The Political Thread - Machiavelli Edition

[smjjames]

Not sure what the bleeped out bit is supposed to be HoonDing... The GOP?

[Zoraptor]

Pfft, Trump is claiming China is meddling in the midterms, without proof. This is exactly the kind of thing that he should have credibility on, but nope, people are just going to believe he is deflecting on Russian meddling.

 

If it's happening on a serious level, then obviously it's a problem, but this looks like just another of Trump's wild accusations.

 

He's probably talking about them targeting swing states' products with their counter sanctions, which is definitely happening and which the EU is doing as well to a lesser extent with their response to the steel/ aluminium tarriffs.

 

If China wasn't interfering in other ways I'd be amazed though.

[Pidesco]

 

That shrug was awesome.

 

https://giant.gfycat.com/AthleticEnviousAfricanbushviper.mp4

[ktchong]

Two points on Brett Kavanaugh and the latest - and most serious - accusation against him:

 

1.  The third accuser, Julie Swetnick, made a very serious allegation against  Kavanaugh, i.e., GANG RAPE of MULTIPLE WOMEN. I don't know if she is telling the truth. Her claim is so shocking that, I have to admit, it's kinda difficult to believe.  HOWEVER, consider this: she has security clearance - which means she had gone through an intensive background check - and her career depends on having the clearance.  She has submitted a sworn affidavit against Kavanaugh, and a sworn affidavit carries criminal liability. If she perjured herself, (i.e., meaning if she lied in her sworn affidavit,) she will be criminally charged, and perjury is a definitive reason to revoke her security clearance.  That will destroy her career. So she is literally putting her whole life on the line by coming forward and making a sworn a sworn affidavit to accuse Kavanaugh.  Take that for what it's worth.

 

2. At this point, it would be shortsighted for Republicans to try to rush through Kavanaugh's confirmation now that the third woman has come forward with such a serious allegation. The allegation is not unwanted sexual harassment or groping.  I know a lot of conservatives and Republicans think of as harassment and groping as "what is the big deal?" and not really a crime; and, frankly, it is debatable whether saying the wrong things to a woman or simply touching a woman when she did not want to be touched should be considered as sexual harassment or assault, and the man's life and career should be destroyed for that reason. However, the current allegation is GANG RAPE of MULTIPLE WOMEN. There is no doubt that an ACTUAL rape is a heinous felony.

 

Now that Kavanaugh has been accused of being an accessory/participant in multiple gang rapes, there will be an on-going investigation whether he is confirmed or not. Even if Republicans hurriedly confirmed him, the investigation will continue. If the investigation later confirms that the gang rapes actually happened, then Democrats will have the perfect reason to  call for an impeachment and removal of Kavanaugh from the Supreme Court based on the rape charges.  

 

So, if Republicans want to play this game, then Democrats should time the impeachment and removal of Kanavaugh after a Democrat wins back the presidency.  Then the next President will be able to able to replace Kanavaugh with a liberal Justice and flip the Supreme Court. In fact, Democrats will be able to run on "Impeach and Remove Gang Rapist Kanavaugh" in 2020 - and continue to run on "give us the Senate majority so we can finally impeach and remove the gang-rapist from the Supreme Court," to drive women turnout, in every election cycle, until he is successfully impeached and removed.  Republicans should carefully consider the potential consequence s before rushing through Kanavaugh's confirmation.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[injurai]

 

That shrug was awesome.

 

https://giant.gfycat.com/AthleticEnviousAfricanbushviper.mp4

 

Watching Trump's international politics unfold feels like a fever dream.

[ktchong]

Except the "Prime Directive" is the Chinese explicit and guiding principle on dealing with other nations, (which, of course, contrasts sharply with the US foreign policies of endlessly interfering and meddling in the domestic affairs and politics of all other nations.)

 

 

Dotard "Joffrey" Drumpf is conflating China's retaliations to his tariffs with meddling in the US midterm election.  He started the trade war, and when China reacted by targeting red and particularly swing states for tariff retaliation, he started complaining and whining, "That is interfering in US election!!!"

 

Retaliation is not meddling.  It is fair game.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[Hurlshort]

Alright, I'm convinced. Kavanaugh does not deserve to be a Supreme Court Justice. You either believe Ford or you don't. If you believe her, then I do not believe there is any way you can justify giving him a seat on the highest court in the land, regardless of politics.

[Guard Dog]

This whole thing is a farce. If you support Kavanaugh you don't believe her, if you oppose him you do. The truth is unknowable so the politics of the beholder decide the truth. Does she have a political axe to grind? Do the others? Is there money involved? Who knows. Keith Ellison assaults his girlfriend so badly she flees the house and calls 911. Al Franken who sat right next to all the democrats on this committee before he resigned has multiple accusations of sexual misconduct. The are defended by the same people who are believing every word Ford says. Sheldon Whitehouse used political influence to sidestep insider trading charges. Richard Durbin was caught funneling tax money to his wife's clients. Let's not forget Clinton's dalliances many of whom accused him of forcing himself on them. He was defended by all these people too. But there are no saints in hell. If he were a democrat appointee and the Republicans on the committee had some kind of dirt like this the screws would be turning just as hard with the roles reversed.

 

Just a bunch of s--t covered rats infesting the same sewers. And here they are on TV complaining about how much the other rats stink.

[ktchong]

 

Two points on Brett Kavanaugh and the latest - and most serious - accusation against him:

If you can say that with a straight face I would applaud you.

 

Let's forget that she have nothing to back this up.

Let's forget she is represented by creepy porn lawyer.

Let's forget she only now reveals knowledge of gang rape ring.

Let's forget she claims she saw this multiple times and still was going to those parties.

Let's forget all that.

Please explain to me what 18 year old college student was doing at 15 year olds parties without using the words: "sexual predator"

 

 

I was going to respond, but someone else already did:

 

As for if there are anyone who could corroborate with the accuser's allegation of gang rape:

 

[Elizabeth] Rasor [the college girlfriend] recalled that [Mark] Judge had told her ashamedly of an incident that involved him and other boys taking turns having sex with a drunk woman.

 

Elizabeth Rasor is Mike Judge's college girlfriend.  (Mike Judge is Brett Kavanaugh's best friend in high school, and they hanged out together in high school and parties.)  She has stepped forward and said that she is willing to testify in a sworn affidavit and to the Congress.

 

Apparently there are currently also the FOURTH and FIFTH women coming out and making  similar accusations (of rape) against Brett Kavanaugh.  Given the pattern of how these things go, I say their identities will be revealed shortly.  (The media confusingly reports both as the "fourth" women but they are really two separate women, two separate additional accusations, coming out at the same time.)

 

Anyway, I would not worry about if Kavanaugh is confirmed.  Given the nature of the allegations, an investigation or multiple investigations will look into the allegations, and the investigations will continue after the confirmation.  If the investigations later conclude that the rapes happened and Kavanaugh was a participant or accessory, Democrats will most definitely impeach and remove him from the Supreme Court when they take back the Congress and White House.  The impeachment and removal of a Supreme Court Justice is unprecedented, but so is  having a criminal and rapist sitting on the Supreme Court.  An unprecedented scenario calls for an unprecedented measures. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[smjjames]

 

 

Two points on Brett Kavanaugh and the latest - and most serious - accusation against him:

If you can say that with a straight face I would applaud you.

 

Let's forget that she have nothing to back this up.

Let's forget she is represented by creepy porn lawyer.

Let's forget she only now reveals knowledge of gang rape ring.

Let's forget she claims she saw this multiple times and still was going to those parties.

Let's forget all that.

Please explain to me what 18 year old college student was doing at 15 year olds parties without using the words: "sexual predator"

 

 

I was going to respond, but someone else already did:

 

 

 

 

He was 17 and not in college yet.

 

 

This whole thing is a farce. If you support Kavanaugh you don't believe her, if you oppose him you do. The truth is unknowable so the politics of the beholder decide the truth. Does she have a political axe to grind? Do the others? Is there money involved? Who knows. Keith Ellison assaults his girlfriend so badly she flees the house and calls 911. Al Franken who sat right next to all the democrats on this committee before he resigned has multiple accusations of sexual misconduct. The are defended by the same people who are believing every word Ford says. Sheldon Whitehouse used political influence to sidestep insider trading charges. Richard Durbin was caught funneling tax money to his wife's clients. Let's not forget Clinton's dalliances many of whom accused him of forcing himself on them. He was defended by all these people too. But there are no saints in hell. If he were a democrat appointee and the Republicans on the committee had some kind of dirt like this the screws would be turning just as hard with the roles reversed.

 

Just a bunch of s--t covered rats infesting the same sewers. And here they are on TV complaining about how much the other rats stink.

 

Theres plenty of hypocrisy to go around on both sides of the aisle, I agree there. Why you're singling out Democrats though, I don't know, theres no shortage of misdeeds on the Republican side.

 

The whole thing became a farce the minute they decided to ram the nomination through without doing a full vetting.

[Guard Dog]

I pointed out the blue rat hypocrisy because it's their show right now. If the red rats were pulling out the surprise witnesses at the 11th hour.I'd be down on them.

 

I'll tell you one thing. Dem or Repub God help every SCOTUS nominee going forward. No matter who you are it's going to be all out war.

[smjjames]

Point taken. And yeah, I've seen an article or two saying that if this becomes the new norm, it's going to be brutal. Sen. Graham even said during the break that if this becomes the new norm, the Democrats better watch out as far as their nominees.

 

Anyways, Ford is finished with her testimony, it's a 45 min break and Kavanaugh is next.

Edited September 27, 2018 by smjjames

[ktchong]

Frankly, Republicans' best play at the moment is to withdraw Brett Kavanaugh's nomination, and nominate Amy Cony Barrett as a replacement.  They still have time to confirm  her.  She is ultra-conservative and a woman.  It would be difficult for Democrats to block a female nominee to the Supreme Court, and I doubt she would have allegations of sexual misconducts from her high school or college.   So, if you want to falsely accuse Democrats of foul play in blocking Kavanaugh's confirmation, then it would be wise to nominate a woman to "outplay" Democrats.

[ktchong]

I pointed out the blue rat hypocrisy because it's their show right now. If the red rats were pulling out the surprise witnesses at the 11th hour.I'd be down on them.

 

I'll tell you one thing. Dem or Repub God help every SCOTUS nominee going forward. No matter who you are it's going to be all out war.

 

I would not worry about it.  Whether Kavanaugh is confirmed or not, there definitely should be investigations into the women's allegations.  If the investigations later shows that the rapes happened and then possibly lead to the prosecution and/or conviction of Kavanaugh, then Republicans won't be able to say any BS - because they will be proven to have been dead wrong on Kavanaugh in retrospect.

 

So, Democrats' best play right now is to ensure that an investigation into the women's allegations will happen, whether Kavanaugh is confirmed or not.  If Kavanaugh is confirmed and then the investigation shows that the rapes did happened, that is actually the worse outcome for Republicans and a favorable one for Democrats.

 

Personally, I did not believe when there was only one accuser.  However, now that there are the second, third, fourth and fifth women, then the sum of their accusations add up - and I believe the outcome will favor Democrats whether Kavanaugh is confirmed or not, as long as there is an investigation into the women's allegations to find out the truth.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[smjjames]

I think they should nominate Merrick Garland, if they reject him, fine, but give him an actual chance.

 

@ktchong: If you mean before the midterms, they'd have to rush it like nothing else before, probably too fast for even the Republicans.

[Guard Dog]

Kt, it does not have to be sexual assault. It can be anything. Maybe she cheated on a Calculus exam in college. Hell during her appellate court nomination hearing Diane Feinstein practically called for her to be fed to the lions for being religious. That would be an issue they could use. This is the new normal. They are going to go over every interactions, meeting, written document, whatever of the the nominee. And heck if that turns up nothing maybe they will just make something up. No matter which color of rat is doing the nominating this is how it is now. You will be destroyed. Nothing personal.

 

[smjjames]

I'd say religion is fair game for questioning, after all, they want to know how that plays into her decisionmaking. I've heard of what you're talking about, though I don't remember what the question was specifically. Theres probably better ways of asking about that which don't come off as an attack on religion.

[ktchong]

This is already the "normal" when Republicans obstructed and denied Obama his right as the President in nominating a replacement to  Antonin Scalia on the Supreme Court .  The obstruction was unprecedented, and it was Republicans who did the obstruction.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[Gfted1]

*sigh*

 

The "rapes" would no longer be prosecutable due to the statue of limitation for that crime running out ~30 years ago.

[Malcador]

This whole thing is a farce. If you support Kavanaugh you don't believe her, if you oppose him you do. The truth is unknowable so the politics of the beholder decide the truth. Does she have a political axe to grind? Do the others? Is there money involved? Who knows. Keith Ellison assaults his girlfriend so badly she flees the house and calls 911. Al Franken who sat right next to all the democrats on this committee before he resigned has multiple accusations of sexual misconduct. The are defended by the same people who are believing every word Ford says. Sheldon Whitehouse used political influence to sidestep insider trading charges. Richard Durbin was caught funneling tax money to his wife's clients. Let's not forget Clinton's dalliances many of whom accused him of forcing himself on them. He was defended by all these people too. But there are no saints in hell. If he were a democrat appointee and the Republicans on the committee had some kind of dirt like this the screws would be turning just as hard with the roles reversed.

 

Just a bunch of s--t covered rats infesting the same sewers. And here they are on TV complaining about how much the other rats stink.

 

Problem is that lifetime appointment, I guess.  Also, Graham's bemoaning of partisanship is a bit rich.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Malcador

[ktchong]

*sigh*

 

The "rapes" would no longer be prosecutable due to the statue of limitation for that crime running out ~30 years ago.

 

Not in Maryland, which does not have a statue of limitation for rapes.

 

Also, the investigation does not have to lead to a prosecution.  Its only purpose is to prove or disprove the women's allegations.  If the investigation proves the rapes happened, it will do serious damage to Republicans who rushed through the confirmation and put a rapist on  the Supreme Court.   Republicans will become the "Party of Rapists" - the ® will stand for Rape.

 

The Party of Bigots, Racists, and Rapists.  It will be glorious.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[Gfted1]

Isnt Yale in Connecticut?

 

EDIT: Oh, you mean his high school.

[smjjames]

Theres one that allegedly took place in Colorado in 1998 and theres another that seems to be secondary reporting in Rhode Island of something happening on a boat and the womans friends later giving Kavanaugh a beating. The FBI really seems like the best place to handle this what with multiple accusations that need cooroboration.

Edited September 27, 2018 by smjjames

[ktchong]

Isnt Yale in Connecticut?

 

Brett Kavanaugh's Georgetown Preparatory School, where the alleged rapes happened, is in Maryland.

 

 

 

Theres one that allegedly took place in Colorado in 1998 and theres another that seems to be secondary reporting in Rhode Island of something happening on a boat and the womans friends later giving Kavanaugh a beating. The FBI really seems like the best place to handle this what with multiple accusations that need cooroboration.

 

 

Links?  I thought most of them happened in Georgetown Prep, one (the second woman) in Yale, and one (the fifth woman, the most recent case and an actual rape in 1989) in Washington.

Edited September 27, 2018 by ktchong

[Malcador]

The other woman's, Swetnick,  took place in Maryland. 

 

One fun thing about this,is got to hear what callers into C-SPAN are like.  Some..special people.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Malcador