Bulgaroctonus

Not hard? I call BS -- unless you've actually got a logical way to delevel R and E that isn't incredibly lame. If so let's hear it. (Used to see ideas for that sort of thing in BG3 threads. They all sucked) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd say you'd have to play as the Exile at least to start. Either way, I think that if one were to play as the Exile, it would be relatively easy to explain way why the Exile has lost most of, if not all of his force powers.

I think its a continuity problem. HK was made during the Mandalorian War, because there was no Mandalore between the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars. Esok on Dantoonie says that specifically. Besides, how could HK enter "Mandalorian Space" if the Mandalorians have been crushed?

I got Visas to go from Evil to Light Side Mastery the moment I converted her. It helped that I had high Charisma and was a Jedi Master.

You can't fall in love with Bastila. It not right. You can't do that to Revan (who basically must survive). Though where are all these force sensitives coming from? The way I see KOTOR III, I don't think it can take place much after KOTOR II, because there was definately a sense of urgency to it. Why else would Revan send the Ebon Hawk back to find allies if the fight wasn't becoming imminent? I personally think it would be interesting to play as a force sensitive Mandalorian, sent by Canderous/Mandalore to do something, only to encounter Jolee/Bastila/somebody who realizes their potential begins them on a path that will eventually lead to the player uniting the Mandalorians and Republic in preparation for the return of Revan and the Exile and the inevitable war with the True Sith.

My only issue with this the whole Jedi Academy thing. Let's think about it. When the Exile leaves to join Revan, his followers are nothing more than "children with lightsabers." They are not Jedi. Unless Jedi masters start coming out of the wood work to start teaching them (and remember, nobody even knows what happened on Malachor V. For all anybody knows, the Exile died at the hands of Darth Traya or Sion), they aren't qualified to teach anybody anything. Even with 5 years under their belt, without training they won't become anything but force wielders. The only true Jedi Knights/Masters we know to be alive are Bastila, Revan, and the Exile. And if Revan and the Exile went DS, then we've only got Revan (because only he truly understands why he is doing what he is doing, and is not fully consumed by the dark side). Jolee and Juhani might also be hanging around, but we don't know. Jolee is gonna be too old if KOTOR III is 10 years after KOTOR. He'd be at least 70. At least. Also, going back to rebuilding the Order, I think Kreia's prediction is based upon the fact that Revan and (possibly) the Exile are going to return from their war, defeat the True Sith, and rebuild the Jedi Order as it should be. All the current Masters are fools. Only Bastila, Revan, the Exile, Juhani, and Kreia truly understand what it means to wield the force, and the temptation of the Dark Side. That was the clear failing of the old order, it's ignorance of the Dark Side and its unwillingness to do what must be done. Thus it is that of the 3 or 4 who are still alive for KOTOR III, then those are the ones who will train the followers of the Exile, for they are the ones who must build the order, and the followers will be the foundation of it.

I'd say Revan would be best suited as Soldier--->Sentinel----->Jedi Master It blends builds up strength and skill, and tops it off with lots of Force powers and lots of Charisma and inspiration Exile: Scout----->Guardian---->Watchman He is much more of a soldier than Revan. Revan is an almalgamation of all the Jedi traits, while the Exile is more of a fighter. Revan is the Supreme Commander, overseeing all, while the Exile gives orders, but at the same time, has to fight.

I'm pretty sure Mandalorians are humans, except mean, tough, and generally badass humans.

According to Wikipedia, the "canonical" ending for KOTOR is a LS Male Revan who falls in love with Bastila and saves her from the Dark Side.

No you see his helmet come off and roll around on the floor. You know his head must be in there but you dont see his head come rolling out of his helmet just to prove the point. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you are attempting to argue that we don't see Jango Fett be decapitated? If you are, then you are no longer arguing a point, you are arguing for the sake of not being proved wrong. How about Luke in the cave. Vader's head is chopped off, and we do see a face come out of it, to emphasize the point..... Fact is, nothing that isn't in that ending is any more graphic than what we have seen already.

What about Jango Fett? We see his head lopped off and rolling aroud on the ground for Boba to pick up. And we also get to see his head-less corpse slump to the ground.....

I knew I wasnt the only one! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That makes three of us. Then I started to think that Nihilius was Revan.

I went Sentinel/Jedi Master, and I just ruled everybody. I just wanted the influence over the other people.

For me, that would make any game perfect. A Jedi-Knight ceremony or a Sith-Knight ceremony. It'd also be a great ending to the KOTOR series. Of course, it'd have to be an interactive ending. No scripted endings for us. (Or maybe it would be the start of the game - you get knighted and sent on a quest. How medieval) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, the whole possibility of an end sequence where you are knighted shakes my belief in the need to have the PC be Revan or the Exile. It would be truly fitting to have you be knighted by one of those two (assuming they went LS). You would be the first Jedi of the new Order, destroyed by the Jedi Civil War and the Kreia/the Exile. It would be very fitting indeed.

Well then, we are agreed.

Then Roma, I suggest that we form an impeneratable force of historical knowledge on this thread. Though I would dispute your claim that that the idea of Emperor never changed. While the concept conveyed by Augustus was very similar to your definition, I would find it very difficult to argue that the concept of what is effectively rule by a "First Citizen," remains throughout the Roman Empire. For we do see a concerted attempt by men like Nero, and very specifically by Diocletion, to illustrate the differences and importance of the Imperator in regard to the common people.

I'm pretty sure Vandar and Zhar are dead. As for the third Twi'lek, I can only assume he has also died, as he is never mentioned in either game, except when you talk to him.

See, that's why Revan must survive. He must become the leader of what is in effect, a new Jedi Order. All the old guard is dead. Only the Exile, Bastila, and Revan remain of those who were trained in the old ways. It is up to those three to reforge the order and save it from the failings of the old one. Without Revan, that guidance is gone.

I guess that was a compliment. Stop trying to justify it. I called you on it. **** happens. The fact is, you did NOT use it as anything other than an insult, and then attempted, weakly I might add, to claim it was not an insult, and his defense of himself was in fact proof of your assertion that he was indeed a fanboy. It's a circular argument that has no objective support, and would not stand up in any reasonable discourse. And so we can be clear, I am simply arguing the merits of your logic, not your point in general.

That is the worst logic ever employed by anybody, anywhere. A good analogy of that might be you say "Those ****ing Jews are running the world, and deserve to be exterminated." I call you an anti-Semite. You then respond that since I have criticized you about a blatantly anti-Semitic remark, then I must, as a consequence be Jewish. Which I am not. The simple fact is "fanboy" is never used as a compliment, and is used by haughty people who feel somehow superior to other people. He's right to take it as an insult, because I highly doubt you meant it any other way. And I am fully ready to be accused of being called a "fanboy," because that's what your "logic" entails.

[quote name='Roma

Thats what I always do. Lightsider with DS powers. Just give yourself a high charisma and you are all set. The penalties get greatly reduced, and you can wipe the floor with just about everybody.

He's a wound in the force because he has no connection to it. Like the Yuuzhon Vong. They aren't connected to the Force. Neither is the Exile. He only become connected when he comes around Force sensitive people. That is the nature of his bond. Not a near physical link as was with Bastila, but like a mosquito, feeding off the force abilities of others. The Force drives all things. There is no free will, no luck, nothing, there is only the Force. That is what is meant by the death of the Force. The Exile is not controlled by the Force as all others are because he is not connected to it. He is able to do whatever he wants, not what the Force wills him to do. Thus, if he is able to do whatever he wants by cutting off his connection to it, Kreia hopes he will serve as an example to all, that the Force can be eliminated from the galaxy by severing your connection, and creating your own destiny.

I think Revan as a lightsider with the armor would be just as good as a DS. Revan was wearing the robes even before he "fell" to the Dark Side. Maybe just give them a different color, not as sinister looking.

Okay, as I understand it, Kreia doesn't really form a bond with you, you form one with her because you are a force sensitive, and you connect strongly with all the force sensitives around you. That's what allows you to reconnect to the force, simply being around Kreia. I don't think it's a Force bond like we saw between Bastila and Revan. Second, you are not bound to the force, you have no connection to it, thus you forged your own destiny, symbolically destroying the command the Force has over everybody, because if you can do it, then hypothetically, everybody can. Thirdly, Kreia doesn't want to learn about how you can kill the force, but rather want to use you to destroy her former pupils.

I do see both sides of the argument over what he said. He might be saying "Well, you said the game was good, be ready to stay in the ranks of the minority." As in everybody and their brother is going to start bitching. But if that was true, then he might have said something a little less flippant, and more clear. I'm going to err on the side of "I WANT THE DAMN GAME FINISHED YOU BASTARDS," and say he believes the game was done.