Gromnir

am gonna concede that quoting wikipedia is a pet peeve of ours. if henry kissinger or the Pope quoted wikipedia definitions or "evidence" to us we would heap nothing but scorn and derision 'pon them. if mother teresa were still alive, we might give her a free pass, but our understanding were that she had no personal property save a bucket and one change o' clothes, so we thinks that the internet might be a bit outside her comfort zone. furthermore, the whole living saint angle would make us back away from our typical, "quoting wikipedia deserves a steel-toed boot kick to the head" response. hmmm... we might expand the free-pass list beyond the Pope and henry kissinger, if given enough time. mike ditka? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYJrJO25BD4 HA! Good Fun!

Good to know there are still some people that have something to bring to the table, good to know that you have so much repect to us that you didn't even bother to say something that whoud show us, what to you think about "Non-linearity" how it looks in you opinion etc ... we have... literal dozens of times. many people on these boards would consider our posting on the matter to be the equivalent of spam. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

IWD1 Rangers using bows were more broken than anything in BG1 IMO disagree. bg1 excessive bow powha was a topic discussed on the iwd boards as a matter o' fact. a bg1 fighter with grandmastery in bows would make any iwd ranger build look like a child wielding one of those plastic toy bows with the suction-cup arrows. the howls o' anguish that inexplicably rose up from the bg bow fans were defeaning when they understood that bis were nerfing bows. HA! Good Fun!

non-linear story in a crpg is a myth. multiple paths is not actual non-linear, but am s'posing that is semantics. HA! Good Fun!

we have faith because faith is, in point o' fact, unnecessary. you can't be this slow on accident. there is no calculus needed to balance, no algorithm or ad hoc methods spawned from an attempt to make sure stealth or diplomats get enough xp. no faith is required, because no balancing occurs. Gromnir has faith that the obsidian developers will never drown in a pool o' balancing because they will necessarily never attempt to swim in that pool. congrats. as for strawman, we never said that the system that obsidian will implement will create fun. that is your strawman. xp is an abstraction. exp is a measure that allows us to eventual level. you really need a copy o' Copi. we ignored the noise. "Do you understand that Gromnir? I'm not arguing with you. All the things I've wanted to say have been said. At this point I'm just enjoying watching you flail around in your sad attempts to defend a system that you seem to be irrationally attached to." and Gromnir is enjoying you continuing to make yourself look increasing foolish. if we is both having fun, so much the better, but your fundamental inability to play the game is resulting in diminished returns. if we could train you to tip your little fez at the end o' your jig, we could perhaps make this organ-grinder performance earn us some money, but we can't even teach strawman to you, so that seems unlikely. HA! Good Fun!

"Your responses seem to suggest you have a lot of faith in the developers to implement their chosen systems in a way that will lead to you having a fun time with this game. Some of us don't share that optimism, or are at least much more wary of this than you are." you should never be able to claim strawman. ever. you use like an automatic weapon, but then claim others is using, and is typical wrong doing so. we have faith that quest xp is balanced and simple. the reason we have faith that the developers will implement balanced and simple is because it requires 0 Faith. it is the balancing system o' xp that requires no faith because it is requiring Zero balancing. PoE will give you enough xp to reach level 10 or 11... am not recalling which. developers is spreading out so that you get that xp in relative even increments basd on QA gameplay. so, yeah, if you is honestly disturbed that you is not getting xp in dribble amounts o' 10s, 50s and 100s xp denominations that is fundamentally more difficult to balance than quest xp regardless o' fact that you will get approximate same amount o' xp with quest xp during similar amounts o' gameplay time, then we has little sympathy for you, and we believe you is deluding self regarding what you think is fun. you will have similar opportunities to level and improve your character regardless o' quest xp implementation and you will be getting same xp regardless o' how others play the game, but simple failure to see ticks o' 10xp, 50xp, and 100xp will reduce fun? fine. is good to know. Gromnir Does have faith that even the more incompetent developers could use the considerable resources that would go into the ultimately pointless balancing attempts other than quest/task, and use those resources to improve the game in a multitude o' un knowable and non-specific ways. you don't believe balancing is actual necessary? is a pointless observation. is a major goal mentioned many times as part o' oriiginal kickstarter and since that time, so effort will be expended to balance. choice therefore becomes infinitely simple: do you want the developers to spend a tiny fraction o' resources on balancing xp rewwards that will result in perfect balance, or some other far more respource intensive system that will by necessity end up less balanced. you simply cannot make a more balanced system than quest/task, because it complete ignores the balancing calculus. that being said, yes, if the ticks o' 10s, 50s and 100s o' xp is essential to your fundamental enjoyment o' the game, as peculiar as that is striking us, then we understand your need to argue... though we again, find your timing... amusing. HA! Good Fun!

Now that you mention it , I do feel that seeing the XP values pop up after kills in the Infinity Engine games, served as performance feedback in a way. Not just in a "And another one bites the dust, good job, here have a gold star!" kind of way, but slightly more meaningfully - as in: "Oh wow, that monster gave 10,000 XP? Now I don't feel bad about having spent so many limited resources (spells, scrolls, item charges, potions, health) in this fight -- it was supposed to be that hard. Gotta remember the tactic I used!"or conversely: "Oh, only 200 XP for each of these monsters? Then I guess there must be an easier way to kill them than how I just did it. Next time I meet monsters of this type, I gotta remember to try out different weapon combinations or spell tactics..."So getting the kill XP might not be fun in and of itself, but it is also not completely useless. Although in PoE, the bestiary probably already covers that... (PS: Did I mention I love the bestiary? ) keep in mind that tougher critters will likely drop better loot and may even be part o' a quest resolution. get quest xp for dispatching the ogre serves purpose you were asking for yes? after all, it marked resolution o' a quest, so you know very well that the ogre is significant. am betting most special critters will be tied direct or indirect to quests. killing significant npcs will also be likely to have'em drop loot. drop dirty rags = pathetic foe. drop Excalibur = significant. *shrug* am doubtful an xp award is or should be the defining measure o' success and significance. HA! Good Fun!

--the only xp question we have is: why are tasks and quests disappearing from our log? the game is designed to get you to level 10ish (maybe it were 11... don't recall) or so. if the QA guys are actual reaching level 10 and they is gaining levels at predictable and relative stable increments, then we got no idea what possible xp queries we could possibly think o' that would be at all meaningful. -- how does interrupting work, and how is Gromnir 'posed to recognize if we is successful interrupting? there are TWO abilities that are intimately tied to interrupts: resolve and perception. nevertheless, we has no idea when we is interrupting and we only have a slight better chance o' recognizing when we has been interrupted. -- are priests intended to be the only healing class? this game has a plethora o' classes and many unique new casters. unfortunately, the priest appears to be the only healer. unfortunately, this would seem to require that if we have a priest in a party, he/she needs almost by necessity, be a healbot. -- is there an obvious way to recognize which foes are affected by debuffs? combats can turn into a Charlie Fox very quickly, and one wood beetle looks very much like every other wood beetle. if Gromnir uses marked prey on a wood beetle,is there some kinda obvious visual indicator for letting us know which wood beetle is suffering from marked prey, or any of the other multitude o' possible debuffs? --am getting that talents is few in number at this point, but is there a reason the talents we do have is so enigmatic. congratulations, our ranger is now proficient with peasant weapons. okie dokie. what does that actual means? --why is the character record sheet not more dynamic? we change weapon load outs and nothing on character sheet changes. is it better for Gromnir to dual wield stilettos or use that fine arquebus? no matter which weapon load out we activate, our character record sheet revels no changes to inform us o' differences in accuracy or any other possible changes. --are bears s'posed to be so bad arse? State o' Maine is doing ridiculous damage compared to our boar, wolf or stag... also, there doesn't seem to be a way to activate animal special abilities for those that have them, is this intentional? --the combat log, even when maximized is very brief. scroll up to max is maybe revealing two actions per party member. this is woefully insufficient. is it possible to save more detailed text logs into a PoE file we might review after combats? -- at what point are we going to see more talents? even sucky talents is worth seeing 'cause then we could say, "those talents suck. do it different." the current ability points is admittedly diluting the relative diversity o' class builds. so, when can we start seeing more talents, talents which we hope will expand diversity. we got many other queries, but no sense getting greedy, yes? will wait to add more later. HA! Good Fun! ps one more query before we forget... pixel hunting for rare plants? really?

(quote system died on us again) "Gromnir, why does it have to be "as simple and straightforward to implement"? "Surely, when designing a game, the developers should start by asking "What will be most fun and rewarding for players?", and not "What will be the least amount of work for us?"" "Note that I'm among those who are fine with the PoE's XP system (although I also enjoyed how XP was handled the Infinity Engine, with the exception of XP scaling in IWD2), so I'm not trying to be combative, it's an honest question." answer: scroll up and read josh quote as provided by indira. balancing a system of xp awards is notoriously difficult on developers and QA. quest xp balances by not balancing. quest and task xp takes the whole complex mess of coming up with a calculus that appropriately awards for various tasks that will have admittedly startling different frequencies of usage and functionally solves the extremely difficult problem of balancing proper xp awards by taking the balancing completely out of the process. developers make certain that there are opportunities to be stealthy in the game, they make lockpicking useful and rewarding. they provide options to utilize diplomacy and/or guile. the developers obviously don't need to provide an appropriate number of combat encounters as there will be more than enough of those, but they must still need makes combats engaging and varied. however, quest/task based xp does not require the developers to find any proper balance or formula for awarding xp in an ad hoc manner. actions do not have an xp value even if developer must still be conscious of whether or not particular skills are reasonably useful and fun. getting xp is not, in and of itself fun. leveling might be, but not getting xp.... save for in the same way timmy gets his gold star for memorizing multiplication tables up to the 3s place. why am we suggesting that alternative xp system must be as simple and straightforward as quest xp? because simplicity, elegance and unbreakability is among the main positive attributes of quest xp from the prospective of the developer. the resources and effort saved by functionally solving the problem of balance by ignoring it is more than inconsequential and those resources can be utilized to improve the game in many other unforeseen ways. we cannot say specific what the resources is used for in the alternative, and "a lot" strikes us as woeful vague and unenlightened, but the resource savings is some where between yowzah and Boing! so, yes, given that a prime attribute o' quest xp is resource savings, one would expect that the replacement system, particularly in the late stages o' a game beta, would need be equal simple and resource cost-effective to be representing an attractive alternative to the developers. am not being unfair by adding simplicity and straightforward to our challenge... a challenge which still has no takers btw. HA! Good Fun!

This is a fair objection you raise, but even if the story is great. This is a game, and it's clearly built heavily around combat and the level progression for your roleplaying character revolves almost solely around combat rewards. am confused. what game is you talking about? PoE is specifically not built around level progression as a reward for combats. PoE rewards players for quests and tasks completions and there appears to be the possibility for non-combat resolutions for many/most such quests and tasks. is possible you is actual talking about fallout:tactics however. even so, we wouldn't feel particular bad if xp were granted at the completion o' major objectives on each fo:t maps as 'posed to granting rewards for kills. am recalling the first time we completed the st. louis map, we utilized a scorched earth approach, particular after securing the sniper rifle. the actual mission goal were to save some injured soldiers, but instead we killed everything on the map because the xp were fantastic and 'cause there were so much .50 ammo available if you chose to go ahead and wipe out every mutant. am suspecting that the inflated xp award for the genocide at st. louis is the kinda thing quest/task xp awards seek to minimize. st. louis were also a bonanza for xp if one had the capacity to disarm mines.... which we also exploited shamelessly. every accidentally exploding mine were not only representing lost salvage but wasted xp. good example though. thanks for reminding us. HA! Good Fun!

and so it begins. the sad attempts to distinguish, minimize and otherwise ignore. but again, is not a surprise. we knew from start that quest and task xp would be the mechanic employed to dispense xp awards in PoE. the sudden and irrational shock that quest and task xp is the method actual being employed (admittedly with severe bugs hindering its efficacy) is amusing but hardly unexpected. HA! Good Fun!

"All non-combat skills are useful." which won't mean that each use o' a non-combat skill should award xp. "Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count." and sadly, this information won't satisfy the grognards who demand kill xp. am glad elerond posted, but some/many will continue to claim that the current approach is wrong, regardless o' what were promised. HA! Good Fun!

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP Horrible answer, Gromnir. you make 0 sense. if you want us to assume obsidian incompetence to bolster your point, we won't do so. we can't think o' the last obsidian game we played where we didn't get quest experience either. if we simply voided all kill xp and had that xp awarded at the same points we were getting quest/task xp, we would not have felt diminished by the experience. we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds. HA! Good Fun! Wait a minute. Someone who doesn't want XP for kills would not see a map void of XP rewards and quest Objectives as "incompetence". Instead, they'd chalk up the POINTLESS map as "practice for the real thing". Or "downtime because we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds" Or "well hehehe, at least you get loot!" And therefore, there's no reason to assume that Obsidian WILL bother to insert a quest into the Gorge map or other maps like it in the final product. XP-less maps do not contradict the Quest-only design. what are you talking about? is a beta? am expecting many quests ain't complete or available. we have never played an obsidian game with a shortage o' quests, so we don't expect a shortage in PoE. simple need wait quest award for experience boost rather than little gold stars for killing bugs? gosh, how can we possible wait a few minutes to end up getting a lump o' xp rather than little bitty kill increments. and if there is no quests on a map in a final build, yeah, that would be incompetent o' obsidian. have dozens or hundreds o' xp dropping killable mobs on such a map would not make the game better. you are not making the point you seem to think you is. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna serious disagree with sensuki ranger experiences from ad&d and 3e games. the bg2 kits interested us not at all, but at least they dropped the feralan early in bg2 development. ranger in bg were a way to get free dual-wield or functionally cheat a dual-class cleric so a person could get all druid spells... and dual-wield. the ranger stronghold were... ok. nothing special conversely, ie game bards sucked complete and utter... even blades. is nothing a bard could do that some other class or multi-class could not do better, more fun... with one Very important and frequent overlooked exception. bg2 bard stronghold quest were the bestest by far. is the one stronghold the bolstered the main bg2 story as well. what a shame that bards were so complete awful. we liked nwn2 and iwd2 rangers and bards very much. 3e games made skills useful, and rangers and bards gots loads o' skills. bard songs also became important and useful in nwn2. as for PoE all the casters are unique and intriguing and we look forward to playing them... though wizard is least compelling. unfortunately, the priest disturbs Gromnir. is a legion o' casters but only one healer. is making us feel as if the one indispensable caster in any party will be a priest. should be more than one dedicated heals. rogue, fighter and wizard is vanilla... but that ain't bad. no doubt some players will wanna play archetypes, and thus we got 'em. the per-encounter abilities make even the vanilla archetypes more intriguing than the ie incarnations, but am admitting that the per encounter abilities for rogue and ranger is current bugged for us. haven't played paladin, barbarian or monk, but we don't wanna play a monk. watch 5 deadly venoms on late-nite tv? sure, but play monk? no. PoE ranger is very intriguing. am playing high dex and high perception for interrupts. am not certain if our orlan ranger is actual interrupting, but she is hitting about 2x as much as other party members, and our bear is insane powerful with 77 accuracy and damages frequently above 70. HA! Good Fun!

Past experience? There's never been an Obsidian game or an IE game that didn't reward XP for kills. And therefore, you'll never find empty POINTLESS maps in those games because even a quest-void map will contain enemies you can kill for XP Horrible answer, Gromnir. you make 0 sense. if you want us to assume obsidian incompetence to bolster your point, we won't do so. we can't think o' the last obsidian game we played where we didn't get quest experience either. if we simply voided all kill xp and had that xp awarded at the same points we were getting quest/task xp, we would not have felt diminished by the experience. we don't need a gold star every 5 seconds. HA! Good Fun!

not faith. past experience. look back at any any ie game... any obsidian game. check your quest logs from a point where you is 5th level. with an entire world, rather than just a couple maps, am suspecting we is gonna be fighting to keep track o' all the quests. *chuckle* a typical complaint we has in all such games is the ability or inability to ad customized map markers to keep track o' jsut where we need go next and what we hasn't complete finished. is not faith chum, is experience. am betting we finish first play through o' o' PoE and we will have a handful o' unfinished quest with absolute no idea how we missed completing. we got Zero worries that there will be insufficient quests to keep us occupied and leveling. HA! Good Fun!

*groan* am trying to be patient. am not sure what you is tying to achieve with what you think is insightful but is clearly misguided quotes. you will be able to sneak and diplomacy your way past many obstacles and achieve success in may quests. the obsidians don't need tally and balance the weight o' the value o' those skills because all successfully completed quests, regardless o' your solution, will achieve equal payoff. am not certain how to make this any more simple or clear. Oh I don't disagree that your quotes are misguided. In fact I'm pretty sure I was commenting on their misguided nature. More to the point: with a system that rewards XP only for completing quests, you are not guaranteed that your play style will be rewarded. And example is Stealth gameplay. You weren't rewarded for it at all in this beta. Another example, and one you've ignored every time it was presented to you on this thread, is the Gorge map (the wilderness map to the left of the village) Here we have a giant chunk of the beta, a sizable amount of content. But because there are no quests tied to it, there are No XP rewards given out for completing it. now I'm sure this constitutes terrific design and "proof" that a quest XP only system is teh BEST. But someone like me will tell it like it is: Crap. Spending an hour 'exploring' an entire map and the dungeon beneth it and getting NOTHING to show for it, is not ideal. I'm not a content tourist. Gromnir actual has spent more than 20 hours playing PoE without getting any xp other than the meredith (sp?) fight. our quest log is broken. you is making weird assumptions that empty maps and missing quests will be the norm in the final build. if that makes you feel better, so be it. asking for maps with quests is not exactly an argument against quest xp. that should not need be clarified, but it seems it is. HA! Good Fun!

Good advice and much more thorough than what I was prepared to write. However I am giving Obsidian the benefit of the doubt and am suspecting that they are aspiring for the depth and complexity of PS:T when it comes to interactivity. Afterall, I did back this game (and not for an unsubstantial amount of scratch) with the strong belief that Obsidian is going to deliver on their product based on their pedigree and strength of their back catalog. oh, we have same/similar hopes. even when Gromnir has been disappointed by obsidian, we believes they has attempted to achieve interactivity that is beyond what is typical o' virtual any other popular developer o' crpgs today. we may criticize individual obsidian developers and writers, but as a group, we feel they is kinda the benchmark for story-driven crpgs that try to balance in interactivity. though we haven't actual purchased their last couple releases... HA! Good Fun!

*groan* am trying to be patient. am not sure what you is tying to achieve with what you think is insightful but is clearly misguided quotes. you will be able to sneak and diplomacy your way past many obstacles and achieve success in may quests. the obsidians don't need tally and balance the weight o' the value o' those skills because all successfully completed quests, regardless o' your solution, will achieve equal payoff. am not certain how to make this any more simple or clear. as to helm: "If you guys hate combat XP so much, then why did you back the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate that Obsidian promised us? " we will get plenty o' experience for combat, but it will be exactly the same amount o' experience as we get if we snuck past all the spiders and then tricked the ogre through dialogue. ​we all get to be wieners. yay! sart: "Are you saying that for every playthrough of BG2 you always killed every creature you encountered in every instance, always?" and you complain about strawman? *chuckle* that being said, especial if we were close to leveling, we would be more inclined to search out a mob to kill just for the experience Points and not 'cause the experience o' combat were fun. thanks for helping illustrate that point even if it ain't what you were hoping to reveal. "Hopefully that apocalypse of horrible game design will not come to pass. As it stands I am not convinced. I'm worried." dear lord. you didn't go there, did you? HA! HA! Good Fun!

it will never be time to bake bread in PoE. hopefully that doesn't ruin the game for you. from the beta, Gromnir is uncertain o' the depth o' reactivity. like all the ie games which PoE professes to be attempting to re-imagine, the games are squad-based tactical combat games with role-play elements. the role-play aspects should be stressed more in PoE than in bg, but to what degree... am not yet certain. recent obsidian games place far greater importance on the dialogues between companion characters and the protagonist than you ever saw in the fallout games, so if that is a positive, you should be pleased. if you are annoyed by needy and noisy companions, then perhaps PoE is the wrong game. the game environment is technically and artistically more than a decade advanced from the last of the ie games, but it is still 2d. interactivity will have limitations. given that it is a 2d environment, some o' these limitations will be addressed via dialogue cutscenes that make stat checks to see if a character may successfully swim across a river or climb a wall or... whatever. the solution to 2d that obsidian has chosen strikes us as rather clever approach. it is worth watching some of the game demos floating around the internet to get a better idea of how characters will be able to interact with the game environment in a rather atypical ie game fashion. am suspecting the game will be story-driven degree, but am getting the impression it will be less so than ps:t... we don't have anything concrete to base that 'pon. have seen very little story in the beta so far. you have time. game won't be out for many months and there will be increasing fan and press previews and demos. HA! Good Fun!

Ok. I'll answer both your questions. Your argument was that the system awards all playstyles. It does not. You cannot solve any quest in the beta by sneaking, for example. When this was pointed out to you bluntly and clearly, you decided to redefine 'sneaking' so that it fits within the definition of another playstyle entirely (talking), and then you proceeded to call people 'silly" and "obtuse" for not "realizing" that the sneaky playstyle is rewarded. see, now That is strawman... please point out to sart as he is confused about strawman. we stated that the developers does indeed try to make all builds viable, but that does not necessarily follow that every obstacle will be surmountable via sneaky or diplomacy or every single skill available. we said that quest xp means that the developers does not need ask how players chose to accomplish goals-- the choice is left up to players, and xp awards do not favor any singular approach. there is no best xp build. there is no right or wrong approach. "PoE is a role-play game that allows sneaky and diplomatic. give xp awards for individual kills, and individual lockpicks and individual whatever inevitably leads to an ideal approach for maximizing xp by making the right gameplay and character development choices. quest only xp avoids the need to devise a fair an balanced calculus. quest is simple and guaranteed to result in every player getting exact same XP rewards for completing quests regardless o' how they chose to complete the quest. "you don't wanna play a role-play game that offers choices? then go play an rts game." HA! Good Fun! ps am thinking you don't fully realize that your example is precisely why quest xp is a superior approach. how does developers properly award stealthy gameplay? what numbers resolutions may be provided to balance with combat? yea, our stealth guy might be able to sneak past all spiders and then outwith the ogre, but how does we proper award xp so is similar to the combat player?with quest xp it is a non-issue. is no problem that needs be confronted as there is no balancing being faced by the developers. players can be creative and find their own solutions and developers need not worry 'bout providing relative satisfactory exp awards.

"But that is because the entire premise is based on a fallacy that I tried to point out to you. No one is cheating you in a game if you choose to play in a way that would give you somewhat less xp as long as that playstyle is still fun." is not a fallacy. if Gromnir is certain that by choosing a certain play style we is gimping ourself out of significant xp or usefulness or whatever, we will be disinclined to play such a build. you are making an assumption. josh also has observed that while fallout allowed near limitless gameplay builds using special, only a handful ever got widespread use. in spite o' the potential for fun, the reality is that there were only a handful o' builds that were efficacious enough to merit playing. is unlikely Gromnir is alone in his resistance to self handicapping, and while we don't know where josh and other black isle/obsidian folks got his feedback, his fallout observations seem to reinforce our belief. and keep in mind that josh is not the Sole Arbiter o' all things PoE. seems a bit silly to suggest that this is josh's choice and everybody else at obsdian is meekly following along. "That playstyle was fun in the IE games. I still play them like that to this day. Once Sawyer got the reigns of complete creative control he chose to implement the systems he prefers not necessarily (that is the key word here because there are people on both sides of this argument) the systems that his players would prefer" another unsupported assumption? many folks, such as Gromnir, felt that the ie system o' xp awards (we mentioned the silliness o' stockpiling scrolls to memorize for massive xp awards) were horribly broken. we could enjoy bg (not so much) or bg2 without approving of the xp award system. furthermore, let us be honest about the ie games (sans iwd2.) ad&d rules and the infinity engine approach to actualizing ad&d made it much more difficult to build a diplomatic or stealthy character. you are setting up a false choice. thank goodness we ain't stuck with mechanics as limited as we had in bg and bg2. if all we had were horrible ad&d, then perhaps you would have at least more o' a point. regardless, you still fail to answer our challenge. is a simple truism that obsidian has a goal o' making all builds if not equally powerful, then at least equal viable and hopefully equally fun. so, "provide an alternative system that is as simple and straightforward to implement as task/quest only xp that will will guarantee that regardless of an individual purchaser's style o' gameplay, they will get as much xp as a fighty, diplomatic, sneaky or whatever else kinda player." you do not see such a goal as worthy? very well, we already stated much earlier that we were at an impasse because o' this. nevertheless, the goal is to provide juice per squeeze for every build. that is a given. so, provide a xp system that provides equal xp that is as easy to implement. am still waiting. "I intend to make sure that Josh knows that this design decision will probably negatively contribute to many peoples enjoyment of this game." ​the codexian grognards came out o' the woodwork during bg3 development and fo3 as well. am finding particularly amusing that this time it is post beta that we is seeing vocal resistance from a the intransigent few. is kinda amusing timing. good luck though. HA! Good Fun!

should make these part o' our signature for the time being: 1) "provide an alternative system that is as simple and straightforward to implement as task/quest only xp that will will guarantee that regardless of an individual purchaser's style o' gameplay, they will get as much xp as a fighty, diplomatic, sneaky or whatever else kinda player." 2) http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67963-backer-beta-developer-impressions/?p=1494610 is gauche to quote self, but what can we do if we don't get actual responses? HA! Good Fun!

keep going. makes you seem so much more enlightened. the relevant aspect o' our observation were that we dealt with the ogre without violence, without killing. you want to quibble over the fact that Gromnir used a denotative correct descriptor that you felt were ultimately misleading? ... why? ... what difference would it make if we solved through stealth or deception or diplomacy if we were contrasting with combat? please, continue. HA! Good Fun!

"sneaky" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sneaky we lied. we were deceptive. we were sneaky. Uh-uh. no, sorry. In a game where Lying/Deception use different skill/attribute checks than Stealth, you cannot group them together as one and claim that they both constitute "sneak" we were cautioned about being rude to you in spite o' you getting sweary and silly... but you make difficult. we said, "our first encounter with the ogre in the caves were solved diplomatically... or sneaky, depending on how you look at it. should we have been robbed of all xp for quest completion because we chose to complete quest other than through violence?" now, explain what is wrong with our observation. you ASSumed that by sneaky we meant stealth. that was an incorrect ASSumption, the fallacy o' the ASSumption made all the more obvious by the fact that we observed initial that our solution were diplomatic. we then added that depending on how one looked at the situation, our solution were in fact sneaky. we used deception. we were not genuine diplomatic but were sneaky and deceptive. you ASSumed and is making a big issue outta nothing. congrats. HA! Good Fun!