Is there absolutely any point to taking a Wizard subclass?

[Stardusk78]

It seems to me that in the current state of the game there is absolutely no reason to use any specialist because each school offers some tremendous spells and the penalties are huge for taking a specialisation, losing access to them outright. I think I have come up with a decent solution. 

 

Each specialisation grants a +2 power level in its respective school AND you gain access to all spells but those not of your school give you +20% action speed penalty and those of your opposition school give you a +50% action speed penalty. I am not sure about the specific bonuses but I think this would be a start and make taking specialisations more worth it.

[Myztik]

I rarely used the other spells outside of Evocation and they could easily be supplemented by another class or other abilities. The other subclasses are garbage

[Crucis]

I honestly think that the devs made a huge mistake by sticking with the old and tired wizard schools paradigm (i.e. Evoker, Conjurer, and so on).  I think that it would have been vastly more interesting if they'd tried something along these lines.

 

Subclass #1:  Spellsword:  Spellswords would specialize in spells that conjured magical weapons and defenses, as well as spells that buffed them personally.  Spellswords can cast ONLY "spellsword" spells, but they do so at +1 (perhaps even +2) power levels.

 

Subclass #2:  Elementalists:  Elementalists would specialize in primarily elemental (i.e. fire, cold, electricity, and acid) offensive spells, though there might also be some defensive elemental spells as well.  Elementalists can cast ONLY "elemental" spells, but they do so at +1 (maybe even +2) power levels.

 

Subclass #3:  Necromancers:  Necromancers would specialize in death spells.  This would include poison spells, paralyze or petrification spells, spells that terrify enemies, as well as death spells.  Necromancers can only cast necromancy spells, but they do so at +1 (maybe even +2) power levels.

 

"Subclass" #4:  Mages:  The Mage is a true generalist, having access to all wizard spells.  (The Mage would be the "no subclass" version of the wizard.)  Mages are also more learned wizards, having a greater knowledge of arcana than more specialized wizards (represented by a +1 or +2 bonus to the Arcana skill).  Mage's spells are weaker than more specialized wizards (no bonus to power level), but this is offset by their ability to choose any wizard spells.   

 

A possible interesting benefit for Mages might be that they are treated for spell casting as if their intelligence was +2 higher than it really is, to reflect their greater mastery of the arcane arts in general.  They may not have the raw power of the specialists, but they can gain the benefits of greater Arcane knowledge with an innate +2 to their INT for their spells.

 

 

 

Anyways, this is just a rough sketch of what I think would have been a much more interesting model for wizard subclasses.  I left out anything to do with illusions because I kind of feel that illusion and deception should be the domain of the cipher, while raw arcane power should be the domain of the wizard.

[AFA]

It is odd that after they ripped off D&D5e whole-cloth in PoE, they decided to stick some older stuff in with Deadfire. In the BG series, the only specialist wizard worth anything was the conjurer, and that is because it gave up only a single semi-useless school. The PoE wizards give up way too much

 

Would have loved something like the 5E version of the sorcerer. No spell books, only a few spells per level, but you get the meta-magic to manipulate those spells in a variety of ways. No real PoE lore to back that up, but then they did a good job of reflavoring 5E warlock into cipher

[Boeroer]

I wouldn't say there is no point - if you plan to only use a certain subset of spells anyway it may be benefical to use an Evoker etc.. Or if you want to build around Form of the Fearsome Brute (just for fun - atm it's not really good) you need to take Transmuter, Conjurer's familiars aren't too bad after all... and so on.

 

But I also think there is very little inducement when it comes to wizard subclasses. The drawback of completely losing access to some spells is just too harsh. I would like it better if those "forbidden" schools just came with a malus instead. Or some other drawback.

 

I didn't use a wizard subclass so far just because the spells I find most useful are spread over all schools - and the small benefit a subclass grants doesn't balance this out for me personally.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[antoniokolano]

Evoker is fun if you're not the only wizard in group - losing access to spells that Aloth can still cast is not that big of a deal. The doublecast part is waaaay too unpredictable to rely on though.

[Manveru123]

Evoker is still good, you lose access to spells you wouldn't use anyway.

[knownastherat]

Changes in 1.2 beta

 

Wizard Subclass +20% Recovery Time -> +10%.

Reordered Wizard Subclass effects to show bonuses before penalties.

Wizard Subclass +1PL -> +2 PL.

 

 

Plus a number of changes to Wizard.

 

IMO still not good enough for all but Evoker. Not being able to cast spells from one school could be enough. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by knownastherat

[AndreaColombo]

+1 PL to +2 PL helps Evoker more than any other subclass; and Evoker is the one that didn't need a buff.

 

I guess they're just really keen on barring two schools no matter how bad an idea it clearly is.

[dunehunter]

Ogre form is still pretty weak because the armor penalty is untouched. Also it still looks like my character is swinging a club when he use his fist to attack.

[AndreaColombo]

Ogre form is still pretty weak because the armor penalty is untouched. Also it still looks like my character is swinging a club when he use his fist to attack.

 

Wow. After all this time it's still in this shape...

 

May want to post to the bug forum again, since the reports during the beta clearly didn't make it anywhere.

Edited June 28, 2018 by AndreaColombo