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Petition - Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels? Please voice your concern here


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Right now im playing berath's challenge and tripple crown mode. Damn it's awesome.There is no save/load(as in tabletop game lol) so  I shoude use my brain at 100% every battle(if i cant escape them) or *You Died*.

 

Lost Eder and Alot in ship battle and very miss them. ;(

Try Magrans Challenge with Triple Crown. It's unbearable, not because of difficulty but because of randomly resetting AI settings/Party formation

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Right now im playing berath's challenge and tripple crown mode. Damn it's awesome.There is no save/load(as in tabletop game lol) so  I shoude use my brain at 100% every battle(if i cant escape them) or *You Died*.

 

Lost Eder and Alot in ship battle and very miss them. ;(

Try Magrans Challenge with Triple Crown. It's unbearable, not because of difficulty but because of randomly resetting AI settings/Party formation

 

Magrans Challenges are EZ, only unbearable thing is the poop bugs

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think people are looking with rosy eyes on Poe1's difficulty. That game also stops being hard around maybe level 9 even on Potd. Or did anyone truly have problems with the game when having access to Ninagauth's Shadow Flame, Devotions of the Faithful, Gaze of the Adragan, Lightning Storm, etc? Fact is, once you get access to the powerful Priest/Wizard/Druid spells in Poe1 that  game becomes a cake walk even on Potd. Not to mention Cipher's with Amplified Wave, Puppet Master, etc. 

 

The only way Poe1 is hard is if you neglect to take casters. 

 

And spells being per rest doesn't even limit you much because most dungeons give you a resting supply or two and that on top of the two you already have. For example Durgan's Battery has a lot of tough encounters but you get one rest supply on the top level, two on the second, and two on the third. More  than enough to spam your top spells to heart's content.

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I think people are looking with rosy eyes on Poe1's difficulty. That game also stops being hard around maybe level 9 even on Potd. Or did anyone truly have problems with the game when having access to Ninagauth's Shadow Flame, Devotions of the Faithful, Gaze of the Adragan, Lightning Storm, etc? Fact is, once you get access to the powerful Priest/Wizard/Druid spells in Poe1 that  game becomes a cake walk even on Potd. Not to mention Cipher's with Amplified Wave, Puppet Master, etc. 

 

The only way Poe1 is hard is if you neglect to take casters. 

 

And spells being per rest doesn't even limit you much because most dungeons give you a resting supply or two and that on top of the two you already have. For example Durgan's Battery has a lot of tough encounters but you get one rest supply on the top level, two on the second, and two on the third. More  than enough to spam your top spells to heart's content.

 

I don't think this is true. Outside of Port Maje, Deadfire is easier than its predecessor, even the original PoE's later areas. As well, PoE is always rewarding players for more efficient combat. Because of health decay and per rest abilities, the upper limit for maximum efficiency in the original game is extremely high. In Deadfire, once you're avoiding knockdowns in fights... that's literally it, you've hit the upper limit of the combat's difficulty.

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I think people are looking with rosy eyes on Poe1's difficulty. That game also stops being hard around maybe level 9 even on Potd. Or did anyone truly have problems with the game when having access to Ninagauth's Shadow Flame, Devotions of the Faithful, Gaze of the Adragan, Lightning Storm, etc? Fact is, once you get access to the powerful Priest/Wizard/Druid spells in Poe1 that  game becomes a cake walk even on Potd. Not to mention Cipher's with Amplified Wave, Puppet Master, etc. 

 

The only way Poe1 is hard is if you neglect to take casters. 

 

And spells being per rest doesn't even limit you much because most dungeons give you a resting supply or two and that on top of the two you already have. For example Durgan's Battery has a lot of tough encounters but you get one rest supply on the top level, two on the second, and two on the third. More  than enough to spam your top spells to heart's content.

 

I don't think this is true. Outside of Port Maje, Deadfire is easier than its predecessor, even the original PoE's later areas. As well, PoE is always rewarding players for more efficient combat. Because of health decay and per rest abilities, the upper limit for maximum efficiency in the original game is extremely high. In Deadfire, once you're avoiding knockdowns in fights... that's literally it, you've hit the upper limit of the combat's difficulty.

 

 

I'm not saying Poe2 is harder, but Poe1 is very easy if you know what you're doing, and health loss is not very relevant with the amount of rest supplies they throw at you even on Potd.  

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One of the reasons of low difficulty is the "soft" afflictions, which don't affect much on your (and enemies) combat efficiency, and conters relatively easy.

I'll explain:

A Blinded affliction, for example. In PoE 1 it gives -29 Acc, -20 Reflex and Deflection - if you were Blinded, you literally can't hit anyone and anyone can easy hit you, and you can't counter that just applying Perseption Indpiration.

Same for others - if you're was prone on the ground you can't do anything, if you're was paralized or petrified it was serious danger becose of 100% incoming crits.

 

In Deadfire... -5 of Perseption or any other attribute, which i can cancel with cheap inspirations - pfff... Even paralize looks like a joke, compared to PoE 1 paralyze (not mention petrification).

The only real danger in Deadfire is to be focused with firearms attacks from multiple enemies (i hate it, it looks dumb everytime) and some high-level spells (most of which enemies don't use).

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One of the reasons of low difficulty is the "soft" afflictions, which don't affect much on your (and enemies) combat efficiency, and conters relatively easy.

I'll explain:

A Blinded affliction, for example. In PoE 1 it gives -29 Acc, -20 Reflex and Deflection - if you were Blinded, you literally can't hit anyone and anyone can easy hit you, and you can't counter that just applying Perseption Indpiration.

Same for others - if you're was prone on the ground you can't do anything, if you're was paralized or petrified it was serious danger becose of 100% incoming crits.

 

In Deadfire... -5 of Perseption or any other attribute, which i can cancel with cheap inspirations - pfff... Even paralize looks like a joke, compared to PoE 1 paralyze (not mention petrification).

The only real danger in Deadfire is to be focused with firearms attacks from multiple enemies (i hate it, it looks dumb everytime) and some high-level spells (most of which enemies don't use).

 

Some afflictions can go unnoticed in PoE2, if you have somebody casting inspiration spells with frequency.

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One of the reasons of low difficulty is the "soft" afflictions, which don't affect much on your (and enemies) combat efficiency, and conters relatively easy.

I'll explain:

A Blinded affliction, for example. In PoE 1 it gives -29 Acc, -20 Reflex and Deflection - if you were Blinded, you literally can't hit anyone and anyone can easy hit you, and you can't counter that just applying Perseption Indpiration.

Same for others - if you're was prone on the ground you can't do anything, if you're was paralized or petrified it was serious danger becose of 100% incoming crits.

 

In Deadfire... -5 of Perseption or any other attribute, which i can cancel with cheap inspirations - pfff... Even paralize looks like a joke, compared to PoE 1 paralyze (not mention petrification).

The only real danger in Deadfire is to be focused with firearms attacks from multiple enemies (i hate it, it looks dumb everytime) and some high-level spells (most of which enemies don't use).

It is same when u cast affliction on enemies, actually I don’t like how PoE 1 works, every combat is just about who CC who first, which is lame to me.

 

But I do agree that counter lvl3 affliction with lvl1 inspiration is a lame setting. I was expecting it to be substraction, so when lvl 3 affliction meet lvl 1 inspiration, it becomes lvl2 affliction, and vice versa.

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"every combat is just about who CC who first, which is lame to me." - can't agree with that. I've managed to win many PoE 1 encounters with half of my party members Dominated (included Priest) or Paralized/Prone for long duration - it was quite challenging but very fun encounters.

 

"lvl3 affliction with lvl1 inspiration is a lame setting. I was expecting it to be substraction, so when lvl 3 affliction meet lvl 1 inspiration, it becomes lvl2 affliction, and vice versa. " - agreed. When i realized this "cheap counters" system, it was a hell of a surprise.

Edited by Phenomenum
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/*  upscaled PotD without blessings and mods */

 

PotD is just too easy, and it can't be fixed by increasing stats of your enemies.

 

As the other guy said, afflictions are way too weak and they're much stronger in player's hands than if used against player. Most enemies encounters are very simple and straight-forward.

 

For example Hasongo has some great encounters. The first one is 5 Naga Archers on high ground, backed by Caster. Way to them is blocked with barrels and 2-3 Naga Champions. It's easy to mess up and it requires special approach.

 

Why don't we have bounties with similar setups? It's really stupid - "Hey im notorious pirate and there are bounties on my head, so let's just sit in the middle of this field". Like really? Most of these should incorporate some kind of advantage for enemies. Why can't we have "Let's provoke these adventuring **** into attacking me so that my guys can flank them and my mages can drop some fireballs on them" or "Hello adventurers, as you might notice you're standing on pit full of gunpowder, here have this torch"

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Why don't we have bounties with similar setups? It's really stupid - "Hey im notorious pirate and there are bounties on my head, so let's just sit in the middle of this field". Like really? Most of these should incorporate some kind of advantage for enemies. Why can't we have "Let's provoke these adventuring **** into attacking me so that my guys can flank them and my mages can drop some fireballs on them" or "Hello adventurers, as you might notice you're standing on pit full of gunpowder, here have this torch"

You're a better designer than whatever Obs has at the moment. This is the kind of "balance" I can get behind. The way to make content more challenging. Encounter design!

 

No AI changes are needed for this, just some terrain changes, archers on the high ground, stuff like that.

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Why don't we have bounties with similar setups? It's really stupid - "Hey im notorious pirate and there are bounties on my head, so let's just sit in the middle of this field". Like really? Most of these should incorporate some kind of advantage for enemies. Why can't we have "Let's provoke these adventuring **** into attacking me so that my guys can flank them and my mages can drop some fireballs on them" or "Hello adventurers, as you might notice you're standing on pit full of gunpowder, here have this torch"

You're a better designer than whatever Obs has at the moment. This is the kind of "balance" I can get behind. The way to make content more challenging. Encounter design!

 

No AI changes are needed for this, just some terrain changes, archers on the high ground, stuff like that.

 

 

I'd love to see this, plus encounters where NPCs "break rules".

For example you're going trough dungeon and there's room full of Ratuai Marksmen. They have sky-high damage and they obliterate everything that moves, even tankiest of tanks, but they reload for a long time. One of the solutions could be bouncing spells off wall, the other would be summoning "cannon fodder" to eat their volley and then just rush in and break their necks...

Another example would be pit of Evil Eyes or Medusas who spam petrify. The key to beat them could be blinding yourself.

Why don't we have specialty enemies vulnerable only to one type of damage? For example some Lava Oozes that are invincible to everything but ice/water. You have to deal certain amount of damage to cool them down and then you have to shatter them with physical damage.

Swarms of weak-ish spiders with massive bonuses against flanked targets? Enemies applying debuffs that need to be cleared by moving around? Werewolves Shapeshifters who turn crazy if someone gets bloodied? Flying enemies with 200+ deflection against melee attacks?

Dungeons that allow only certain number of party members?

 

We definitely need to move from "number check" encounters to "puzzle-like" encounters.

Edited by Somnium_Meum
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If you make it too complicated, it can discourage players. I'd hate a situation where I have to fight enemies immune to anything other than ice/water when I don't have any way of dealing ice/water damage at the moment. Baldur's Gate solved it by smart item placement (for example, you find some non-magic weapons right before you have to fight Magic Golems who are immune to magic weapons).

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Why don't we have specialty enemies vulnerable only to one type of damage?

 

 

No Hard Counters policy.

 

If you make it too complicated, it can discourage players. I'd hate a situation where I have to fight enemies immune to anything other than ice/water when I don't have any way of dealing ice/water damage at the moment.

 

You'd remember that place and come back later when you have water/ice. You'll also be really happy when you find/learn something with that damage type.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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If you make it too complicated, it can discourage players. I'd hate a situation where I have to fight enemies immune to anything other than ice/water when I don't have any way of dealing ice/water damage at the moment.

Are we playing the same game? I have like 10 sources of Fire, Corrode/Acid and Water/Ice damage at level 10.

 

You have 5 characters at hand, it's extremely likely that one of them is Druid/Priest/Wizard. As for Wizards, there is Decay, Fire and Ice spell in every tier (as far as i know), and you're free to swap grimoires.

Then you have large amounts of scrolls, grenades and possibly unique items with various lashes. These can be used by pretty much everyone.

Furthermore raw damage is pretty accessible, Ninagaunth' spells are doing massive amounts of Raw damage, Cipher has tons of Raw damage. Most if not all bleeds are also doing Raw damage.

 

If anything, it would make players use underused spells.

 

 

PotD should require planning and preparing, it should be fine to require knowledge and preparation. Steamrolling everything with cookie cutter builds shouldn't be promoted.

Edited by Somnium_Meum
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Why don't we have specialty enemies vulnerable only to one type of damage?

 

No Hard Counters policy.

If you make it too complicated, it can discourage players. I'd hate a situation where I have to fight enemies immune to anything other than ice/water when I don't have any way of dealing ice/water damage at the moment.

You'd remember that place and come back later when you have water/ice. You'll also be really happy when you find/learn something with that damage type.

How would you get away? You're in a fight with an enemy you can't kill
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Why don't we have bounties with similar setups? It's really stupid - "Hey im notorious pirate and there are bounties on my head, so let's just sit in the middle of this field". Like really? Most of these should incorporate some kind of advantage for enemies. Why can't we have "Let's provoke these adventuring **** into attacking me so that my guys can flank them and my mages can drop some fireballs on them" or "Hello adventurers, as you might notice you're standing on pit full of gunpowder, here have this torch"

 

I'd love to see this, plus encounters where NPCs "break rules".

For example you're going trough dungeon and there's room full of Ratuai Marksmen. They have sky-high damage and they obliterate everything that moves, even tankiest of tanks, but they reload for a long time. One of the solutions could be bouncing spells off wall, the other would be summoning "cannon fodder" to eat their volley and then just rush in and break their necks...

Another example would be pit of Evil Eyes or Medusas who spam petrify. The key to beat them could be blinding yourself.

Why don't we have specialty enemies vulnerable only to one type of damage? For example some Lava Oozes that are invincible to everything but ice/water. You have to deal certain amount of damage to cool them down and then you have to shatter them with physical damage.

Swarms of weak-ish spiders with massive bonuses against flanked targets? Enemies applying debuffs that need to be cleared by moving around? Werewolves Shapeshifters who turn crazy if someone gets bloodied? Flying enemies with 200+ deflection against melee attacks?

Dungeons that allow only certain number of party members?

 

Interesting ideas. I really like the gunpowder one. :p

 

How would you get away? You're in a fight with an enemy you can't kill

 

A npc could warn the party before they go in there. Or a note in a dead body.

 

Also, make an autosave and unless somebody passes a survival check, the party goes right into the trap.

sign.jpg

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I could really get behind afflictions being subtractive rather than just having them removed!!  That sounds like a great mechanic.

 

I like the idea of enemies resistant to certain attacks (wait isn't it like this anyway??), but totally immune except to one type of damage - seems like too much - I could get behind having it limited two a handful, but only one seems like it makes it harder for little return - I mean I really hated BG2 and having to cast multiple remove magic spells in encounters in the expansions, it became the default for fights often - that being said if the game included this type of encounter in a limited form I think I could get behind it!!

 

More crafted encounters!!!  I mean I have said this before - bring back the Sandblights that wiped people out in the backer beta. That way we can talk about the game being too difficult.

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“How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?"

"With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...”

The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy

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The core issue is not that PotD is too easy, its that the new AR/Pen system combined with PoE's system of Accuracy versus defense and the new affliction versus inspiration systems just don't mesh well into a fun coherent system.

 

In PoE accuracy was king and hard CC ruled all. Solution was to not bring Vancian casters like Wizards, Priests and Druids. Not the best but doable and resulted in challenging fights throughout the game with a more attrition style of your regen + your damage output overcoming the enemy. Worked best if you also avoided rest spamming.

 

The new armor system needs more asymmetry to it. Why does Legendary Plate make you immune to nearly everything? Add in some additional armor from Berzerker or GoldPact and you can face tank the world. It also stops all spells because why not? 

 

The new affliction system also feels unrewarding. I spend four seconds getting a six second paralyze that gets me some bonus to possible critical damage? Should have just auto attacked and killed the guy instead.

 

New Vegas had a nice armor system where you had a damage threshold and a damage resistance percentage when you used the JSawyer mod. Was a nice elegant armor system.

 

Recently got Divinity Sin 2 DE and really like the dual armor system and the way it interacts with the CC abilities. Some enemies have high physical but low magical and vice versa, makes for choices and tactics in both target acquisition and character building.

 

Without a complete redesign of the core systems I don't see how you salvage the game. I got 200+hours in, had fun but just have no reason to go back through it again to experience the combat. 

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