JerekKruger

On the one hand summoned weapons were very powerful in Pillars and, with multiclassing, would have been even more so, so making them less powerful seems reasonable. On the other hand, in their current form they are (I think) too weak. Even the Priest's Spiritual Weapons, which are pretty powerful, are severely handicapped by their long cast time. I also think Obsidian missed a trick by not making summoned weapons scale with spellcaster power level (instead they scale with character level). Had they done this there would have been a built in weakening of them when wielded by a multiclass character and thus less need to nerf them to deal with this change. Moreover it means that the Conjurer hardly benefits from their increased power level when casting these spells (they gain increased duration to the already plenty long enough duration of them).

Exactly. It kind of ruins the importing system if my characters have to change fundamentally to fulfil the same roles they were before. Small tweaks are fine, but something like this change is just too much.

Exactly. There was no need to talk about something that we liked and that, as far as we were aware, wasn't going anywhere. Now it's under threat of course we're going to become more vocal.

So if you're willing to invest five talents into it you can get +30 accuracy? That's quite a lot, though whether it's worth five talents is debatable I guess.

People have given reasons, those reasons aren't convincing to me and, presumably, others who are against the change. Wow, you really do have an impressive knowledge of other peoples inner thoughts and motivations When you have to resort to "I know most people agree with me" and "the people who disagree with me are being dishonest" it's time to admit your position isn't as strong as you'd like others to think it is. As Sedrefilos says this is largely a matter of preference: some people disliked Might governing spell damage and would prefer something more traditional, others like what Obsidian did with Might and want it to remain. Neither side is right and neither is wrong and, ultimately, Obsidian will have to make a decision one way or the other. I just want to make sure they're aware that there are people who liked Might, since until this change only those who didn't were vocal.

Why? I love it when people make claims about being in the majority when they can't possibly know that. Also what personal stake could we possibly have? Shares in the Great Might Company? We have a personal preference yes, as do those who prefer the new strength/resolve system.

It's not about whether or not you can change your imported character's attributes, but whether or not you want to. Obsidian themselves couched the Might/Resolve change in role-playing terms, and from a role-playing point of view I dislike the idea of my character's core abilities changing if they are to carry on fulfilling the same role. Yes, it's a feel argument rather than a hard mechanical reason why the change is bad, but that doesn't make it invalid and it certainly isn't any less valid than those who didn't like the idea of Might governing spell damage.

Josh has said they're thinking of other ways to change Resolve so Might may not be as gone as you hope, and as someone who hates the new Strength/Resolve system I very much hope it isn't.

Why does being strong willed make sense for increasing spell damage? Why doesn't Might? And now it's mechanically impossible to create a wizard with good damage who has poor willpower. So long as there is a stat governing spell damage, damage dealing spellcasters will be forced to pick it. Also for the millionth time: Might isn't strength. This. Had Pillars had a similar Strength/Resolve system I wouldn't care, but I want to carry on the story of my Watcher and having the change their attributes ruins that for me.

Not really, particularly not when you consider the importance of souls in the setting. And that makes it stupid why? And it makes sense that a Wizard with high Might would be mighty.

Indeed, that's why I suspect it was done to please the anti-muscle wizard crowd.

Agreed and subbing to this thread.

I really don't like the change and I can't help feeling that it was made to pander to those who don't like "muscle Wizards" even though Might also covers spiritual strength in Pillars. The patch notes state that: Well guess what, from a roleplaying perspective it absolutely sucks having to completely change those fundamental characteristics (attributes) of my imported Wizard in order to have her fulfil the same role they did in Pillars. You can't please everyone, so stick to your original novel concept of a generic Might and find another way of making Resolve tempting. Who knows, you might even find a way that avoids Strength/Resolve being dump stats for Spellcasting/Martial characters respectively, and wouldn't that be better than the current situation where I now can't make an effective muscly Wizard even if I want to. As for non-feely arguments, Hieronymous pretty much summarises my views perfectly. I don't actually agree with the OP, since Resolve is a dump stat in Deadfire right now and was probably the most dumpable stat in Pillars too.

For +8 armour?

Yeah the two go well together even without the Confusion removal of the Paladin. I think in general martial/martial multiclass characters seem to work very well.

I like Berserker/Bleak Walker (or indeed any Paladin) for the simply reason that I discovered that it could remove the main downside of the Berserker's Frenzy completely through a passive ability.

Have you ever met good shot put, hammer or discus athlete? They are strong. Athletics isn't just running and jumping. Or for that matter a good higher weight class wrestler. Their sport might not come under the standard umbrella of athletics but to say they aren't athletic would be doing them a great disservice, and they are also brutally strong (even the lighter weight class ones are very strong). Moreover a typical sprinter spends a large proportion of their time lifting weights and, whilst not as good at it as a weightlifter, they are generally very strong. Strength is a key component of athleticism.

In Deadfire? Intimidate or Athletics (depending on whether it's physically intimidating someone or using your physical strength to move something heavy). From what we've heard there are going to be very few attribute checks in Deadfire. Most have been replaced by skill checks.

Priests and Druids didn't have this restriction, and Wizards didn't automatically know all spells (though they would usually end up with almost all of them through Grimoires eventually).

By having every stat be useful for everyone you ensure that lowering them comes at a cost. As far as I can tell that achieves exactly what you describe. Note that dump stats doesn't refer to the tendency for certain players to reduce stats down to their minimum, it refers to the situation where some stats provide no benefit to certain classes and hence can be reduced to minimum with no cost. I have no problem with the former, so long as there's a cost, only the latter. I assume you meant to add "is ridiculous" but (a) Might is not muscle mass and (b) how much damage your spells do needn't have anything to do with your ability to read and absorb information. How is it not a separate game mechanic. Or equivalently, how are other stat systems separate game mechanics? D&D is immersive? News to me.

How did you manage that?

Agreed. Other than some clunky dialogue options that equated Might with physical strength (a problem solved in Deadfire by having skills like Intimidate) this was never a problem for me and was an interesting feature of Pillars. I don't agree. It's a big problem for me that my imported spellcasters will have to suddenly change their fundamental physical and mental capabilities if they want to keep the same role they had in Pillars. If the system had never been as it was in the first place it would have been fine, but now it just makes Deadfire not feel like a sequel to Pillars. I really hope Obsidian change their mind on this and go with another solution to Resolve being a dump stat (which it still is for non-spellcasters by the way, and for spellcasters Might is now).

If Crowns for the Faithful remains +25 Resolve then maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a tier 3 Resolve Inspiration i.e. +5 Resolve and some other bonuses.

I don't like dump stats and I liked that PoE tried to make every stat useful to every class. This change is going away from that and that is a mistake in my view. It's also removing something unique and interesting about Pillars because some people don't like the idea of a strong Wizard (even though the strong aspect of Might is already being removed in dialogue checks).

In of itself this isn't a big deal, though I wouldn't have minded seeing a few others: holy symbols for Priests, instruments for Chanters.