Guard Dog Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 People are just incapable of minding their own goddamned business and determined to be offended by anything their eyes happen to see. Remember that "Year Zero" thing I was talking about earlier? It could happen. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicMage117 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Yep. Can't do or say anything without offending anyone these days. If someone doesn't like you, you could even offer them free money without catch and they'll still give some snide comment under their breath. Hell, even this forum has proved that a kind gesture can't be taken so I'm not surprised that tombstones are getting banned for being cross shaped lmao Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Elizabeth Warren is running in 2020. No surprise to anyone there. God I miss the good ol' days when a politician so thoroughly humiliated and discredited themselves as she has had the good sense to just go away. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 People are just incapable of minding their own goddamned business and determined to be offended by anything their eyes happen to see. Remember that "Year Zero" thing I was talking about earlier? It could happen. well, this has been an issue since founding o' the US. madison and jefferson were much opposed to Congress hiring a christian chaplain... but there is a christian chaplain who does a prayer before sessions o' Congress. images o' moses adorn the US supreme court building, but such images is specific related to moses as a secular lawgiver. most often, the State has common sense enough to avoid such entanglements given the long history o' such conflicts. the so-called lemon test is used in such cases: "three such tests may be gleaned from our cases. first, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion, board of education v. allen, 392 U. S. 236, 392 U. S. 243 (1968); finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion. walz, supra, at 397 U. S. 674." the Court tends to bend over backwards to make stuff fit the lemon test. multiple current Justices has expressed their frustration with the lemon test even though it is the law o' the land. more recent, the Court in a plurality opinion complete ignored the lemon test. took a gestalt view and determined the following display were not violating Establishment Clause. please note the stars o' david and eagle with flag motif included in the display-- were deemed inclusive rather than exclusive. additional, those who erected the ten commandments display made efforts to work with local religious organizations to come up with a non-devise display and the setting o' display itself did not seem to invite religious contemplation or meditation. were a touchy-feely concurrence by J. Breyer which gets most quotes. the current giant cross case happens every so often and there is much wailing and moaning. just to make clear, the typical resolution in such cases is that the cross is removed-- present case is only at issue 'cause it appears it will go to SCOTUS. and no, arlington cemetery cross displays is not in danger o' being removed due to this case, however, am admitting the giant cross case will be interesting to watch if for no other reason than to see how the Courts decide. lemon, van orden or something else? aside: maryland cross is a little different than a few other such cases. when the original maryland cross display were erected, it were on private land. didn't become part o' public land until 1961, more than thirty years after it were original erected. reason the cross were acquired by government were 'cause o' traffic concerns. the cross were original designed and constructed by private individuals, but such folks did not complete the monument-- were american legion who finished. american legion is chartered by Congress. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 People are just incapable of minding their own goddamned business and determined to be offended by anything their eyes happen to see. Remember that "Year Zero" thing I was talking about earlier? It could happen. No, I missed the 'year zero' thing you mentioned somewhere earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Navy SEALS are going to end up like the Canadian Airborne Regiment, some day. https://www.stripes.com/news/us/navy-seal-to-plead-not-guilty-to-murder-of-isis-teen-1.563095 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Grom, when did the free exercise clause fall out of favor? In any case the thing that annoys me about this is not just it's origin as a private construction but it's stated purpose as a memorial and not an explicitly religious statement. To my thinking that does not even allow this to be a first amendment issue. This isn't genuine concern over the establishment of a state religion this is picking a fight in purely ideological terms. It's using the court to impose their will on everyone else. It is petty. If this were something the state paid for and erected on state property with a bible verse or something inscribed on it I might even take his side on this. It's not. It's a 100+ year old war memorial that has existed all this time without someone trying to have it torn down. The thing is this can jeopardize places like Arlington where headstones are provided with crosses, stars of david, crescent moons, etc depending on the preference of the service member. All are religious symbols bought with tax dollars and placed on public land. My comment here really is less about the merits of his case in a legal sense. Rather that he and his organization are first rate mother f-----g a------s for picking such a petty fight to begin with. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 People are just incapable of minding their own goddamned business and determined to be offended by anything their eyes happen to see. Remember that "Year Zero" thing I was talking about earlier? It could happen. No, I missed the 'year zero' thing you mentioned somewhere earlier. The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is deemed largely irrelevant, as it will ideally be purged and replaced from the ground up. China & Cambodia have both done this in the past. Complete disassociation with all culture and history prior to the first day of the communist regime. Only with them is was punishable by death. I doubt we'll ever do anything exactly like it. But a great deal of effort seems to be going into erasing or poisoning things in our cultural past that don't really jive with modern sentiment. When old Christmas songs and cartoons are being banned, old books banned, etc it's not good. It's faulty reasoning to assume that event A must lead to event B (the old slippery slope) but it's no unreasonable to worry about it. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Grom, when did the free exercise clause fall out of favor? hasn't. free exercise is alive and well. establishment is different 'cause is government. government doesn't get free exercise. keep in mind, these cases always happen at the margins. why protect hare krishnas and satanists and scientologists? at opposite end, why give a darn about a ww1 memorial which is maybe a bit gaudy in scope, but is not offensive and don't genuine hurt anybody? the jewish rabbi or catholic nun has, at times, faced considerable persecution for their religious practice in this country and if law don't protect satanist or tom cruise, then is tough to explain how it protects sister mary rita. sure, a war memorial shouldn't offend any but most oversensitive schnook, but what does gd feel 'bout government support o' religious affiliated schools? state legislature passes law to help support struggling religious affiliated schools with a grant o' XX million dollars-- wherein only a couple o' episcopalian schools could possible qualify. am betting fewer people would be in favor o' the school support action by government, but given the vagueness and broadness o' the establishment clause, how do you read law so it prevents school funding but allows cross monuments to remain? both involve taxpayer money being spent on obvious religious stuff, yes? is always good to think o' the next guy when hearing 'bout some o' these silly cases. when nazis is getting first amendment protection, thinks o' how same decisions is protecting naacp as well as equal and/or gay rights activists. when war memorials is being targeted for religious advancement, thinks how skeevy government actors might use broader protections to deny benefits to jews or catholics. cases is always at margins, so results which is representing law o' the land is often silly or plain unreasonable to any ordinary person. the thing is, the law has gotta protect everybody, protect 'em equal. a common sense approach always sounds good... at first and until one realizes such is no longer adhering to notions o' rule o' law. leave decisions up to judges and legislators to handle these issues on a case-by-case issue will result in unfairness as is no longer law but rather individual judgement which decides right and wrong. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Warren means at least there will be no Hillary, no need to split the neoliberal democratic base votes. Not sure if Sanders will have enough fire against Warren tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) as an aside, am complete baffled by suggestion o' using national emergency to build the wall. not complete surprised, but is nevertheless confounding. executive powers for national emergency to do an end around on Congress is a curious claim and am having a hard time believing any Con law attorney would recommend such to the chief executive. is possible he read on breitbart or heard on fox news that national emergency is a solution? am admitted not even sure what all entails "build a wall," but is not like building a kid's treehouse in the backyard. at the very least, gonna need condemn and take land from americans on a large scale, which is gonna be a multiyear process. and is not as if the fed runs steel fabrication and concrete supply companies, so is trump planning on taking from private american companies? national emergency won't instant fill government coffers, so how is trump gonna pay for all the takings? declare a national emergency to build on an enormous and complex scale w/o money is... even if trump could convince Court o' a national emergency, which is probable the easiest part as executive discretion is broad, such executive powers does not magical confer money to the executive. the emergency powers is not made up by trump as he sees fit but rather is needing be already legislated powers conferred 'pon the President, and the chief executive must specific enumerate which emergency powers he intends to utilize contemporaneous with declaring a national emergency. trump could force steel and concrete producers to sell to the government, but he would still need pay. following is most relevant case, for any willing to read, but is not a helpful case for the chief exec. https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/343us579 for those wanting meat and potatoes... "when the President takes measures incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress, his power is at its lowest ebb.” HA! Good Fun! ps keep in mind, trump had a plan to plunder $450 million discretionary monies for defense last year to get started on wall and were soundly rebuffed. even if trump somehow acquired every defense discretionary dollar, he still winds up woeful short o' $5 billion. kill big defense projects as a solution? *chuckle* and is still gonna lose likely Court battle considering youngstown sheet & tube co. Edited January 5, 2019 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) The whole 'using emergency powers to force the wall to be built' sounds like a serious abuse of power to me as he's just using it for frivolous reasons. Sure, it's probably just Trump bull****ting, but it seems like such a serious abuse of power that the Democrats would be justified in impeaching him for it. Also, Trump says that the partial shutdown could go on for years, which is quite literally political suicide, he's boxed himself in and the only way out is through the back of the box by mechanical force. "when the President takes measures incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress, his power is at its lowest ebb.” Up until now, the Republicans have been letting Trump more or less do what he wants. With a divided Congress, he is now struggling to find ways to get what he wants without some form of extortion and is finding that his usual tactics aren't working. Edited January 5, 2019 by smjjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Also, Trump says that the partial shutdown could go on for years, which is quite literally political suicide, he's boxed himself in and the only way out is through the back of the box by mechanical force. The unique thing about Trump is he doesn't care. I don't recall a confrontation between the Executive and Congress where neither ever backs down. I must admit I am VERY intrigued that it might finally be happening! When you come to the realizations the whole thing is just a s--t show no matter who is in control and the outcomes are ultimately meaningless politics does become a little more entertaining when guys like Trump have power. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 It's been the case that through enough discussion and critical consideration there was always at least some small kernel of a mutually beneficial resolution between branches that check power. Sometimes an impasse required a more pressing matter that would encourage the consolation to a previous sticking point. Trump has no interest in navigating that realm of thought and policy. His game theory is one of pouring gasoline on near an area that has routine sparks then blaming the ever present sparks for starting the fire, then refusing to put it out until he gets all of his demands. There is nothing about that experiment that will de-cluster**** the sort of ****-shows that had already been going on in our congress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 His game theory is one of pouring gasoline on near an area that has routine sparks then blaming the ever present sparks for starting the fire, then refusing to put it out until he gets all of his demands. Great analysis! 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicMage117 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Judging from the video title, I'm gonna say it looks like some sort of QAnon BS and just more of your edgelording sonicmage, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicMage117 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Judging from the video title, I'm gonna say it looks like some sort of QAnon BS and just more of your edgelording sonicmage, I'm guessing this means you did not watch the video though? Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 NY Magazine - Trump did not understand what a shutdown would do "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) I don't think anybody would be surprised by that at this point..... You know, it doesn't seem all that hard to look at past shutdowns, but then again, most shutdowns don't usually last more than maybe a week and don't involve such intractable problems as Trump being stubborn. Also, given that Fox news is the one that goaded him into the shutdown, I'm still waiting for them to accidentially goad him into starting a war, a la USS Maine. Edited January 8, 2019 by smjjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 trump bad, we got it, he will take US to war, we got it, no matter that he talked you out of one and taking troops from other, you will probably save chunk of cash of this shut down as well I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BiLQtVJVEs is possible the most common sorta trump lie. he states stuff as fact based on what he believes could be or should be true. make up statistics. make up sources. make up findings and conclusions and... were a discussion earlier on boards where we noted trump made up mit data 'bout climate change. made up wrong claims 'bout mit conclusions regarding rate o' climate change. why? well, the guys at mit is smarty, and climate change as a result o' human behavior is a hoax, so obvious the mit guys is rejecting human causation arguments, right? trump then states as fact and invents numbers to support. is weird. oh, and jic, reagan border wall views were not aligning with trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/21/what-ronald-reagan-actually-said-about-border-security-according-history-not-donald-trump/?utm_term=.1cb0ef3ad307 “Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit,” he said. “And then while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back they can go back.” these kinda lies from trump is just so pointless... save for fact a large % o' his base not only believes the misrepresentations but defends such silliness... adds insult to irony by adding in a claim o' "fake news!" is not the lies which bother us... which is exact what bothers us. have become so numb and fatigued by constant trump fibs we hardly even notice or care. trump has been so consistent mendacious we have a hard time working up any real emotion regarding individual mistruths. through deflection, false equivalency and simple fatigue, have been worn down to point where we simple accept the new status quo. HA! Good Fun! ps as to the myth 'bout shutdown saving money http://time.com/money/5494004/government-shutdown-costs-trump-border-wall/ Edited January 8, 2019 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 The government is working as intended. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) trump bad, we got it, he will take US to war, we got it, no matter that he talked you out of one and taking troops from other, you will probably save chunk of cash of this shut down as well Which one did he talk the US out of ? And who knows if they're actually leaving Syria, Bolton is speaking differently from Trump. And hey, government employees are people, too Edited January 8, 2019 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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