paladin says: 15% of damage as healing when attacking afflicted enemies.

I was always asking myself afflicted by what? And what does "attacking" mean?

 

- Does it mean that the enemy has any affliction of any attribute, so its similar to the rogue requirement for sneak attacks?

- Does attacking mean weapon attack or is it any damage, for example a wizard/paladin throws a fireball at enemies who have an affliction?

 

It may not be enough to keep you alive alone, but when you use it on a char who has several regeneration effects already it could be useful.

Maybe something like a paladin/chanter tank with the regeneration aura, regeneration chants and regeneration equipment. This one should have a high defense, call summons and/or debuff enemies and is hard to kill.

Yep. The heal effect works just like Sneak Attack and couples well with Rogue. It only works with melee attacks.

[brasilgringo]

 

The steel garrote paladin says: 15% of damage as healing when attacking afflicted enemies.

I was always asking myself afflicted by what? And what does "attacking" mean?

 

- Does it mean that the enemy has any affliction of any attribute, so its similar to the rogue requirement for sneak attacks?

- Does attacking mean weapon attack or is it any damage, for example a wizard/paladin throws a fireball at enemies who have an affliction?

 

It may not be enough to keep you alive alone, but when you use it on a char who has several regeneration effects already it could be useful.

Maybe something like a paladin/chanter tank with the regeneration aura, regeneration chants and regeneration equipment. This one should have a high defense, call summons and/or debuff enemies and is hard to kill.

Yep. The heal effect works just like Sneak Attack and couples well with Rogue. It only works with melee attacks.

 

I used it on a sage and on a pally/wiz mc, both of whom were giving afflicted in AOE with either debuffs (like noxious burst) and/or using the Draconic Fury spell (which fears enemies and counts). On POTD scaling, I was only seeing heals in the 9-15 range per hit - which even in AOE wasn't enough to keep me alive in larger fights where I got surrounded by enemies.  In fact in some larger fights the healing was less, perhaps due to lower damage.  I wasn't impressed enough to want to roll a SG pally over a different subclass.  Maybe on a rogue that can deliver higher damage attacks it would be OK, but I still thought it quite poor vs Pally heal aura, or even Blood Mage self regen ticks.

[MrCinos]

So what multiclass alongsides Bloodmage would you recommend for the easiest time on the highest difficulty? Preferably low MIG-support variation.

[Gregorovich]

So what multiclass alongsides Bloodmage would you recommend for the easiest time on the highest difficulty? Preferably low MIG-support variation.

Support and low-might?

Well, the first guy I think of is Chanter-Troubadour, summoner. And might be the best here.

 

Cipher-Psion, I have not tested, a lot of people say he is suboptimal, but on paper he suits that, except the fact of Blood Sacrifice ia a damage that stops focus-gain.

 

Barb-Furyshaper due to wards.

 

Paladin: aura+healing+high defences, although not so good without might.

 

Druid and Priest, but your healing will be disappointing.

[TheWeaver]

 

So what multiclass alongsides Bloodmage would you recommend for the easiest time on the highest difficulty? Preferably low MIG-support variation.

 

Cipher-Psion, I have not tested, a lot of people say he is suboptimal, but on paper he suits that, except the fact of Blood Sacrifice ia a damage that stops focus-gain.

 

Just did a quick test and Blood Sacrifice does not suppress Soul Mind.  That's consistent with my previous tests with other forms of non-hit roll self damage (destructive channeling, DAoM).  Haven't tested Beserker self-damage (but I would assume it too does not).

 

I agree that Chant/Troub and Furyshaper seem like good options as well.

 

And wow -- that was my first BM test -- at high levels Blood Sacrifice will kill you dead if you aren't careful.

[Boeroer]

Berserker self damage does not stop Dance of Death, so I presume it doesn't stop Psion's Focus gain either.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Boeroer

[DigitalCrack]

Started a new game as a Trickster/Forbidden Fist. I am not about to put up any numbers or stats lol, but from a pure game feel perspective, Its fun! Went for a tankier approach and am rocking a sword and board setup. Plays very well havent had any resource issues with the Forbidden half, for all the negative hype surrounding that sub I cant say I have had any issue getting plenty of wounds. The new fist move could use a slight buff imo in some aspect buts its not terrible as is either.

 

edit: Someone suggested it earlier but some universal monk buff across all monk abilities like a +1 monk PL for each level of curse (for example) or the damage buff applying to all monk abilities would be the perfect kind change.

 

edit: Or wound cost reduction across monk abilities while cursed.

Edited December 19, 2018 by DigitalCrack

[Frog Man]

 

 

So what multiclass alongsides Bloodmage would you recommend for the easiest time on the highest difficulty? Preferably low MIG-support variation.

Cipher-Psion, I have not tested, a lot of people say he is suboptimal, but on paper he suits that, except the fact of Blood Sacrifice ia a damage that stops focus-gain.

Just did a quick test and Blood Sacrifice does not suppress Soul Mind. That's consistent with my previous tests with other forms of non-hit roll self damage (destructive channeling, DAoM). Haven't tested Beserker self-damage (but I would assume it too does not).

 

I agree that Chant/Troub and Furyshaper seem like good options as well.

 

And wow -- that was my first BM test -- at high levels Blood Sacrifice will kill you dead if you aren't careful.

Yeah I’ve been thinking of running a low might high per high int troubadour furyshaper. Focus on shouts, wards, and debuffs. Shield cracks and killer froze invocations.

[OverFlow7]

Hello.
 

Now that all the dlc are out i'am gonna start a second playthrough  of poe2 , i will import my first character from poe which was a wizard death godlike. 
Do you think there could be some good synergy with a blood mage / death godlike? Something like using a bunch of buffing spells , then using blood sacrifice to put yourself in Near death state ( to trigger the + 3 Power Level ) then unleashing hell on your ennemies?

Sounds very gimmicky and probably not worth the risk but...