Is riposte just bad?

[Faytte]

I read all over reddit how deflection isn't very useful, useless in POTD, and how Riposte isn't a very good talent. Is this true?

[funkyfritter]

Deflection is useful, you just can't stack enough of it to reach nigh-immortality. For the same reason riposte is fine as a minor passive bonus, but not consistent enough to build a character around.

[Faytte]

My main concern is in POTD that even with a deflection build that monsters will mostly hit you, rarely miss, and thus rarely trigger riposte since it only has a chance of activating per deflect. 

[ppscurry]

Junk, pretty much. Unless you can stack your deflection up to 150. If you can, you have a 25% chance of getting a free full attack IF they target your deflection. That's a really big if by the way. Considering the fact that the final boss is a dragon and likes to hit your reflex instead, you are kinda boned if you rely on riposte. Most bosses like to spam abilities so chances are they won't target your deflection too. 

 

Conclusion: Junk as a build around. Junk as a bonus since you have to build around it to even stand a chance of getting that bonus.

[Dorftek]

Argh! I click on a thread about riposte and I learn that the final boss is a dragon! Use spoiler tag please

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

It only procs off of complete misses, not grazes. In PoE 1 that was how it was originally but it was later patched to proc off of grazes as well, same change probably needs to be implemented in Dadfire.

[Dorftek]

Yeah definitely needs to proc on graze too. Or increase its proc chance on miss. 20% is kinda lame

[pi2repsion]

Deflection is useful, you just can't stack enough of it to reach nigh-immortality. For the same reason riposte is fine as a minor passive bonus, but not consistent enough to build a character around.

You stack stack deflection high enough as a paladin/wizard to be nigh-immortal where deflection attacks are concerned (somebody posted a 212 deflection build in the forum recently); You won't be able to reach as much as a paladin/rogue,  but even if you only reach 150-170 that should cause a lot of misses and the advantage of the paladin multiclass is that your other defenses are going to be sky-high too - particularly reflex if going sword & board.

[Wargasm]

Argh! I click on a thread about riposte and I learn that the final boss is a dragon! Use spoiler tag please

Hey genius...you just spoiled it for me by complaining about spoilers. Congratulations. 

 

Yeah, riposte doesn't seem very useful, at least compared to the alternatives available. 

[Amentep]

This forum has a spoiler warning in its title, therefore all threads in this forum can and will have spoilers in them.  In many cases its is difficult to discuss mechanics and strategies without being spoilerific, and therefore spoilers should be expected in these threads.

 

If there is a spoiler in a non-spoiler forum, then please report the post rather than try to attack other posters for posting the spoiler.

[Manveru123]

Paladin/Trickster Holy Slayer can be built to be a very powerful user of Riposte, especially combined with WotEP. It is a great ability if you build your character correctly.

[gkathellar]

It's not strictly bad, it's just that it will never be a major component of any build, and will only ever be useful to Deflection-stacking builds, mainly Tricksters. Manveru mentioned Holy Slayer, and Swashbucklers and Shadowdancers can also make respectable use of it. I'm sure other builds can as well.

 

This is just sort of a logical consequence of the way Deflection works: there's such a short list of ways to increase it meaningfully that only the very few builds that get most or all of them can get serious mileage out of stacking it.

Edited August 10, 2018 by gkathellar

[Dr <3]

Imho a lot of people overthink this ability. I think that it it good. Maybe not a pivotal talent to dedicate a whole build around ( and you can do this if you really want actually) but good nontheless.

Since attack rolls include a 100 face dice, chance are that miss will happen sooner or later. When they happen you have a chance to a full attack.

Compare it with an ability considered universally good as fighter's mob stance. Many fights in this game included < 5 mobs. If you fight 5 enemies this means that even if playing solo you can get as maxiumum 4 full attacks for that fight. If your deflection is not abysmal, chances are that during the fight ripose will trigger 3-5 times too. And is a passive ability. What do you have to take instead? Bear fortitude?

[Boeroer]

When you use it on a tank (for example Unbroken/Trickster) and pair it with lots of engagement slots and Persistent Distraction and another riposting ability from an item (Tuotilo's Palm or Akola's Apex Ward) it's not bad - because you'll get Deathblow-Ripostes and your defelction, combined with enemies' debuff, will be very good.

 

It needed to be better in PoE (30% on graze, 20% on miss) because the PoE rogue youldn't reach such high deflection numbers as a Deadfire rogue can.

 

It's not supergood but in certain situations it's not as bad as I first thought.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[Malkoy]

Natural synergy with Trickster, can be built for damage: The Faceless Dancer or as a support tank with Unbroken/Devoted and Patinated Plate.

 

Bonus: Devoted (free ArPen, deflection and accuracy buffs and +3 engagements) + Trickster with WotP (Double riposte with Dazed applied in AoE) + Patinated Plate (30% chance to Stun enemies that hit you, if they manage to) + Blackened Plate Helm (+1 Enagement) + Unbreakable

 

Imho best main tank I've ever had

 

Gear:

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Malkoy

[grasida]

Bonus: Devoted (free ArPen, deflection and accuracy buffs and +3 engagements) + Trickster with WotP (Double riposte with Dazed applied in AoE) + Patinated Plate (30% chance to Stun enemies that hit you, if they manage to) + Blackened Plate Helm (+1 Enagement) + Unbreakable

 

If I understand correctly, offensive parry on WotP doesn't apply the AoE, rather it's a special strike against a single enemy. It's still really good. Even ignoring the damage, dazed is very powerful for a tank, since it's effectively plus 4 armor. I can't think of that many reliable sources of dazed that can be kept up against an enemy reliably throughout a fight. Griffin's blade could possibly manage it on a crit build, but I'm not sure what else could.

[Boeroer]

Correct

[Malkoy]

 

Bonus: Devoted (free ArPen, deflection and accuracy buffs and +3 engagements) + Trickster with WotP (Double riposte with Dazed applied in AoE) + Patinated Plate (30% chance to Stun enemies that hit you, if they manage to) + Blackened Plate Helm (+1 Enagement) + Unbreakable

 

If I understand correctly, offensive parry on WotP doesn't apply the AoE, rather it's a special strike against a single enemy. It's still really good. Even ignoring the damage, dazed is very powerful for a tank, since it's effectively plus 4 armor. I can't think of that many reliable sources of dazed that can be kept up against an enemy reliably throughout a fight. Griffin's blade could possibly manage it on a crit build, but I'm not sure what else could.

 

My bad, was judging by the debuffs icon on enemies. Must be applied frequently enough though

[thundercleese]

Downside with dazed (all might allfictions really) is immune to engagement stops you from engaging them too.

[Dorftek]

Yeah I really like riposte too, but I liked it better in the first game. However as it has already have been said it is a great passive ability for any high engagement tank. I still wish there was a proc chance on grazes

[Boeroer]

That would be nice. Doesn't even need to be 30% like in PoE.

[Lampros]

Junk, pretty much. Unless you can stack your deflection up to 150. If you can, you have a 25% chance of getting a free full attack IF they target your deflection. That's a really big if by the way. Considering the fact that the final boss is a dragon and likes to hit your reflex instead, you are kinda boned if you rely on riposte. Most bosses like to spam abilities so chances are they won't target your deflection too. 

 

Conclusion: Junk as a build around. Junk as a bonus since you have to build around it to even stand a chance of getting that bonus.

 

150 shouldn't be THAT difficult on certain builds - namely Paladin/Trickster or Fighter (with Conquerer Stance)/Trickster. But Mirrored Image and Llengrath's Displaced Image do not stack, right? I just checked my level 20 Paladin, and I made 132 Deflection on a dumped Resolve build Holy Slayer with just Mirrored Image.

[whimper]

On solo runs, I think Riposte is fantastic, even if you’re not running a super high deflection build. So many things attack you that a fair number will miss, and if a reasonable number of those lead to ripostes you can significantly increase how much damage you dish out...

[Boeroer]

Mirrored Image stacks with Llengrath's Safeguard or Vigorous Defense.

 

It's possible to get to 150+ Deflection with a Trickster/Fighter while using Mirrored Images and Refreshing Defense and Mob Stance (instead of Warrior Stance). With several engagement slots and Persistent Distraction and Riposte you can be a great tank who also passively debuffs 6 enemies and deals good damage. In such a setup Riposte can add good dps to your build. Arcane Knight can work as well but has less attack speed bonuses and engagement.

 

A more risky approach but also more satisfying I tried out is to use an Arcane Knight or Battlemage with Citzal's Spirit Lance and Riposte. You might need to get Bracers and Cape of Greater Deflection. High Intimidate and that scarred Breastplate I forgot the name of is also nice.

 

Riposte is obviously worse on PotD.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

Mirrored Image stacks with Llengrath's Safeguard or Vigorous Defense.

 

It's possible to get to 150+ Deflection with a Trickster/Fighter while using Mirrored Images and Refreshing Defense and Mob Stance (instead of Warrior Stance). With several engagement slots and Persistent Distraction and Riposte you can be a great tank who also passively debuffs 6 enemies and deals good damage. In such a setup Riposte can add good dps to your build. Arcane Knight can work as well but has less attack speed bonuses and engagement.

 

A more risky approach but also more satisfying I tried out is to use an Arcane Knight or Battlemage with Citzal's Spirit Lance and Riposte. You might need to get Bracers and Cape of Greater Deflection. High Intimidate and that scarred Breastplate I forgot the name of is also nice.

 

Riposte is obviously worse on PotD.

 

I am really beginning to doubt the utility of Mob Stance over Conquerer Stance. Once again, it may be my play-style, but I am running 5 melees (including the 2 pets from the Ranger multi-classes), and I just do not seem all that out-numbered even in PotD. In that context, I'd rather have the potential +10 Accuracy and Deflection.