Should I buy a ship?

[Crucis]

I'm level 12, and have yet to learn the ship-to-ship combat system. I usually avoid other ships, and when confronted just board directyl. However it costs so much to do so, in terms of repair and injury, so I'm thinking maybe the ship combat is a better way.

 

My question: I'm unsure if I need to invest in a bigger ship, or if it's enough to simple upgrade my own? I have 50.000 money, and some of the ships cost all of that.

 

Will my own small ship do just fine, or is it expected to get a bigger one at some point?

 

1.  The base ship in the game has served me quite well thus far, and I'm up to level 10 or 11, I think.  It helps to upgrade her sails to make the ship faster, both in and out of combat.  You don't need to spend obscene amounts of money to get a decent little upgrade.  It also helps to get better guns.  The stock guns are rather weak.  There are a number of good upgraded guns.  Some are better short range guns while others are better at long range.  Pick the ones that suit you.  I have a pair of Wyrmtongues on the starboard side of my ship, and a pair of other good guns on the port side.

 

2. I can't speak for later in the game as to whether one really needs a larger ship to survive.

 

3. There are videos on Youtube which give some very good explanations about ship to ship combat in PoE2.  And I strongly suggest checking them out.  Ship to ship combat can actually be kinda fun once you understand how to do it properly.  But in all honestly, I prefer boarding, because I suspect that if you just outright sink enemy ships, you won't get any of their gold or various pieces of equipment, since it'll probably just sink to the bottom.

 

4. And even if you don't really want to bother with ship to ship duels, you can always just charge directly at the enemy ship and force a boarding action.  (Never select the boarding option at the start of a battle, because that just causes you to take a lot of unnecessary damage and crew injuries.)  But one thing that helps a lot here is to have picked up a lot of extra companions and sidekicks to have in reserve, because during boarding actions, they'll fight alongside your party (and the crew).  And having a full crew helps too, because they fight as well.  The more warm bodies you have fighting with your party during boarding actions, the better.

[Karkarov]

It's safer to board a ship by starting the battle and advancing very close, then boarding when the option pops up. You'll rarely take much damage that way, and you don't have to bother upgrading your ship. You get a bit more loot by boarding, but your crew gains more exp by sinking ships. You can easily get crew exp through storms and random events, so boarding is better even if it wasn't faster.

That is not true, you do NOT get more loot from boarding.  You get less.  There is no advantage to boarding other than skipping ship combat mechanics if you just can't stand them.

[mrscojangles]

You're likely going to reach a point where you have so much gold there is no reason not to upgrade if you intend to do any ship stuff. I've bought every single ship for the achieve, decked out my junk, have like 3000 of the +1 morale food and drink, have bought every piece of gear i've found that I want (and some just to toss in my bags as potential backups), bought up all enchanting mats from every vendor I find just to make sure I have anything I might need, and I still have a a few hundred thousand and maps i haven't explored and quests I haven't completed.

Edited May 19, 2018 by mrscojangles

[Mazama]

 

It's safer to board a ship by starting the battle and advancing very close, then boarding when the option pops up. You'll rarely take much damage that way, and you don't have to bother upgrading your ship. You get a bit more loot by boarding, but your crew gains more exp by sinking ships. You can easily get crew exp through storms and random events, so boarding is better even if it wasn't faster.

That is not true, you do NOT get more loot from boarding.  You get less.  There is no advantage to boarding other than skipping ship combat mechanics if you just can't stand them.

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8hqmww/any_reason_to_destroy_ships_at_all_when_you_can/

 

ObsidianEric

 

Obsidian25 points·11 days ago·edited 11 days ago

No worries, I gotcha now. Ship battles are a tradeoff. If you fight deck-to-deck (i.e., board a ship) you do get more loot. However, if you sink the enemy ship, you get more experience for your crew (sailor tales), which makes your ship increasingly more and more powerful, meaning you can take on ships that you would never be able to fight deck-to-deck much earlier in the game, and get a lot of gold and loot much earlier than you would otherwise. So, if you fight every battle deck-to-deck, you'll get more loot per encounter, but your crew will probably never reach their full potential. Fight every battle on the seas, and you'll have an elite crew, but you might miss out on some loot.

 

 

Edit: added quote

Edited May 19, 2018 by Mazama

[mrscojangles]

 

 

It's safer to board a ship by starting the battle and advancing very close, then boarding when the option pops up. You'll rarely take much damage that way, and you don't have to bother upgrading your ship. You get a bit more loot by boarding, but your crew gains more exp by sinking ships. You can easily get crew exp through storms and random events, so boarding is better even if it wasn't faster.

That is not true, you do NOT get more loot from boarding.  You get less.  There is no advantage to boarding other than skipping ship combat mechanics if you just can't stand them.

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8hqmww/any_reason_to_destroy_ships_at_all_when_you_can/

 

 

While I haven't done all the ship fights both ways to do a complete side by side comparison, it definitely has seemed like the loot is the same between similar ships if you board or do ship combat except for ship fixtures - ie: I don't recall ever looting cannons when i sink anyone, where as I have when I board them. But the actual gear itself (weapons, armor, gold, etc) seems to be the same or very close to the same between similar ships. I can't recall if I've got food when sinking the ships or when boarding them, but as far as gear or any unique weapons/armor, you're going to get that stuff either way. And at the end of the day, a few extra cannons or food is chump change. So I'd say do whatever you enjoy because the differences are pretty negligible. Definitely seem to get more ship/sailor experience from actually doing the battles and not boarding straight away though.

 

Edit: In response to the added picture, I'm guessing the "more loot" is probably including the ship fixtures like cannons, supplies like food and probably some extra vendor gear. I'm sure eventually someone will test out a bunch of the fights side by side, but I'd be very surprised if you're missing out on unique items from the named captains or anything by sinking a ship as opposed to boarding it, so it still boils down to preference as gold becomes a non issue relatively early on in this game.

Edited May 19, 2018 by mrscojangles

[Karkarov]

 

 

It's safer to board a ship by starting the battle and advancing very close, then boarding when the option pops up. You'll rarely take much damage that way, and you don't have to bother upgrading your ship. You get a bit more loot by boarding, but your crew gains more exp by sinking ships. You can easily get crew exp through storms and random events, so boarding is better even if it wasn't faster.

That is not true, you do NOT get more loot from boarding.  You get less.  There is no advantage to boarding other than skipping ship combat mechanics if you just can't stand them.

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8hqmww/any_reason_to_destroy_ships_at_all_when_you_can/

 

Thanks for that random reddit thread, my in game experience doesn't agree.  If there is reduced loot it is obscenely minimal.  The Crew exp on the other hand is much much higher if you sink.  Like twice the exp.  Also once you have a real ship with a real crew, it is actually faster to sink.

[Casper]

i'm quite happy with my fully upgraded galleon (called it Iovara's Defiance), 2 batteries of royal bronze, matched with 2 batteries wyrmtongues per broadside. both cannons fall into the same range, so they work well together.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Casper

[Ashen Rohk]

I'm going to try and both buy and steal ships. If you side with Zamar early on he'll give you a discount at the shipwright's.

[Hades]

I'm not very good at the ship combat and only started winning battles with less injuries / damage than ramming once I'd got hold of a galleon, and even then I didn't get the system really. Like I'd look at the cannons and it would say 40% chance to hit. I'd reduce distance, but the distance displayed stayed the same, now suddenly the hit chance was 90%, but I'd still miss a lot of the time.

 

It's not always due to range, it's also due to the wind. What you should do after turning (or after a jibe) is to hold position for one turn. Or even "brace" that'll stabilize your ship, and if you're in the range of those cannons, it SHOULD be 100% hit rate. 

[Casper]

 

I'm not very good at the ship combat and only started winning battles with less injuries / damage than ramming once I'd got hold of a galleon, and even then I didn't get the system really. Like I'd look at the cannons and it would say 40% chance to hit. I'd reduce distance, but the distance displayed stayed the same, now suddenly the hit chance was 90%, but I'd still miss a lot of the time.

 

It's not always due to range, it's also due to the wind. What you should do after turning (or after a jibe) is to hold position for one turn. Or even "brace" that'll stabilize your ship, and if you're in the range of those cannons, it SHOULD be 100% hit rate. 

 

i guess it is worth noting a lot of cannons have a minimum accurate range, closing beyond that impacts accuracy negatively. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Casper

[PangaeaACDC]

 

You can beat every ship in the game as is with just your sloop and four imperial long guns. Just throw on some semi-decent hull/sails and you are set. As long as your crew members are sufficiently leveled, you should come out on top by spamming in-combat repairs, barring unlucky rolls.

Good luck.  There is at least one ship I have encountered in game that can easily land hits outside it's optimum range, and can do very high damage per salvo.  You will be unlikely to beat it with a sloop, I don't care how good your crew is or what upgrades you have.  You can ram it, but it's crew is also level 15, so I hope you are pretty darn far in the game.

 

Yes the sloop played right, with a good crew, good upgrades, and good guns, can beat "most" ship encounters.  That said, you will take a long time per fight doing it that way, assuming you even win every time, you might not because there are a small amount of legit nasty ships out there.  Meanwhile I sit on my junk, close to 400 give or take, fire two salvos, and i win.  No I don't care what the other ship is, two salvo's I win.  I won ship battles against Galleons with upgraded hulls in 135 hp in less than 2 minutes. 

 

Ask the guy with two imperial long guns per side how long his ship battles take? 

 

Yes it costs a lot to get the ship, and all the upgrades, but trust me, it makes ship combat insanely faster.  Also, what else are you spending it on?  Yes, there are cool items in a lot of shops, but most of them aren't as good as what you can loot, or you can also loot them somewhere else.  Additionally, farther you get in the game easier it is to make money, I have cleared some dungeon maps where every mob was dropping exceptional gear and I sold the stuff for over 20k from that one dungeon only.

 

 

You don't find it kind of boring to sink any ship with 1-2 salvos?

 

Currently I have a Dhow, and it has served me well. Takes a bit longer than two salvos because we have just 3 cannons per side, but it's been a lot of fun, and sometimes you get into a sticky situation where it's somewhat close. I find that exciting. "Hope I don't hit their sails now, or they could do some serious damage on the counter afterwards".

 

Suppose I'll still upgrade to a Junk (funny eh?) at some point, just a little concerned about the slow movement. Right now when I don't have a ton of money, think I'll prefer to upgrade equipment on the Dhow instead of buying a galleon or junk.

 

Btw: those who have basically sank every ship out there, have you managed to get crew with two skills up to master in one or both of them? I haven't so far, and it looks like they are topping out at four 'stars' combined.

[Kykuy]

Yep, you can only get "specialists" to Master(4 ranks). Otherwise, they cap at 4 ranks in any combination.

[Ciphys]

 

 

You can beat every ship in the game as is with just your sloop and four imperial long guns. Just throw on some semi-decent hull/sails and you are set. As long as your crew members are sufficiently leveled, you should come out on top by spamming in-combat repairs, barring unlucky rolls.

Good luck.  There is at least one ship I have encountered in game that can easily land hits outside it's optimum range, and can do very high damage per salvo.  You will be unlikely to beat it with a sloop, I don't care how good your crew is or what upgrades you have.  You can ram it, but it's crew is also level 15, so I hope you are pretty darn far in the game.

 

Yes the sloop played right, with a good crew, good upgrades, and good guns, can beat "most" ship encounters.  That said, you will take a long time per fight doing it that way, assuming you even win every time, you might not because there are a small amount of legit nasty ships out there.  Meanwhile I sit on my junk, close to 400 give or take, fire two salvos, and i win.  No I don't care what the other ship is, two salvo's I win.  I won ship battles against Galleons with upgraded hulls in 135 hp in less than 2 minutes. 

 

Ask the guy with two imperial long guns per side how long his ship battles take? 

 

Yes it costs a lot to get the ship, and all the upgrades, but trust me, it makes ship combat insanely faster.  Also, what else are you spending it on?  Yes, there are cool items in a lot of shops, but most of them aren't as good as what you can loot, or you can also loot them somewhere else.  Additionally, farther you get in the game easier it is to make money, I have cleared some dungeon maps where every mob was dropping exceptional gear and I sold the stuff for over 20k from that one dungeon only.

 

 

You don't find it kind of boring to sink any ship with 1-2 salvos?

 

Currently I have a Dhow, and it has served me well. Takes a bit longer than two salvos because we have just 3 cannons per side, but it's been a lot of fun, and sometimes you get into a sticky situation where it's somewhat close. I find that exciting. "Hope I don't hit their sails now, or they could do some serious damage on the counter afterwards".

 

Suppose I'll still upgrade to a Junk (funny eh?) at some point, just a little concerned about the slow movement. Right now when I don't have a ton of money, think I'll prefer to upgrade equipment on the Dhow instead of buying a galleon or junk.

 

Btw: those who have basically sank every ship out there, have you managed to get crew with two skills up to master in one or both of them? I haven't so far, and it looks like they are topping out at four 'stars' combined.

 

Can confirm that crew members tops out at 4 stars in total.  That makes people with all their attributes in 1 skill pretty valuable, since they are the "best at their role". 

[Masticator]

What does it mean when it says a crew member advanced in a rank and in a level. What's the difference between rank and level?

 

I'm doing more ship combat lately. Early on I just ran if I could. I'm upgraded to a Galleon now and eventually will get a Junk for the achievement. I was finding it was difficult when enemies had better ships than me. In fact, my only wipe in this game is when my ship was sunk. I find I have to get a better ship because the enemies seem to have better ships (do they scale with your level?)

 

Though I may go back to the fast one to finish exploring the map. The fast one is pretty nice for exploration.

[PangaeaACDC]

Thanks for the confirmation; so it is as I suspected. Makes versatile people pretty useless then, ironically enough. The versatile people cost more too, at least when you recruit them + wages. Would be much better if versatile sailors could get master in both skills. That would actually make them good.

 

I should now just give up trying to level up the 3* deckhand / 1* boatswain I have

[Karkarov]

You don't find it kind of boring to sink any ship with 1-2 salvos?

 

Currently I have a Dhow, and it has served me well. Takes a bit longer than two salvos because we have just 3 cannons per side, but it's been a lot of fun, and sometimes you get into a sticky situation where it's somewhat close. I find that exciting. "Hope I don't hit their sails now, or they could do some serious damage on the counter afterwards".

 

Suppose I'll still upgrade to a Junk (funny eh?) at some point, just a little concerned about the slow movement. Right now when I don't have a ton of money, think I'll prefer to upgrade equipment on the Dhow instead of buying a galleon or junk.

 

Btw: those who have basically sank every ship out there, have you managed to get crew with two skills up to master in one or both of them? I haven't so far, and it looks like they are topping out at four 'stars' combined.

I get that winning with a lesser ship is more rewarding, I sank over 1/3rd of the named ships with the Sloop.  But if I can win on turn 9-12 (where 7 of those turns is two holds, 1 jibe, and two round of firing), I would much rather do that than win in 20+.  I think my shortest win in the Sloop was against a Voyager and it still took 15-16 turns, and three of them were not auto turns from a jibe.

 

Slow movement on the Junk?  It is actually just slightly slower than the Dhow, with good upgrades you won't even be able to tell the difference.  The 3 turn jibe doesn't matter, because you win on cannon fire #2  instead of 4-5.

 

Ciphys is also correct, crew can only earn 4 stars total.  So characters that are recruited with only 1 star, or 2 stars but in the same skill, are the best crew members because they can achieve master rank in a skill whereas the others can't.

 

EDIT:  Versatile crew are still okay.  There is always the off chance someone will get injured, or you have to do move order to deal with a deck fire or something. Having some backfill can cover in those moments.

 

@Masticator

 

Level is their literal level.  Before you have party members out the wazoo your crew will help you in fights.  The higher level they are the better they are as fighters.  As you fill out your sidekicks, companions, and maybe hire a merc, they start helping in battle instead of your crew.  Rank are the star things we mentioned, each normal crew person can only earn 2-3 rank ups depending on how many ranks they had when you hired them on.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Karkarov

[Masticator]

ahh thanks. Anyone know where to find more crew members? I picked some up at the tavern in Queen's Berth and the tavern on the pirate island where the highest ranking pirate is (I can't remember the name sorry). Seems like I might have seen some more somewhere, but I can't remember where. I'd like to pick up some who can achieve master rank and aren't as versatile.

[KDubya]

So is it better to go for a Junk, Dhow or a Galleon if I want to upgrade  from the starter ship and actually win in ship combat?

[PangaeaACDC]

You don't find it kind of boring to sink any ship with 1-2 salvos?

 

Currently I have a Dhow, and it has served me well. Takes a bit longer than two salvos because we have just 3 cannons per side, but it's been a lot of fun, and sometimes you get into a sticky situation where it's somewhat close. I find that exciting. "Hope I don't hit their sails now, or they could do some serious damage on the counter afterwards".

I get that winning with a lesser ship is more rewarding, I sank over 1/3rd of the named ships with the Sloop.  But if I can win on turn 9-12 (where 7 of those turns is two holds, 1 jibe, and two round of firing), I would much rather do that than win in 20+.  I think my shortest win in the Sloop was against a Voyager and it still took 15-16 turns, and three of them were not auto turns from a jibe.

 

Slow movement on the Junk?  It is actually just slightly slower than the Dhow, with good upgrades you won't even be able to tell the difference.  The 3 turn jibe doesn't matter, because you win on cannon fire #2  instead of 4-5.

 

It's not really about speed for me, because I genuinely like the ship combat, going through the turns and adapting depending on what happens. Great fun to see random events on the enemy ship and being able to take down superior ships. For instance yesterday I sunk a 135 hull-health ship without being in real danger myself with the Dhow. Okay, I had just bought the expensive top hull (+15 health), but still great fun.

 

As indicated I'll probably upgrade to a galleon or junk at some point, but unless I run into something much wilder than the 2-white skull 135-huller, I'm thinking the Dhow should be enough to sink everything out there.

 

Attached is a picture of the Stomper going down, and another where the enemy got badly hurt by random events, and never got back into it after that. My guess is that it's kind of a Crit effect, so with well over 100 chances, this will happen more frequently. (And a slight advantage with the Dhow is that the enemy has a lower hit-chance against you than if you have a Junk, 60% base vs 70% base chance).

 

[PangaeaACDC]

So is it better to go for a Junk, Dhow or a Galleon if I want to upgrade  from the starter ship and actually win in ship combat?

 

Depends what you want I suppose. The Dhow is faster, so it's easier to manoeuvre in combat if something special happens, like the enemy trying to escape. Largely this isn't an issue though, so then it's down to 2-turn jibes (180-degree turn) vs 3-turns with the galleon and junk. If you want combat to be over with as quick as possible, the junk is probably the best ship, as it has 5 cannons on each side. The galleon has 4 and the dhow 3.

 

The Galleon has the superior hull with 120-base health, while the dhow and junk is equal with 80 base health (more with upgrades).

 

The attached picture from another thread should help greatly

 

PS: The base hit chance for the sloop (starting ship) is 50%. This is the enemy's chance to hit you, before other modifiers like crew ranks and distance.

Edited May 20, 2018 by PangaeaACDC

[PIP-Clownboy]

Thanks for that random reddit thread, my in game experience doesn't agree.  If there is reduced loot it is obscenely minimal.  The Crew exp on the other hand is much much higher if you sink.  Like twice the exp.  Also once you have a real ship with a real crew, it is actually faster to sink.

 

 

 

If you shoot out their sails, then board you get decent xp and more loot. You definitely get more loot boarding though

 

Also, a Dhow with full speed upgrades will be in boarding range after 2-4 full sails. That's my goto at this point, ship combat does nothing for more me after the first playthrough.

 

If you want proof, my first playthrough I sank Bounty - Biakara and missed out on this item, which did not drop: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Lance_of_the_Midwood_Stag

 

In a subsequent playthrough I boarded that bounty and looted the unique pike. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by PIP-Clownboy

[PIP-Clownboy]

So is it better to go for a Junk, Dhow or a Galleon if I want to upgrade  from the starter ship and actually win in ship combat?

 

Junk is overkill. You can easily win every ship combats in the game with a Dhow if you want. Though by endgame you'll have more than enough coin to buy all the ships anyways, so it's preference.

[PangaeaACDC]

 

Thanks for that random reddit thread, my in game experience doesn't agree.  If there is reduced loot it is obscenely minimal.  The Crew exp on the other hand is much much higher if you sink.  Like twice the exp.  Also once you have a real ship with a real crew, it is actually faster to sink.

 

 

 

If you shoot out their sails, then board you get decent xp and more loot. You definitely get more loot boarding though

 

Also, a Dhow with full speed upgrades will be in boarding range after 2-4 full sails. That's my goto at this point, ship combat does nothing for more me after the first playthrough.

 

If you want proof, my first playthrough I sank Bounty - Biakara and missed out on this item, which did not drop: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Lance_of_the_Midwood_Stag

 

In a subsequent playthrough I boarded that bounty and looted the unique pike. 

 

 

I have that Pike and have done ship-to-ship combat for all ships so far except one early game, so must have got that from loot while sinking the ship.

 

Can see you would get more weapons and armour loot from boarding, but maybe less food and such items? At some point I'm sure people will do a side-by-side comparison. But you do get more XP and levels from sinking them, which is quite handy too.

 

The loot is really a non-factor though, so people should do what they prefer. I happen to prefer the ship-to-ship combat, and I see others prefer boarding. It's great that both options are viable.

 

I haven't boarded a merchant ship so not sure what loot you get then, but I've sunk quite a few, and you get heaps upon heaps of cannonballs, medical supplies and the like. 40-50 cannonballs is not rare. Doesn't cost a lot either ofc, but it's nice to get them for 'free'. Just wish they didn't overflow, causing me to lose so many.

[1TTFFSSE]

Dhow is the nicest bang per buck ship so just go with that and put the money into upgrading weapons/ armor and ship parts. Later if you have more cash then you know what to do with buy the Junk. 

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

But you do get more XP and levels from sinking them, which is quite handy too.

 

The loot is really a non-factor though, so people should do what they prefer. 

 

 

 

XP is also a non-factor and like I pointed out, you can shoot their sails and then board which results in enough xp to rank most crew to 3-4 stars in under a handful of battles. 

 

By endgame coin is meaningless, yes. But early game having an extra 30k by not investing in a junk is quite handy to equip choice kit. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by PIP-Clownboy