The Political Thread - Burlamaqui edition

[HoonDing]

 

you had some very fine ppl among the neo nazis

[Chilloutman]

so we finally make it in oppresion olympics, yay!

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/09/universities-launch-drive-recruit-white-males-low-numbers-give/

[HoonDing]

white genocide

[Malcador]

white genocide

Too many console gamers

[Zoraptor]

 

 

The vid and pics are from Brussels only just this morning, all of them protesting the UN immigration act their leadership signed. They were beaten up and arrested en masse as quickly as they could be. As for France, I doubt most gilets jaunes want anything to do with Trump, because they've doxxed and threatened several wannabe leaders already. This is an acephalous, general uprising; you can't assume the people on camera represent everyone's opinion. The only thing that can divide them are leaders, which if the rule of revolts holds true, they'll probably be co-opted like the alt-right were, but I hope Euros are more cautious and smart, rather than charging straight into the honeypot with tiki torches lit.

Uprisings don’t generally stay leaderless for long. Yes, spontaneous flashpoint uprisings without leaders do happen, but any sustained uprising is going to look for a leader or leaders at some point.

And at that point, it's game over man game over.

 

Once there's a head to speak for the movement, it's a head you can bribe, blackmail, or otherwise pressure into getting in bed with those he protested against yesterday. Remember Tsipras? I member. I also member our own grassroots movement that was quickly hijacked by a bunch of sorry ****s fresh off the ivory tower (cf. vanguard party), and repurposed into another vector for the culture war cancer, while its newly minted leaders laughed all the way to the bank.

 

 

The ancillary to that is to get a movement with diverse viewpoints to appoint (or have someone self appoint) a leader who much of the movement cannot stand. I'd say the best example was Occupy Wall Street, where the media was desperate to appoint the kookiest person they could find as leader, and the wackier the person the more likely they were to give interviews- well, it was probably the media doing multiple interviews then choosing the worst one to broadcast. Label your opponents as Dirty Commies or Nasty Nazis then you don't need to bother addressing them any other way.

 

I have a bit of sympathy for Tsipras though, Germany would have wreaked bloody havoc on Greece if he'd left the Euro as he should have and the hatred would have been permanent and irremediable; the vindictiveness would know no bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if there were literal charges brought against him whether he was leader of Greece or not. The UK is only getting a softer response because the EU thinks they can wangle a 2nd referendum by being 'reasonable'.

[BruceVC]

macaroni is a failure. Much like that Brtish Nazi whose own party barely tolerates her. They should marry. Afterall, she is the right age for him. <> Their own country hates them yet they pretend to be leaders of the world. LMAO

volo I meant to ask you this after our chat about how much France has done for Canada

 

But I dont understand what is your issues with France especially since you are a  descendant I assume of the original French who came to Canada. Please go into as much detail as possible if you have several reasons just so I am clear on what you mean 

 

Guys I absolutely support Trump in his endeavors to pardon this Green Beret, you cannot incarcerate someone who was doing his job but in an unorthodox way. People who serve there country through any form of military service  cannot be treated this way which is very critical and unfair 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mathew-golsteyn-case-president-trump-vows-to-review-case-against-army-hero-charged-with-murder/

[Malcador]

I am sure Calley and his scumbags were just doing their job in an unorthodox way, too

[Gromnir]

what american ceos fear most.

 

willful indifference o' many trump supporters is becoming... coenesqe.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[HoonDing]

don't care about his many faults at least hes gettin stuff done

 

...

 

rite?

[Guard Dog]

I have completely lost interest in politics. Political interest and discussion, caring about outcomes of elections etc. is all a product of concern for the future. Once you arrive at the conclusion there isn't one a feeling comes over you like being wrapped in a soft warm blanket. No matter who wins, everyone in the running is an idiot. If Hillary Clinton was a slightly less repulsive human being and actually won in 2016 this would still be a s--t show. Just because the s--t is a slightly different odor and consistency does not mean it a'int still s--t! And here is a prediction for the future: the person elected to the Presidency in 2020 will also (probably) be an idiot. And their idiocy will be enabled (both in support and opposition) by 535 Congress Critters 90% of whom are also idiots. 

 

As of this moment the US is $21,879, 391,901, 681 in debt with a current federal spending deficit of $843,939,670,154. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

Arguing over who will spend us into oblivion is like two tribes of fleas fighting over ownership of a dog trapped in a burning house. They are all f----d and just don't know it. 

 

 

Edit: Sorry about the inappropriate image copy. I didn't read that as close as I should have. Thought it was funny and just copied the link,.  

Edited December 18, 2018 by Guard Dog
Don't circumvent the language filter

[SonicMage117]

[HoonDing]

"As of this moment the US is $21,879, 391,901, 681 in debt with a current federal spending deficit of $843,939,670,154. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

"

 

you can always just print the money

[Gfted1]

Who cares?

[Gromnir]

ok, so in case it weren't clear, we "hate illinois nazis," as much as the next guy. 

 

warning: adult language

 

 

 

 

am a minority and catholic, so am s'posing illinois nazis hate Gromnir.  fair.

 

the thing is, we cannot help but be disturbed on multiple levels by the following story.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/uk/parents-jailed-scli-gbr-intl/index.html

 

is a serious fubar family.  these folks is not getting an invite to our christmas party.  

 

...

 

the thing is, am almost certain if this story had been 2008 instead o' 2018, most US americans would be disturbed both by the nazi family and by knowledge that western democratic governments would criminalize citizens for their political/social views and group affiliations.  in 2018?  am... unsure.  am pretty certain it ain't a matter o' people disliking nazis more today than in 2008  or 1998. even so, we have noticed here in the States a shift away from seeming foundational notions o' liberty.  core values and whatnot.

 

all the legal stuff aside, am fundamental bothered by growing acceptance o' what were recent deemed repugnant-- that is just for a person to be criminalized for their beliefs and thoughts 'cause the majority (democracy) says it's ok to do so.  sure, who supports nazis except other nazis and other contemptible groups?  who cares 'bout nazis, illinois or otherwise?  why does Gromnir care 'bout nazis?the thing is, when the naacp first got started, it were considered a radical group by the majority, and many considered 'em terrorists.  was stoopid and wrong to label naacp as such, but is what majority believed.  am not comparing naacp to nazis.  am comparing stoopid people in 1910-20s to stoopid people in 2010-20s.  is not as if the human animal has marked evolved in 100 years.  maybe society has evolved?  dunno, but is nothing to say society cannot rot and fester as quick and easy as it progresses.  gonna depend on human enlightenment to prevent next naacp from being harassed and criminalized by government through democratic process?

 

again, am purposeful avoiding legal stuff, 'cause am not thinking law matters in present context.  is belief which gots us concerned.  am knowing there is folks, american, european and elsewheres out there who thinks the brits did right by criminalizing the nazis in the linked cnn story.  is why am concerned.  if any such folks gots a good explanation as to why we shouldn't be concerned, we would like to hear it.  am not joking.  would honest like alternative viewpoint.

 

make it easier, am not actual gonna respond to this issue further, so no worries 'bout needing deal with us getting sooper critical or comical feisty.  safe zone?  

 

also, am knowing nazis is pretty much a vol thing (so apologize for stealing his shtick) and is also kinda a cheap lightning rod issue, but it is a real world example and not hypothetical and the extremes is where fundamental social/cultural/political issues first become relevant.

 

thanks in advance.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 19, 2018 by Gromnir

[SonicMage117]

"You can't always get what you want."

 

 

MAGA is better than what you want ao that's a good thing.

[Cpl Halsbart]

 

[Volourn]

Free market and democratic 'values' in China? WTF?

[Gfted1]

sqQquuuuuueeEEEEEeaaaAaAAalllllllllllll

[Cpl Halsbart]

Free market and democratic 'values' in China? WTF?

The kvetching over nothing this morning was absolutely epic. Its like somebody tossed a bunch nickels on the floor in a synagogue.

 

 

Oy vey golem, you're giving their desert soil back to them instead of to your greatest ally, desert tribe #729!

Edited December 19, 2018 by Cpl Halsbart

[Zoraptor]

Trump's decision has nothing to do with Israel- it's against their interests, for once, though not massively so- or Russia or Iran or Saudi, it's very close to 100% about Turkey being about to invade Syria again and attack the US's allies. Yeah, US politicians and especially pundits are morons, so are any country's when they put who has the biggest cheque book above reason. It's not like the US holdings in Syria cut them off from Iran or anything, that battle was lost when they didn't get to Abukamal first; or even further back when Richard Pearse invented powered flight.

 

End of the day when it came right down to it the US was never going to put the Kurds' interests ahead of pleasing Turkey unless they were convinced that Turkey was geopolitically Gone, Permanently- which, semi ironically, backing the Kurds would have resulted in.  So the choice was to stay with the guys they fought alongside against ISIS to protect them against the guys who sold ISIS's oil for them, sold ISIS weapons and allowed their border to be used to get ISIS's foreign fighters in, had their diplomatic goons attack US citizens and have been carrying out a brutal, lawless pogrom on Kurds in Afrin, etc etc; or bug out ignominiously. Unsurprisingly, they chose option B, even with the classic declaration of victory. Given the stuff coming out over the last couple of days this is not a massive surprise, clearly it's a classic Trump deal where Turkey buys Patriots (and likely other useless gimmick tech, they're still buying S400) in return for US withdrawal and a free hand.

 

Only real question is whether Bolton and the other hawks blew their tops over it and are about to get McMastered.

 

I'm no great fan of the US being in Syria by any measure, but this treatment of their Kurdish allies is about as cynical, amoral and disgusting as you can possibly get.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Zoraptor

[Cpl Halsbart]

You mean the very people who've been waved as an excuse to stay in this desert or that, but who have no political or racial will to accomplish a homeland they supposedly crave? There are so many types of Kurds, many even fight each other because they do not agree. This is typical: a foreign power drops in, gives them guns to fight somebody, leaves them behind with all the guns, they choose to fight each other instead of die forging a polity unto themselves.

 

Still have my doubts this is happening, but the SDF allegedly said it is:

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/kurdish-forces-confirm-us-and-french-forces-began-withdrawal-from-east-syria/

 

 

Its like an ATF honeypot busted by the FBI in a sting, and nobody told the undercover sheriff's deputies the feds were busting in.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Cpl Halsbart

[Zoraptor]

Almasdar is a poor source, Leith Fadel is in the US rather than Syria and his site is kind of... bipolar- everything is either great, Allah Souriya Bashar w Bas! or a disaster that makes Leonard Cohen look like a hopeless optimist. At least around Manbij the US troops are still there and haven't received any orders to change anything, yet.

 

Kurds in Syria are pretty united, there has been no meaningful intra Kurd conflict there and negligible intra SDF conflict- though the latter may change. They also support federalism rather than independence. The violence in Iraq is low grade and because it's in various groups interests to have Mafia style family control there since then you only have to deal with Barzani Iteration and Talebani Iteration instead of a proper government with, heh, the people's interests at heart. The mess over Kirkuk and the independence resolution was KDP (Barzaani) being willing to fight to the last PUK (Talebani) militiaman, but not even to the first KDP loss; that was 100% Barzani powerplay and nothing to do with Kurds overall.

 

There aren't really any CIA backed rebels in Syria any more, their program was a disaster and lost out to the Pentagon one (the few Arab Al Tanf based rebels, YPG and SDF) and was subsumed by Turkey after Trump cut their funding. Before that CIA backed Jihadi Arab groups were more than happy to behead children, be cannibals, fire poison gas at Kurds, work with ISIS and Al Qaeda and various other bits and pieces- now they do all that for Turkey instead. The Pentagon program in contrast more or less worked when it wasn't being hamstrung by political stupidities (ie having your politically mandated 'vetted' recruits defect en masse to... Al Qaeda). And yeah, CIA backed rebels and Pentagon backed ones fought each other semi regularly, one of the problems with backing jihadis because Saudi and Turkey vouch for them is that said jihadis find atheist Syrian Kurds to be literally worse than ISIS and almost as bad as those efreet worshipping secular Alawites.

[Cpl Halsbart]

If Syrian kurds want a state, they can make one then, or die trying. Not our fight at all.

 

https://archive.is/nbsXf

 

BRUSSELS — Belgium’s prime minister, under pressure from the right and left, submitted his resignation Tuesday in the face of a populist revolt over his migration policy, which opponents say threatens Belgian sovereignty. Prime Minister Charles Michel’s problems echo those of other European leaders, including President Emmanuel Macron of France, who are trying to maintain centrist governments in the face of opposition from both flanks.

 

When the people are extremists, and governments dindu nuffin.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Cpl Halsbart

[Zoraptor]

The Syrian Kurds DO NOT want a state. They want (con)federalism within Syria and not to be ethnically cleansed by Erdogan's jihadi goons like in Afrin. Philosophically their belief is more or less that States should become obsolete, but they've not espoused independence from Syria, just internal changes within. There aren't enough Kurds there for it to be feasible, they don't have enough resources and their relations with the government have historically been if nowhere near good in absolute terms at least better than in other countries. There's also been very little fighting between Kurdish groups and the Syrian government during the Civil War and a lot of negotiation and communication on all sorts of issues.

[Cpl Halsbart]

Dandy, so let them confederate by their own will to power, or die trying. Not our problem.

 

Meanwhile, https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-military-preparing-for-a-full-withdrawal-of-its-forces-from-northeastern-syria-11545225641

 

 

Anyhow, Syria was only an excuse to expand the war on ter' to Iran. It wasn't rooted in an actual conflict at all, but grown out of somebody's ennui in the state department. There are other paths to Tehran, but this one went nowhere.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Cpl Halsbart