So, how does Assassin work?

[baldurs_gate_2]

Bonus: Gain Assassinate passive. From Stealth, attacks receive +4 Penetration, +25 Accuracy and +50% Critical Hit Damage.

 

Sneak Attack: +30% Damage with weapons against Flanked, Body Affliction, Mind Affliction

Uses the rogue's ability to approach unseen, adding additional bonus damage to their weapon attacks when the target is Flanked, affected by any Affliction, or within the first two seconds of combat starting.

 

Ok, so, a attack from stealth, is not the same as a sneak attack? So you don't get the Assassinate passive, when the enemy is flanked / body or mind afflicted, only once when you attack from stealth out of combat or with smoke cloud etc.?

[Clerith]

Start the fight with one of your party members casting an aoe cc that activates your rogue's sneak attack. Said rogue should be in stealth at the edge of enemy detection. Once the cc hits, open with the rogue. Or if you use an Arquebus, skip the cc and just open with the rogue due to bullet reload mechanics. Then yeah, use rogue abilities to go invis, which activates your from stealth passive again.

 

"From stealth" and sneak attack are indeed two wholly different things.

[eschu101]

Ops. Wrong thread. Sry.

Edited August 2, 2018 by eschu101

[Purudaya]

You only get the assassinate passive when attack from stealth. Sneak attack is not set at +30% (it will increase with power level, up to +70% on a single class rogue) and activates any time you attack an enemy suffering from any affliction. As Clerith said, you can either have another character apply these with an AoE ability/spell or you can apply them on a single-target basis with your rogue (crippling strike, blinding strike, etc). Once you gain access to the "Persistent Distraction" ability, you will automatically apply afflictions to any enemy you are engaged with, removing the need to "set up" sneak attacks through spells/abilities.

 

If you want to make as much use of assassinate as possible, you'll want to focus your character around stealth abilities. I'd recommend the Devil of Caroc breastplate and the new assassin's boots from the free Deck of Many things DLC, which (combined) will give you an additional 2 uses of smoke veil per fight.

[Boeroer]

Assassinate works from stealth and invisibility (which are two different things). Same as Backstab. So Backstab and Assassinate are more related to each other than to Sneak Attack.

Assassinate has no range delemiter like Backstab has though. Assassinate, Backstab and Sneak Attack (and Deathblows) do stack! Combine with a powerful multiplicative bonus like Flames of Devotion and you will one-shot most things from stealth or invisibility.   

 

There are now some new assassin's boots in the game (since today) that make you invisible after a kill (1/encounter).  They don't give you additonal Smoke Veils. Maybe that got changed from beta to release?

Edited August 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[Purudaya]

Assassinate works from stealth and invisibility (which are two different things). Same as Backstab. So Backstab and Assassinate are more related to each other than to Sneak Attack.

Assassinate has no range delemiter like Backstab has though. Assassinate, Backstab and Sneak Attack (and Deathblows) do stack! Combine with a powerful multiplicative bonus like Flames of Devotion and you will one-shot most things from stealth or invisibility.   

 

There are now some new assassin's boots in the game (since today) that make you invisible after a kill (1/encounter).  They don't give you additonal Smoke Veils. Maybe that got changed from beta to release?

 

That's correct - they don't give you an at-will smoke veil, but the effect once triggered is essentially the same.  You just have to kill someone first

[Taal]

The new boots are nice, but they are more like Vanishing Strike as Smoke Veil: you can strike twice from stealth (or more with good Recovery and high Intellect) and get Assassinate on both full attacks with DW.

[thundercleese]

Wael's Eye has an invisibility on crit proc, good for a DW range Assassin. Would want to skip backstab though obv.

[Boeroer]

Assassin-Scout with the new boots, Scepter+Rust's Stiletto and Evasive Roll:

 

Sneak in, do backstab with a great sword + modal + accurate wounding shot, turn invisible after the first kill, repeat, evasive roll away, fire away with scepter with Accurate Wounding Shot + Driving Flight to trigger invisibility, Evasive Roll to target, backstab with great sword. In times of need and no guile left use Rust's and trigger Shadowing Beyond. Or instead of Great Sword use Arquebus at point blank. That's better anyway because of the skipped recovery - and Driving Flight gets used. 

 

Sound like lots of micro but also fun.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Boeroer

[baldurs_gate_2]

Assassin-Scout with the new boots, Scepter+Rust's Stiletto and Evasive Roll:

 

Sneak in, do backstab with a great sword + modal + accurate wounding shot, turn invisible after the first kill, repeat, evasive roll away, fire away with scepter with Accurate Wounding Shot + Driving Flight to trigger invisibility, Evasive Roll to target, backstab with great sword. In times of need and no guile left use Rust's and trigger Shadowing Beyond. Or instead of Great Sword use Arquebus at point blank. That's better anyway because of the skipped recovery - and Driving Flight gets used. 

 

Sound like lots of micro but also fun.

Let's say you are invisible, and use like crippling stike (full attack). Do both hits count as assassin passive or only the first hit with a dual weapon?

[Boeroer]

Assassinate and Backstab both only count for the first hit. So using a high damage two hander (which usually have the highest dmg per hit) is the best option. I think arquebus is one of the best options there is (because the modal can make sure you really crit - it gives you +20 ACC). 

 

With Assassinate however also AoE spells that roll all attacks at once (Fireball for example - so no jumping stuff) wil profit from +PEN, +ACC and +crit damage if you cast from stealth or invisibility. It's pretty powerful - especially if you combine it with Empower.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Boeroer

[hilfazer]

 I think arquebus is one of the best options there is

 

B-but... assassins should be using silent weapons so they can evac easier after killing their target!

[Haplok]

Assassinate and Backstab both only count for the first hit. So using a high damage two hander (which usually have the highest dmg per hit) is the best option. I think arquebus is one of the best options there is (because the modal can make sure you really crit - it gives you +20 ACC). 

 

I really like this concept... for a single character game. Or for solo play, if one has such inclinations (I don't).

I don't think the class works very well in a party setting though.

 

For party play I guess the second option is much better: occasional assassinate bonus for some ranged aoe spells.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

 

I think arquebus is one of the best options there is

 

B-but... assassins should be using silent weapons so they can evac easier after killing their target!

 

If Obsidian had implemented Assassinate and Backstab in a proper way then yes. As it is a dagger or stiletto is one of the worst options. Even though we have a dedicated "out-of-stealth" dagger (which adds a puny yet endless DoT if you attack from stealth - maybe good for solo but nothing else).

Edited August 3, 2018 by Boeroer

[thundercleese]

Assassin-Scout with the new boots, Scepter+Rust's Stiletto and Evasive Roll:

 

Sneak in, do backstab with a great sword + modal + accurate wounding shot, turn invisible after the first kill, repeat, evasive roll away, fire away with scepter with Accurate Wounding Shot + Driving Flight to trigger invisibility, Evasive Roll to target, backstab with great sword. In times of need and no guile left use Rust's and trigger Shadowing Beyond. Or instead of Great Sword use Arquebus at point blank. That's better anyway because of the skipped recovery - and Driving Flight gets used. 

 

Sound like lots of micro but also fun.

Wait, are you saying the Shadowing Beyond from Rust's is a proc? Or just to use it for one additional stealth when you've burnt through the rest of your resources?

[mant2si]

Assassinate and Backstab both only count for the first hit. So using a high damage two hander (which usually have the highest dmg per hit) is the best option. I think arquebus is one of the best options there is (because the modal can make sure you really crit - it gives you +20 ACC). 

 

With Assassinate however also AoE spells that roll all attacks at once (Fireball for example - so no jumping stuff) wil profit from +PEN, +ACC and +crit damage if you cast from stealth or invisibility. It's pretty powerful - especially if you combine it with Empower.

 

 

What will happen if I will cast Storm of Holy Fire / Chill Fog and then return to invise ? What will happen if I will do a projectile attack and then return to invsie  ? Did each projectile / spell tick will receive assassinate bonus or will be enough to cast this spell from invise ?

 

+20 ACC and +4 Pen will make any tick spell pretty OP. While I didn't found any good solo druid build for DD mod yet, Assassin/(Shifter or Animist) with new animancer bow/Two hand sword (that heal on kill) can has good chance to win enemies like Ukaizo free summons and +20 ACC to Poisons with Morning Star modal will give you good chance to apply spells/poisons even with 170 Fortitude targets

 

Did poisons receive accuracy bonus ?  

Edited August 3, 2018 by mant2si

[thundercleese]

 

Assassinate and Backstab both only count for the first hit. So using a high damage two hander (which usually have the highest dmg per hit) is the best option. I think arquebus is one of the best options there is (because the modal can make sure you really crit - it gives you +20 ACC). 

 

With Assassinate however also AoE spells that roll all attacks at once (Fireball for example - so no jumping stuff) wil profit from +PEN, +ACC and +crit damage if you cast from stealth or invisibility. It's pretty powerful - especially if you combine it with Empower.

 

 

What will happen if I will cast Storm of Holy Fire / Chill Fog and then return to invise ? What will happen if I will do a projectile attack and then return to invsie  ? Did each projectile / spell tick will receive assassinate bonus or will be enough to cast this spell from invise ?

 

+20 ACC and +4 Pen will make any tick spell pretty OP. While I didn't found any good solo druid build for DD mod yet, Assassin/(Shifter or Animist) with new animancer bow/Two hand sword (that heal on kill) can has good chance to win enemies like Ukaizo free summons and +20 ACC to Poisons with Morning Star modal will give you good chance to apply spells/poisons even with 170 Fortitude targets

 

Did poisons receive accuracy bonus ?  

 

Haven't actually tested it myself, but multi hit weapons (Frostseeker, Blunderbuss, etc.) only get the bonus on the first projectile to land, so presumably it's the same.

 

A spell that applies a DoT to the target as opposed to the ground may very well get the full benefit for its duration though (some druid spells come to mind, though the names escape me).

Edited August 3, 2018 by thundercleese

[mant2si]

Haven't actually tested it myself, but multi hit weapons (Frostseeker, Blunderbuss, etc.) only get the bonus on the first projectile to land, so presumably it's the same.

 

I know that, but I asked - what will happen if I will return to invise before first projectile hit target ? Does all projectile receive bonus ? Does you leave from Invise ? Does only single projectile will receive bonus ? 

 

Same question for per tick spells  how they interact with Assassin that currently stay in invise ? 

Edited August 3, 2018 by mant2si

[thundercleese]

Right, sorry I only skim read your post. Might test it later tonight if I get the time, it's a good question.

[Boeroer]

I meant to use Rust's Shadowing Beyond when you've used up you Guile. It doesn't proc, it gives you a cast.

[thundercleese]

Okay cool, figured as much.

 

@mant2si: Just did a very quick test with Chill Fog and Bitter Mooring; it does reapply when you go invisible, however the next damage tick makes you visible again.

[Vaneglorious]

Is it me or is using the classic dag/stiletto Assassin a bad idea stat-wise? Kinda goes against logic, sadly.

 

I wanted to run a run-of-the-mill classic 'sin with Rust's Poignard and that dagger sold in Neketaka, both apply a dot. Combined with poisons that could be a lot of dots.

 

Also, does The Red Hand's double attack both trigger the passive from stealth?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Vaneglorious

[Haplok]

Nope, Red Hand has 2 separate attacks (actually, as Boroer explained, it nullifies Reload for every second attack). Only the first one will be affected by Assasinate and/or Backstab bonuses.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

Maybe with Three Bells Through all hits in the line of fire could be assassinations? I didn't test - but it kind of works like an AoE attack, so maybe.

[thundercleese]

Maybe with Three Bells Through all hits in the line of fire could be assassinations? I didn't test - but it kind of works like an AoE attack, so maybe.

If the damage is dealt simultaneously then I don't see why it wouldn't. It's a single projectile unlike Frosty and BB's, and the issue seems to be more that as soon as you deal damage your stealth/invis is cancelled as opposed to anything else.