Petition - Do we want to see the game made harder on POTD on the late levels? Please voice your concern here

[Verde]

To he fair, PoE1 was super clunky with it completely random difficulty spikes and screen-filled battles. I wouldn't so easily forget how unplayable that game was at times. User friendly it was not.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Verde

[DozingDragon]

All they need to do is improve the scaling range. The reason the game gets easy after about level 14+ is that the game only "upscales" any encounter a max of six levels and most of the game is level 8-10 or so base because it's open world and you could hit pretty much anything as early as 8th level. Improving the scaling range should solve a lot of these issues.

I thought only certain encounters were now scaling up by a max of six levels, and that most were still scaling up to four levels. If I am recalling that correctly, I can only speculate why that choice was made, but if I had to guess it was to ensure there were no level 20 xaurips.

 

Regardless, I am all for increasing the scaling of enemies across the board. While not exactly an apples to apples comparison, the highest level bounty in PoE, Brynlod, was level 21, which was five levels over the level cap.

[Teclis23]

Ive been reading alot of the modders notes. The problem is that Obsidian introduced a flat Accuracy, deflection, PEN and AR penalty for POTD. EG +20 to everything (only an example).

 

This has made the early levels quite hard but as you get to the higher levels you outpace these penalties. The penalties should scale with level they shouldn't be just a flat  penalty. They currently dont scale with level.  For example your enemies on POTD will have the excact same difficulty bonus to  there stats when you are level 1 and the same bonuses when you are level 20. This is just stupid

 

Also the level scaling i capped at six from memory. So if you are level 15 and come across a level 5 enemie he will be scaled up to level 11.  This needs to be raised.

 

So easy to fix and such a stupid thing to do with the flat penalties not having them scale with level.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Teclis23

[1TTFFSSE]

Level scaling is not the issue at high levels, enemy ai and what abilities and how they use them against you is. Brynlod and dragons in PoE1 were tough because of that not because they were level 28 while your party was 19.

I play with modded +6 enemy levels even at high levels and it makes no difference once your party is level14+ and has good abilities and synergy. We still rolf stomp the enemy.

 

For instance give enemies access to the same abilities and tactics players use against the enemies. For example an enemy rogue should shadow step/beyond->run to your caster/healer->crippling strike->finishing blow 

 

Same thing for enemy barbs and monks they should active abilities that make them temporarily untargetable/immune to cc and go pummel the players backline. Too often the enemy fighter tanks have the biggest defenses to stuff like prone/paralysis but you can generally ignore them because they do little damage compared to the enemy mages and rogues who can be cced.

 

Speaking of enemy mages, enough with the level 4 junk spells. Any serious mage would deleterious alacrity->deflection buffs->infuse vital essence->nuke with minolettas/meteors/wilting wind if you don't interrupt that stuff or knockdown the mage you die. 

[Teclis23]

Level scaling is not the issue at high levels, enemy ai and what abilities and how they use them against you is. Brynlod and dragons in PoE1 were tough because of that not because they were level 28 while your party was 19.

I play with modded +6 enemy levels even at high levels and it makes no difference once your party is level14+ and has good abilities and synergy. We still rolf stomp the enemy.

 

For instance give enemies access to the same abilities and tactics players use against the enemies. For example an enemy rogue should shadow step/beyond->run to your caster/healer->crippling strike->finishing blow 

 

Same thing for enemy barbs and monks they should active abilities that make them temporarily untargetable/immune to cc and go pummel the players backline. Too often the enemy fighter tanks have the biggest defenses to stuff like prone/paralysis but you can generally ignore them because they do little damage compared to the enemy mages and rogues who can be cced.

 

Speaking of enemy mages, enough with the level 4 junk spells. Any serious mage would deleterious alacrity->deflection buffs->infuse vital essence->nuke with minolettas/meteors/wilting wind if you don't interrupt that stuff or knockdown the mage you die. 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/158

 

try this mod it also alters pen and AR

 

it also adds extra level scaling over what deadly deadfire does

[Fardragon]

My suggestion: remove all difficulty settings from the game.

 

It's a story based game, combat encounters should support the story.

 

People who are looking for a challenge should play against human opponents.

[Teclis23]

My suggestion: remove all difficulty settings from the game.

 

It's a story based game, combat encounters should support the story.

 

People who are looking for a challenge should play against human opponents.

There is a Story mode just use it

 

They made it just for special little ones like you who like bedtime stories

[Fardragon]

 

My suggestion: remove all difficulty settings from the game.

 

It's a story based game, combat encounters should support the story.

 

People who are looking for a challenge should play against human opponents.

There is a Story mode just use it

 

They made it just for special little ones like you who like bedtime stories

 

 

That should be removed too.

 

It doesn't matter how difficult you make a single player game, it will always be easy to beat once you understand the mechanics involved.

[gkathellar]

They wouldn't even need to be that advanced, just have them cycle randomly through debuff player/buff allies/cast spells etc.

 

Making everything per-encounter is fine if the encounters themselves are harder. In the game as released that really isn't the case. There's no reason not to have enemies that are able to kill you quickly, especially when you get access to resurrection spells

 

You mean ... the problem is the existence of random mobs of enemies with no particular significance to the narrative or to gameplay in general, who won't be meaningfully challenging as a matter of course?

 

GOLLY

 

(I have been whining about this for an ungodly length of time. It is always nice to agree with someone.)

[Taevyr]

I would also like the game easier in one respect: traps. A trap field can easily kill party members and to my knowledge traps are only detectable by high per characters, so my Eder who specializes in mechanics is useless for spotting a tripwire right in front of him. I suggest giving a chance to avoid injury with defenses and allowing the mechanics skill as well as perception to check for traps.

 

You can also just scout ahead with a high per character. It takes some time, but it'd be silly to make traps avoidable/trivial as that'd beat the entire point of having unnoticed traps. Ideally you just combine a high per char with high mechanics.

 

I'm also not certain i'm comfortable with eder petting sensitive machinery like that.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Taevyr

[cokane]

My suggestion: remove all difficulty settings from the game.

 

It's a story based game, combat encounters should support the story.

 

People who are looking for a challenge should play against human opponents.

 

This isn't really true imo. There are strong story elements in Deadfire, and its predecessor. But the only part of the game that is/was a challenge is the combat. There is minimal challenge to the quests, companions, dungeon puzzles, etc. A story-based RPG would actually have a hard-to-solve main quest, as opposed to the simple go to zone x, y and z, and fight thru bosses a, b and c. Sure, there are moral/faction decisions that players may agonize over from a role-playing point of view, but there is no deep-level detective work in this game. Choosing your quest outcomes is not challenge. Deadfire very much depends on its combat for it to qualify as a game.

Edited August 16, 2018 by cokane

[Verde]

Unfortunately PoE is becoming less of a story RPG. The exception is the most recent DLC but clearly the focus this time around was VO (how odd) and combat, not the actual writing. If it was the focus, we would have dialogue such as "I.hate.boats." lmao.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I would also like the game easier in one respect: traps. A trap field can easily kill party members and to my knowledge traps are only detectable by high per characters, so my Eder who specializes in mechanics is useless for spotting a tripwire right in front of him. I suggest giving a chance to avoid injury with defenses and allowing the mechanics skill as well as perception to check for traps.

You can also just scout ahead with a high per character. It takes some time, but it'd be silly to make traps avoidable/trivial as that'd beat the entire point of having unnoticed traps. Ideally you just combine a high per char with high mechanics.

 

I'm also not certain i'm comfortable with eder petting sensitive machinery like that.

What happens when you don't have a high Per character, like if you pissed off Palengina and Maia? I'm not saying traps should be trivial, I just want mechanics like it was in PoE because it's annoying that my 20-something mechanics Eder can't notice some traps right in front of him and Aloth bites it walking across. All they would have to do to remedy this is allow Mechanics to influence detection as much as Perception.

[house2fly]

Be a high perception player character, or make one at an inn. You should have high perception anyway for the accuracy bonus

[baldurs_gate_2]

Level scaling is not the issue at high levels, enemy ai and what abilities and how they use them against you is. Brynlod and dragons in PoE1 were tough because of that not because they were level 28 while your party was 19.

I play with modded +6 enemy levels even at high levels and it makes no difference once your party is level14+ and has good abilities and synergy. We still rolf stomp the enemy.

 

For instance give enemies access to the same abilities and tactics players use against the enemies. For example an enemy rogue should shadow step/beyond->run to your caster/healer->crippling strike->finishing blow 

 

Same thing for enemy barbs and monks they should active abilities that make them temporarily untargetable/immune to cc and go pummel the players backline. Too often the enemy fighter tanks have the biggest defenses to stuff like prone/paralysis but you can generally ignore them because they do little damage compared to the enemy mages and rogues who can be cced.

 

Speaking of enemy mages, enough with the level 4 junk spells. Any serious mage would deleterious alacrity->deflection buffs->infuse vital essence->nuke with minolettas/meteors/wilting wind if you don't interrupt that stuff or knockdown the mage you die. 

Maybe, they don't scale up, because there is a option to play solo? Maybe the game is too easy for party play, but difficult enough for solo upscaled.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Level scaling is not the issue at high levels, enemy ai and what abilities and how they use them against you is. Brynlod and dragons in PoE1 were tough because of that not because they were level 28 while your party was 19.

I play with modded +6 enemy levels even at high levels and it makes no difference once your party is level14+ and has good abilities and synergy. We still rolf stomp the enemy.

 

For instance give enemies access to the same abilities and tactics players use against the enemies. For example an enemy rogue should shadow step/beyond->run to your caster/healer->crippling strike->finishing blow 

 

Same thing for enemy barbs and monks they should active abilities that make them temporarily untargetable/immune to cc and go pummel the players backline. Too often the enemy fighter tanks have the biggest defenses to stuff like prone/paralysis but you can generally ignore them because they do little damage compared to the enemy mages and rogues who can be cced.

 

Speaking of enemy mages, enough with the level 4 junk spells. Any serious mage would deleterious alacrity->deflection buffs->infuse vital essence->nuke with minolettas/meteors/wilting wind if you don't interrupt that stuff or knockdown the mage you die. 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/158

 

try this mod it also alters pen and AR

 

it also adds extra level scaling over what deadly deadfire does

 

 

How is this mod, does it feel more versatile than Deadly Deadfire? 

 

Also, they did introduce new enemies with the last POTD balance, so that definitely seems a possibility!!

Edited August 16, 2018 by aaronghowell

[Teclis23]

If you go onto the Mod on the nexus website and reads his notes under the DOC tab he explains it really well what he has done and he also explains the mistakes Obsidian have made with there level scaling and POTD enemie bonuses. He goes on to say that the extra stats enemies get dont scale with power level, they are just a flat bonus. This is why the game is so hard at the beginning but becomes much easier towards the end. eg. +20 deflection at the beginning of the game will have far bigger an impact then at the end of the game. This is all OBS have done for POTD, introduce flat enemie bonuses that dont scale.

[Karkarov]

Long story short, will the 10% or less who actually play POTD say yes to this?  Yes.

Will the other 90% of players care?  No.

There is a very real line of diminishing returns when it comes to balancing "challenge modes" in single player story driven RPG's.

[Teclis23]

10% of the player base is still alot and i think your numbers are conservative i reckon more like 10% to 20%

[asnjas]

People that complain about difficulty are the loud few. If you read these forums often you might think this was a big deal. People don't post to mention things are fine.

[house2fly]

0.7% finished PoE1 on POTD, compared to 12% who beat the game full stop, meaning 6% of people who beat the game did it on POTD. How many stalled out halfway through the game? The expansion? Died at the end boss and didn't bother retrying? No info there, but I don't know why the percentage of POTD players who do that would be higher than the number of Easy-Medium-Hard players

[gkathellar]

0.7% finished PoE1 on POTD, compared to 12% who beat the game full stop, meaning 6% of people who beat the game did it on POTD. How many stalled out halfway through the game? The expansion? Died at the end boss and didn't bother retrying? No info there, but I don't know why the percentage of POTD players who do that would be higher than the number of Easy-Medium-Hard players

 

Numbers!

 

Long story short, will the 10% or less who actually play POTD say yes to this?  Yes.

 

Will the other 90% of players care?  No.

 

There is a very real line of diminishing returns when it comes to balancing "challenge modes" in single player story driven RPG's.

 

Oh, I dunno. I play on PotD and I don't say yes.

 

Unless, "yes," consists of, "significant enemy AI optimizations." But hell if I want more numerical cheating. Give me puzzles, not walls to bang my head into!

[hilfazer]

This is why the game is so hard at the beginning but becomes much easier towards the end. eg. +20 deflection at the beginning of the game will have far bigger an impact then at the end of the game. This is all OBS have done for POTD, introduce flat enemie bonuses that dont scale.

 

Please explain that. Deflection (as well as other defenses, accuracy, armor and PEN*) work on difference, not ratio so they are equally valuable regardless of how big the value was before it was raised.

 

If on level one i have 50% THC vs lvl1 enemy and same chance when i'm 20 vs 20 lvl enemy on PotD i'm gonna have 30% THC (using your example of +20 defl). Vs both high and low level enemy.

 

Story is different for damage and HP. +5 dmg and +10 HP may be huge early game but will be minor later.

 

* except PEN from crit and overpen as they work on ratio. It means penetrating via crit gets progressively easier as values go up and overpenning gets progressively harder. For both sides, of course.

[Teclis23]

On POTD they added flat bonuses to enemies that dont scale with level. The enemies will of course level up but the POTD bonus stats they get dont scale they are a flat bonus.

 

Go on nexus website and read the notes on the three mods on there that adjust difficulty:

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/158?tab=description

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/158?tab=docs

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/83

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/43

Edited August 18, 2018 by Teclis23

[ArnoldRimmer]

potd is already hard enough. fix bugs instead