Building a Barbarian. To Multiclass or Not?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

So, I'm wanting to make a Barbarian for my pro-Principi character because I really like the idea of a Victarion Greyjoy type warrior leaping from boat to boat, frenzied and leaving swathes of destruction in his wake. I had originally planned to go with a Soulblade multiclass, or possibly a Streetfighter multiclass, for this character. Soulblade would give me an extra DPS ability in Soul Annihilation and some good self-buffs/enemy debuffs, while Streetfighter would synergize well with Barbarian's "On bloodied" effects and offer options for more afflictions. However, I've also considered whether Barbarian might be better served being played as a no-subclass character, because of some of the abilities that open up at PL 8 and 9. Heart of Fury, Dragon Leap/Panther Leap, and Blood Surge all seem like really good abilities. I'd like to get some feedback here. I've gone ahead and listed what I think the pros of each are. 

 

Witch (Berserker/Soulblade)

 

Pros - Cipher unique dialogue choices, Soul Annihilation for extra Raw damage, Borrowed Instinct (Extra Accuracy), Extra damage from Soul Whip. 

Cons - Long recovery from Cipher spells (Though mitigated with Frenzy and Blood Thirst)

 

Marauder (Berserker/Streetfighter)

 

Pros - Absurdly high damage bonuses on Sneak Attack vulnerable targets while Bloodied (So I can actually drop Might to pump up Con/Resolve), Further -50% Recovery reduction while Bloodied or Flanked. Extra Afflictions, and attacks that target Reflex as well as Fortitude. 

 

Cons - 20% extra Recovery when not Flanked or Bloodied. 

 

Barbarian (Berserker) 

 

Pros - Heart of Fury (AoE Full Attacks) and Blood Surge (Chance for extra Rage on kill), and extra Power Levels much quicker. 

 

Cons - No extra damage boosts besides what the Barbarian itself gets. 

[Dorftek]

IMO the biggest pro of going single class barb is neither HoF or blood surge but Barbaric Retallation. It's brutal! keep deflection low with high armor and healers supporting him and just send him into the masses and watch him destroy evertything. Stack gear on him that has a chance to hurt them when they crit him. 

 

Grab vengeful defeat, equip Effigy's Husk and Ragged Cloak or Cloak of Seven Bolts, this is going to severly hurt the enemies if they knock him out.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Dorftek

[uuuhhii]

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

just make barbarian better at slaughtering minions

but multi barbarian give good support for all melee build

and rogue plus barbarian suit pirate rp

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

just make barbarian better at slaughtering minions

but multi barbarian give good support for all melee build

and rogue plus barbarian suit pirate rp

 

That is true. 

[M4xw0lf]

Out of the three options, pure Barbarian is the least squishy, so probably best for running from fight to fight with reckless abandon. The other two will always need healbots nearby or go hit and run.

[Vitalis]

I vote Warlock, mostly because Infuse with Vital Essence counters the downside of Berserker. I'm currently working on a build now for it, but I doubt I'll ever post it.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I vote Warlock, mostly because Infuse with Vital Essence counters the downside of Berserker. I'm currently working on a build now for it, but I doubt I'll ever post it.

 

Warlock could be really cool too... Hmm. Could pick up Llengrath's Martial Masteries for all of the really good defensive buff spells. 

[Wolken3156]

I vote Warlock, mostly because Infuse with Vital Essence counters the downside of Berserker. I'm currently working on a build now for it, but I doubt I'll ever post it.

Tactical Barrage from Fighter also works. Also gives Constant Recovery to offset the Raw damage you'll be taking in Frenzy as well some amazing passives, like Armored Grace and Confident Aim.

[Boeroer]

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

That is the most inapplicable statement I read in this forum for a long time.

 

For example: against single targets Barbaric Retaliation is great. Againt mobs Heart of Fury is great. Instrument of Boundless Rage is powerful and adds a nice ranged alternative... and so on.

 

 

A single class Barbarian will reach very powerful abilities a lot earlier than a multiclass one. E.g. Blood Thirst.

He will also deal more damage with his Barbaric Blow because he will have a higher Power Level which adds base damage to its attack. Combined with MIG, Superb or even Legendary, Obe Stands Alone, maybe Blooded the difference is noticable.

 

I personally find multiclass Barbs more interesting (I'm also playing a Warlock atm and it's great), but a single class one surely is powerful because of his great high level abilites, his faster progression and his higher PL.

 

On the othr hand an advantage of a multiclass (besides the obvious reasons like synbergy effects) like Barb/Fighter, -/Rogue, -/Paladin, -/Monk or -/Ranger is that they can get +4 resource points from the Devil of Caroc Breastplate (Fighters even +2 additional from bracers) and +2 attribute points and skill points from the Chamaeleon Ring - while a single class Barb "only" gets +2/+1. If you don't plan to use those items it doesn't matter at all of course.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Boeroer

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

That is the most inapplicable statement I read in this forum for a long time.

 

For example: against single targets Barbaric Retaliation is great. Againt mobs Heart of Fury is great. Instrument of Boundless Rage is powerful and adds a nice ranged alternative... and so on.

 

 

A single class Barbarian will reach very powerful abilities a lot earlier than a multiclass one. E.g. Blood Thirst.

He will also deal more damage with his Barbaric Blow because he will have a higher Power Level which adds base damage to its attack. Combined with MIG, Superb or even Legendary, Obe Stands Alone, maybe Blooded the difference is noticable.

 

I personally find multiclass Barbs more interesting (I'm also playing a Warlock atm and it's great), but a single class one surely is powerful because of his great high level abilites, his faster progression and his higher PL.

 

On the othr hand an advantage of a multiclass (besides the obvious reasons like synbergy effects) like Barb/Fighter, -/Rogue, -/Paladin, -/Monk or -/Ranger is that they can get +4 resource points from the Devil of Caroc Breastplate (Fighters even +2 additional from bracers) and +2 attribute points and skill points from the Chamaeleon Ring - while a single class Barb "only" gets +2/+1. If you don't plan to use those items it doesn't matter at all of course.

 

 

See, that's the problem - it's like with my ranged Cipher character, there's so many good choices that I could make, it's hard to pick one. I've narrowed it down somewhat though...

 

1. Barbarian (Pure): No multi, for higher PL and earlier access to really good abilities. Less powerful, but I get stuff like Heart of Fury and Instrument of Boundless Rage (Which just has a really fun name, honestly). Plus loads more hit points.

 

2. Brute (Barbarian/Fighter): Lots of really good passive abilities, and some excellent active abilities as well (Tactical Barrage to remove Confusion, Unbending, etc). 

 

3. Marauder (Barbarian/Rogue): Crazy fast, lots of bonus damage from the Streetfighter.

 

4. Warlock: Lots of really good defensive spells, and some excellent offensive buffs too (Like Merciless Gaze). 

 

How fun are things like Heart of Rage and Instrument of Boundless Rage to use? Also, how significant is the Barbaric Blow/Smash bonus damage per PL? That will at least allow me to disqualify pure Barbarian. As it stands, I'm leaning toward Marauder, followed by Brute, followed by Warlock. 

[M4xw0lf]

No matter which Barb combo you pick, having Barbaric Smash and Bloodthirst and setting the AI to use barbaric smash on <25% health targets will lead to glorious on screen massacre.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

No matter which Barb combo you pick, having Barbaric Smash and Bloodthirst and setting the AI to use barbaric smash on <25% health targets will lead to glorious on screen massacre.

 

Oh, I figure. Though I do like actually playing the game and not letting the AI do everything. 

[M4xw0lf]

 

No matter which Barb combo you pick, having Barbaric Smash and Bloodthirst and setting the AI to use barbaric smash on <25% health targets will lead to glorious on screen massacre.

 

Oh, I figure. Though I do like actually playing the game and not letting the AI do everything. 

 

True, but chaining the commands for the encounter-ending Barbaric Smash killing streak would be extremely tedious.

But when I think about it, I had the AI customized so far that I could let it play out most encounters. It's just too good at self buffing, especially for a Brute - you can set the AI to cast Tactical Barrage-> Refreshing Defense -> Frenzy (+Upgrades) to get unconfused berserker frenzy and won't even see the symbol for refreshing defense displayed, because the first two are instant casts.

To do this manually every 30 seconds would be freakingly annoying.

Edited July 29, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

No matter which Barb combo you pick, having Barbaric Smash and Bloodthirst and setting the AI to use barbaric smash on <25% health targets will lead to glorious on screen massacre.

 

Oh, I figure. Though I do like actually playing the game and not letting the AI do everything. 

 

True, but chaining the commands for the encounter-ending Barbaric Smash killing streak would be extremely tedious.

But when I think about it, I had the AI customized so far that I could let it play out most encounters. It's just too good at self buffing, especially for a Brute - you can set the AI to cast Tactical Barrage-> Refreshing Defense -> Frenzy (+Upgrades) to get unconfused berserker frenzy and won't even see the symbol for refreshing defense displayed, because the first two are instant casts.

To do this manually every 30 seconds would be freakingly annoying.

 

 

Hmm, I suppose. Though I'm still trying to decide WHICH Barbarian I want to play. 

[Boeroer]

Heart of Fury is awesome. Being able to use it makes playing a single class Barb worthwhile. It also works with ranged weapons, even reloading ones (Fire in the Hole + Hand Mortar is pretty hilarious with HoF).

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Heart of Fury is awesome. Being able to use it makes playing a single class Barb worthwhile. It also works with ranged weapons, even reloading ones (Fire in the Hole + Hand Mortar is pretty hilarious with HoF).

 

Hmm. Alright. Final question.

 

Would you say HoF is worth taking over a Marauder's absurd Recovery time and Sneak Attack damage and extra Afflictions? 

[mant2si]

 

Heart of Fury is awesome. Being able to use it makes playing a single class Barb worthwhile. It also works with ranged weapons, even reloading ones (Fire in the Hole + Hand Mortar is pretty hilarious with HoF).

 

Hmm. Alright. Final question.

 

Would you say HoF is worth taking over a Marauder's absurd Recovery time and Sneak Attack damage and extra Afflictions? 

 

Depend on enemies amount :D If there 7 enemies around you, then  2 HoF will cause 14 full attack, equip nemnok cloak, follow with potion of last stand and wait until retaliation end battle in few seconds

 

Equip 2 sabers 1 with +2 acc on hit and second +2% freez lash, every HoF will increase your average DM output at least 20%

 

If there only 2 enemies then street-fighter will be better

Edited July 29, 2018 by mant2si

[Verde]

 

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

That is the most inapplicable statement I read in this forum for a long time.

 

For example: against single targets Barbaric Retaliation is great. Againt mobs Heart of Fury is great. Instrument of Boundless Rage is powerful and adds a nice ranged alternative... and so on.

 

 

A single class Barbarian will reach very powerful abilities a lot earlier than a multiclass one. E.g. Blood Thirst.

He will also deal more damage with his Barbaric Blow because he will have a higher Power Level which adds base damage to its attack. Combined with MIG, Superb or even Legendary, Obe Stands Alone, maybe Blooded the difference is noticable.

 

I personally find multiclass Barbs more interesting (I'm also playing a Warlock atm and it's great), but a single class one surely is powerful because of his great high level abilites, his faster progression and his higher PL.

 

On the othr hand an advantage of a multiclass (besides the obvious reasons like synbergy effects) like Barb/Fighter, -/Rogue, -/Paladin, -/Monk or -/Ranger is that they can get +4 resource points from the Devil of Caroc Breastplate (Fighters even +2 additional from bracers) and +2 attribute points and skill points from the Chamaeleon Ring - while a single class Barb "only" gets +2/+1. If you don't plan to use those items it doesn't matter at all of course.

You didn't even mention one of the top reasons to go single Barb - Retaliation

[1TTFFSSE]

 

 

barbarian level 8 and 9 skill are not very interesting

That is the most inapplicable statement I read in this forum for a long time.

 

For example: against single targets Barbaric Retaliation is great. Againt mobs Heart of Fury is great. Instrument of Boundless Rage is powerful and adds a nice ranged alternative... and so on.

 

 

A single class Barbarian will reach very powerful abilities a lot earlier than a multiclass one. E.g. Blood Thirst.

He will also deal more damage with his Barbaric Blow because he will have a higher Power Level which adds base damage to its attack. Combined with MIG, Superb or even Legendary, Obe Stands Alone, maybe Blooded the difference is noticable.

 

I personally find multiclass Barbs more interesting (I'm also playing a Warlock atm and it's great), but a single class one surely is powerful because of his great high level abilites, his faster progression and his higher PL.

 

On the othr hand an advantage of a multiclass (besides the obvious reasons like synbergy effects) like Barb/Fighter, -/Rogue, -/Paladin, -/Monk or -/Ranger is that they can get +4 resource points from the Devil of Caroc Breastplate (Fighters even +2 additional from bracers) and +2 attribute points and skill points from the Chamaeleon Ring - while a single class Barb "only" gets +2/+1. If you don't plan to use those items it doesn't matter at all of course.

 

 

See, that's the problem - it's like with my ranged Cipher character, there's so many good choices that I could make, it's hard to pick one. I've narrowed it down somewhat though...

 

1. Barbarian (Pure): No multi, for higher PL and earlier access to really good abilities. Less powerful, but I get stuff like Heart of Fury and Instrument of Boundless Rage (Which just has a really fun name, honestly). Plus loads more hit points.

 

2. Brute (Barbarian/Fighter): Lots of really good passive abilities, and some excellent active abilities as well (Tactical Barrage to remove Confusion, Unbending, etc). 

 

3. Marauder (Barbarian/Rogue): Crazy fast, lots of bonus damage from the Streetfighter.

 

4. Warlock: Lots of really good defensive spells, and some excellent offensive buffs too (Like Merciless Gaze). 

 

How fun are things like Heart of Rage and Instrument of Boundless Rage to use? Also, how significant is the Barbaric Blow/Smash bonus damage per PL? That will at least allow me to disqualify pure Barbarian. As it stands, I'm leaning toward Marauder, followed by Brute, followed by Warlock. 

 

this pretty much sums it up.

 

I am playing on deadly deadfire hardcore (when I use a full party) for extra enemy health and defenses. Currently I am running my main toon as a mindstalker streetfighter ascendant with kitchen stove+scordeo's. that isa build that does very good dps as long as I am controlling the toon for the right timing of debuffs and damge abilities.

 

now a second damage dealer I made into Priest (Woedica) + Berserker. And Ydwin I customized to be a Warlock at first for comparison. I also tweak the stats of companions slightly to match their roles so as dump unnecessary resolve and con on damage dealers and pump might, dex, and perception and int a bit higher. 

 

The Priest/Berserker with unamered fist talent is holding up decently although the rogue classes have do more damage and I expect that to be the case until storm of holy fire. But he seems strong enough as a damage dealer. 

 

Now getting to the main point of this post relevant to this thread: the warlock was lagging a bit behind the mindstalker and the zerker/priest. I think that has to do with having to buff up at the start of the fight (clunky and slow) and a lack of full attack abilities beyond barbaric blow. Maybe at later levels it would be great but I feel I would need to get to level 14/15 for it to be a dps monster and by that time the mindstalker would get amp wave and the priest/zerker would get holy fire+other goodies. 

 

Long story short I respecced Ydwin to a build I use as reference - that is marauder streetfighter/zerker, which is pretty much a consistent dps machine. At level 11/12 currently depending on fight the marauder is basically even in dps output as my mindstalker but mainly on ai control where as I control the mindstalker - so the ai can handle marauder really well unlike say a warlock or a mindstalker. 

 

You basically give the marauder two good weapons (like Gravecalling+Rust's dagger) or even better Magran's Favor+Rusts, Devil of C, set rogue and zerker ai to aggressive and it takes care of itself and will be doing top damage. 

 

Marauder is pure melee - basically a faster more brutal rogue. 

Warlock and Mindstalker I think are spellcasters that use martial abilities to set up more efficient spellcasting, either through streetfighter recovery and full attacks to generate focus quick or through frenzy. 

[eschu101]

I just started a Warlock for my second potd run (not solo). I tried a Witch but quickly discarded it...i realized it would end up as a squishy right clicker with no use for its spells.

it helps that wizard is my favorite class and i loved it in my first run, and the mix barb looks promising. i wanted a class with constant aoe dps, versatile and some good survival. i just dont like the slower progression for multiclassing.

massive action speed with maxed AS stats, frenzy and DAOM, combining that with combusting wounds and ninagauths mooring will give some interesting dps...

lengraths reflection provides good reflex and convertion to grazes, mirrored image helps to negate frenzy def debuff, spirit shield some good armor. im considering running 1h+shield (narians ward has a lot of sinergy) with passive (+def/+ref) if i feel too squishy.

i think this is strong enough even for a solo run. if i like it enough i may try it in my next run.

Edited July 30, 2018 by eschu101

[Dorftek]

I just started a Warlock for my second potd run (not solo). I tried a Witch but quickly discarded it...i realized it would end up as a squishy right clicker with no use for its spells.

 

it helps that wizard is my favorite class and i loved it in my first run, and the mix barb looks promising. i wanted a class with constant aoe dps, versatile and some good survival. i just dont like the slower progression for multiclassing.

 

massive action speed with maxed AS stats, frenzy and DAOM, combining that with combusting wounds and ninagauths mooring will give some interesting dps...

 

lengraths reflection provides good reflex and convertion to grazes, mirrored image helps to negate frenzy def debuff, spirit shield some good armor. im considering running 1h+shield (narians ward has a lot of sinergy) with passive (+def/+ref) if i feel too squishy.

 

i think this is strong enough even for a solo run. if i like it enough i may try it in my next run.

Yeah combustion wounds with a wall spell and the beams just melt enemies, personally I am a big fan of the raw dmg beam.

 

There's a point where stacking AS becomes very underwhelming or however you put it. U could consider skipping DAOM for a different spell and use Squids Grasp in main hand for immunity to flanking and +20% AS when facing more then 2 enemies.

[eschu101]

 

I just started a Warlock for my second potd run (not solo). I tried a Witch but quickly discarded it...i realized it would end up as a squishy right clicker with no use for its spells.

 

it helps that wizard is my favorite class and i loved it in my first run, and the mix barb looks promising. i wanted a class with constant aoe dps, versatile and some good survival. i just dont like the slower progression for multiclassing.

 

massive action speed with maxed AS stats, frenzy and DAOM, combining that with combusting wounds and ninagauths mooring will give some interesting dps...

 

lengraths reflection provides good reflex and convertion to grazes, mirrored image helps to negate frenzy def debuff, spirit shield some good armor. im considering running 1h+shield (narians ward has a lot of sinergy) with passive (+def/+ref) if i feel too squishy.

 

i think this is strong enough even for a solo run. if i like it enough i may try it in my next run.

Yeah combustion wounds with a wall spell and the beams just melt enemies, personally I am a big fan of the raw dmg beam.

 

There's a point where stacking AS becomes very underwhelming or however you put it. U could consider skipping DAOM for a different spell and use Squids Grasp in main hand for immunity to flanking and +20% AS when facing more then 2 enemies.

 

I like it a lot too. The raw damage saved me a lot of times against red skull enemies with too much armor. I planned on skipping for DAOM, but i think you are right. Once im further in the game i'll post this builde here if it proves to be effective. Thanks!

[Ophiuchus]

I just started a Warlock for my second potd run (not solo). I tried a Witch but quickly discarded it...i realized it would end up as a squishy right clicker with no use for its spells.

 

it helps that wizard is my favorite class and i loved it in my first run, and the mix barb looks promising. i wanted a class with constant aoe dps, versatile and some good survival. i just dont like the slower progression for multiclassing.

 

massive action speed with maxed AS stats, frenzy and DAOM, combining that with combusting wounds and ninagauths mooring will give some interesting dps...

 

lengraths reflection provides good reflex and convertion to grazes, mirrored image helps to negate frenzy def debuff, spirit shield some good armor. im considering running 1h+shield (narians ward has a lot of sinergy) with passive (+def/+ref) if i feel too squishy.

 

i think this is strong enough even for a solo run. if i like it enough i may try it in my next run.

I haven't tried DAoM on my Warlock since it was buffed. Wouldn't Frenzy's bonus action speed override the +15%? IIRC, the Dex bonus would stack but in that case Fleet Feet would be ideal.

 

 

 

I vote Warlock, mostly because Infuse with Vital Essence counters the downside of Berserker. I'm currently working on a build now for it, but I doubt I'll ever post it.

 

Warlock could be really cool too... Hmm. Could pick up Llengrath's Martial Masteries for all of the really good defensive buff spells. 

 

Yep. Wizard/Martial classes really shine with the versatility of grimoires: when leveling you can select your core buffs and equip offensive grimoires or focus on the martial portion and pick up Llengrath's.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[M4xw0lf]

I never picked a caster as main character so far... but I am now tempted to make a Warlock and let the AI do the buffing.

 

edit: Took some time to look at the spells... of course the most useful looking ones for martial self-buffing are spread between Enchanting and Illusion. So no wizard subclass, I guess.

Edited July 31, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[eschu101]

 

I just started a Warlock for my second potd run (not solo). I tried a Witch but quickly discarded it...i realized it would end up as a squishy right clicker with no use for its spells.

 

it helps that wizard is my favorite class and i loved it in my first run, and the mix barb looks promising. i wanted a class with constant aoe dps, versatile and some good survival. i just dont like the slower progression for multiclassing.

 

massive action speed with maxed AS stats, frenzy and DAOM, combining that with combusting wounds and ninagauths mooring will give some interesting dps...

 

lengraths reflection provides good reflex and convertion to grazes, mirrored image helps to negate frenzy def debuff, spirit shield some good armor. im considering running 1h+shield (narians ward has a lot of sinergy) with passive (+def/+ref) if i feel too squishy.

 

i think this is strong enough even for a solo run. if i like it enough i may try it in my next run.

I haven't tried DAoM on my Warlock since it was buffed. Wouldn't Frenzy's bonus action speed override the +15%? IIRC, the Dex bonus would stack but in that case Fleet Feet would be ideal.

 

This is a good question, didnt think about it. Does anyone know  if they stack?

 

Combusting Wounds + Sun and Moon + Sungrazer/Magrans/Modwyr + Firewall/Bitter Mooring or Death Ray with Barbs action speed should do quite a dps...Ring of focused flame and the cat pet with +1 fire PL. This is getting interesting, maybe exchange a bit of dps for survival trading the offhand for Narians Ward with weapon+shield passive...

Edited July 31, 2018 by eschu101