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Petition - Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels? Please voice your concern here


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Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels?

To answer the question in the thread title: yeap, would like to see PotD made harder on the late levels.

Because I like character-building and testing the party composition vs hard bosses and bounties.

 

But do agree that Obsidian investing time in something that would affect only 5-10% of players might be not as efficient as putting time into something that would benefit all players.

 

So a question arises: if the late game is easy on PotD for PotD players, is it also easy for non-PotD players on lower difficulties?

 

If yes:

- then this difficulty curve thing affects a larger playerbase; and it would be nice to see it tuned.

If not:

- then leave the majority of enemies as they are. And only tune-up 2-3 "bosses", such that there will be no need for these quotation marks.

 

P.S. Btw, KaineParker made a nice remark about grazing. Increasing all defenses/AR by a fixed amount only leads to a longer time-to-kill and mostly adds tedium rather than a tactical challenge.

Imo, strong enemies require asymetric defenses/AR bonuses, different offenses/behaviour and smarter AI in order to feel unique and fun.

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I believe instead of them increasing the number of enemies per an encounter, they should just improve the AI's of the enemy. There is no point of having a bigger group of enemies, when they are all stupid.

 

They could also add legendary weapons on some enemies, to make battles harder, 

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They cant improve the AI.

 

They AI is allready at what they can do best. 

Settling for what you can only do isn't a good reason, how do you have a group of mod makers who can make more and better AI options? 

 

That just sounds like someones being lazy IMO

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Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels?

But do agree that Obsidian investing time in something that would affect only 5-10% of players might be not as efficient as putting time into something that would benefit all players.

 

So a question arises: if the late game is easy on PotD for PotD players, is it also easy for non-PotD players on lower difficulties?

 

If yes:

- then this difficulty curve thing affects a larger playerbase; and it would be nice to see it tuned.

Pretty sure the answer depends on your definition of POTD and other items Obsidian are working on.

Given veteran players can't up the difficulty to POTD without console commands I think it's a safe bet to say it is too easy for them.

Ofcourse coding to allow players to up the difficulty level at end game is likely a lot easier than balancing.

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They cant improve the AI.

 

They AI is allready at what they can do best. 

Settling for what you can only do isn't a good reason, how do you have a group of mod makers who can make more and better AI options? 

 

That just sounds like someones being lazy IMO

 

Oh, we do? Please show me which mods modify the AI behaviour of enemies, I'd love to try it.

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They cant improve the AI.

 

They AI is allready at what they can do best.

Settling for what you can only do isn't a good reason, how do you have a group of mod makers who can make more and better AI options?

 

That just sounds like someones being lazy IMO

Oh, we do? Please show me which mods modify the AI behaviour of enemies, I'd love to try it.
I'd certainly take your word for it.

However wouldn't it be quite easy for Obsidian to allow you to. I.e. give you access to party AI scripting for enemies?

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D

 

 

 

 

They cant improve the AI.

They AI is allready at what they can do best.

Settling for what you can only do isn't a good reason, how do you have a group of mod makers who can make more and better AI options?

That just sounds like someones being lazy IMO
Oh, we do? Please show me which mods modify the AI behaviour of enemies, I'd love to try it.
I'd certainly take your word for it.
However wouldn't it be quite easy for Obsidian to allow you to. I.e. give you access to party AI scripting for enemies?

 

Thats exactly what I'm implying. (The enemies use the same AI scripts we use, I'm pretty sure they are programmed to act a certain way already)- this can be improved

Edited by Amentep
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Implied? You clearly stated that there is already a group of mod makers who can make more and better AI options. So I asked you to show me these mods.

 

You also state that enemies use the same AI scripts that the players do, how can you know that without looking at source code?

Edited by Amentep
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Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels?

To answer the question in the thread title: yeap, would like to see PotD made harder on the late levels.

Because I like character-building and testing the party composition vs hard bosses and bounties.

 

But do agree that Obsidian investing time in something that would affect only 5-10% of players might be not as efficient as putting time into something that would benefit all players.

 

So a question arises: if the late game is easy on PotD for PotD players, is it also easy for non-PotD players on lower difficulties?

 

If yes:

- then this difficulty curve thing affects a larger playerbase; and it would be nice to see it tuned.

If not:

- then leave the majority of enemies as they are. And only tune-up 2-3 "bosses", such that there will be no need for these quotation marks.

 

P.S. Btw, KaineParker made a nice remark about grazing. Increasing all defenses/AR by a fixed amount only leads to a longer time-to-kill and mostly adds tedium rather than a tactical challenge.

Imo, strong enemies require asymetric defenses/AR bonuses, different offenses/behaviour and smarter AI in order to feel unique and fun.

 

 

This is actually a good point, we need insight on more non-POTD players, or even open a thread for non-POTD playthrough difficulty. If this is true, then it affect more players than just POTD players :)

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Keep the conversation to the topic at hand and not attacking the other posters.  I've edited posts to remove personal sniping but hopefully keep the context of the conversation.

 

A simple guide, if your post includes some comment about the lack of intelligence of another poster, you're on the wrong track for posting here.

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there is a mod request thread

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/104758-mod-requests/

ask here if you need some particular balance.. of course explain your idea dont' fill the request with something like that:
'I want a more balanced POTD'

 

but be more specific

Instead about AI there is already a mod released on nexus that have custom ai conditions , i think that also something about enemy AI could be doable.
The maker atm is in holiday  so i'll wait that he come back cuz he know this system better than anyone else

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/88

 

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I have given this some more thought, and I thought of one possible solution to balance out the difficulty curve drop off: nerf more unique items. I know that doing such a thing would almost certainly result in a great gnashing of teeth and wailing here, but being loaded to the gills in magic equipment provides the player with a massive asymmetric advantage compared to NPCs and creatures. The PotD enemy bonuses are meant to compensate for this, but at the end of the day, players will always be able to finangle sets of complementary enchantments on characters that far outclass those static bonuses. Reducing the enchantment bonuses in various ways should result in a narrowing of that gap.

Edited by DozingDragon
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I have given this some more thought, and I thought of one possible solution to balance out the difficulty curve drop off: nerf more unique items. I know that doing such a thing would almost certainly result in a great gnashing of teeth and wailing here, but being loaded to the gills in magic equipment provides the player with a massive asymmetric advantage compared to NPCs and creatures. The PotD enemy bonuses are meant to compensate for this, but at the end of the day, players will always be able to finangle sets of complementary enchantments on characters that far outclass those static bonuses. Reducing the enchantment bonuses in various ways should result in a narrowing of that gap.

or make magic items more rare

 

it is to easy to be able to get legendary armor so quick and so easy to be able to steal all the stuff from shops in neketaka. Legendary armor should be rare with only one or 2 sets in the game

 

Being able to do this makes magic items feel cheap and also causes balancing problems like you have said

Edited by Teclis23
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Yes let's beat up our enemies with wooden sticks and throw rocks at them. That sounds like a very fun gaming experience.

 

Prehistory of Eternity

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If you believe a post is trolling, please report it rather than calling another member a troll, telling another member to stop trolling and/or trying to pick a fight with another member.

 

I've posted once - on this very page - requesting everyone keep on topic rather than sniping at one another personally; if the utility of the thread is exhausted such that productive conversation is no longer to be had, we can lock the thread.

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I have given this some more thought, and I thought of one possible solution to balance out the difficulty curve drop off: nerf more unique items. I know that doing such a thing would almost certainly result in a great gnashing of teeth and wailing here, but being loaded to the gills in magic equipment provides the player with a massive asymmetric advantage compared to NPCs and creatures. The PotD enemy bonuses are meant to compensate for this, but at the end of the day, players will always be able to finangle sets of complementary enchantments on characters that far outclass those static bonuses. Reducing the enchantment bonuses in various ways should result in a narrowing of that gap.

or make magic items more rare

 

it is to easy to be able to get legendary armor so quick and so easy to be able to steal all the stuff from shops in neketaka. Legendary armor should be rare with only one or 2 sets in the game

 

Being able to do this makes magic items feel cheap and also causes balancing problems like you have said

 

Nah. Without good loot, the game becomes boring and not worth to play.

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