Zilod

I bring you truth and you judge me, what arrogance!!! just joking of course always a good thing to have a nice debate and to exchange opinion... as Kreia says the truth come from the confrontation of opposite Or by devs that tell us what they really intended

mmmm thinking on it more and more i'm no more too sure about it. My supposition is not that they actually drain the ones around them but that they use and feel the force around them. Kreia probably have also the knowledge to drain the force as Nihilus (and i think is what she does to the council) but i doubt that the exile is really able to do that. The exile never suffered a real drain, and the ability to consume the force can be learnt only by the experience of such a power. So i think that they generally just draw the force from the ones around them, from the galaxy itself, but, as they will do if they draw it from themselves, they don't consume it as Nihilus does. Maybe the techniques is the same, and Nihilus just lose the control over it, but maybe they are 2 different things, even if bounded to a degree. My supposition is that Revan don't suffered the same fate because he was corrupted. The thing that probably made jedi die was not just the scream in the force, but the corruption energy of Malachor V itself. The jedis had 2 choices in my opinion, if they where strong enought to resist they had to die due to the power of the corruption and the screams in the force, if they where not strong enought they got corrupted. This happened to all the jedi exept the exile that had the strenght, and enought fear , to cut is bound. I think we can also suppose that Revan wanted Mlachor V, that he alredy felt to the dark side and he was looking for an army to follow him. In this case the statement of HK and the words of Kreia about Revan that knew about the power of places of corruption like Malachor V, and the power needed to build them, makes a lot of sense. I'm not too sure that Kreia was in search of balance and stability at this point. When she say why she hate the force she tells also something like that the force strive to balance regardless of the lives that are lost, and this is actually what is happening. It seem to me that she want to give a new beginnin or, as she knows that the force will use everything, herself included, to achieve balance, she want to give to the galaxy an Man that can be an example to the new order that will come, an example for all the galaxy, that is it possible to be complete even whitout the force. Is the council that says that, and they can't see anything whitout the force as they are blind. They probably see you the same way as Nihilus, and the other lords, because they can't see where there is not the force. They can't know you as they can't know Nihilus. they just see both of you as wounds or holes. Atris or Kreia? I bring you truth and you judge me, what arrogance!!! just joking of course always a good thing to have a nice debate and to exchange opinion... as Kreia says the truth come from the confrontation of opposite No i disagree here, Traya is not free from the force and she know that, is also why she hate it. When she ask her why she still use the force even if she hate it, she simply say that she can't. You (and the Miraluka?) are unique, you made a decision that Traya and all other jedis at Malachor V where not able to do. Is not just a thing that can be taught as a technique or a knowledge, is something more deep, a choice that everyone can do. i see it different In my opinion at the end we have a new beginning, as this should be, even by the will of the force. But the Exile can't be simply "the man in the shadow", he is way more important than that, the Exile is not a new Kreia, he is what Kreia probably wanted to be in the end, but not due to his power, but due to what he represent for the galaxy. As said i don't think that the centrality of the Exile is a centrality of power or strenght, but is due to what he represent. A hope for all lifes (as Visas say on ebon hawk)

you have to unlock using the console and the to grab it from the missile

I see it as the fault of the Exile, Kreia say that when she almost kill the Exile that haven't understand what she want and what is him. When she tell that, and asks you about your feelings, Kreia tells also that wars generate assassin and destruction. If you tells her that you want to exterminate the jedi or the sith here that she that you have become just an assassin like all the others and her teachings where not able to give you enlightment but just power to destroy your enemies. Then she speak about the destruction and i think that is blaming you... something like you had the chance to become the hope for the life (as Visas tells you on ebon hawk) but you just become the destruction of the galaxy. The exile is a wound in the force as Nihilus and Kreia, but he was able to cut his bound from the force. Nihilus Nad Kreia can't do that, so they are forced to consume living to continue to use it. You are different, with your choice the force is no more so important to you, you can live whitout it, and fight with your own strenght, and also whitout draining all around you. Kreia says also that make you feel the force again was a mistake, i think because the force can lure you again and become to you important as it was before you cut your bound, i think she have done that because she tought was necessary for you to comprehend what you are and to fight the echoes, but in the end she realize that it was not necessary. Keep in mind that she want to the Exile to come to her at Malachor V, and also that she want you fight with Atris. I really think she is manipulting Atris to force her to fight you, knowing that (expecially if you are LS) you may not want to engage her. She gives Atris reasons to attack and kill you, a menace that will destroy the force, the last obstacle to destroy becose fight the siths and so on, also she want to tell and lure you where she is now, on Malachor V. Is it true that she want to destroy the force and you are the key, but she want to do that with your example not just killing all the jedis and the siths. She also knows that is not possible to destroy the force in a brutal way, again in the academy on dantooine, if you kill the council and tell her that the jedi are destroyed she tells you that for every jedi dead another one will raise. This demonstrate she knows that they can't be cancelled from the galaxy, that is just a matter of time and a new jadi will raise... She want to free people from force oppression, and the only way is to show a path, an example that other jedis in future can follow. __________ Yes for most of the game you have the impression that you manipulate the ones around you, is the council that tells you that you inspired your comprade through the force, and it seem that is mostly like that... but after the jedi council when Visas speak to you she tells something different. You tell her your fears about the fact that you manipulated all of them with the force and she reply that is not true, that the council was blind and have not understood who you are. She tells you that your influence with your friend is not a control of the force, but the natural leadership of a great man. I think that this is very interesting, it not clear all the doubt you have, but it gives you another possibility to understand who you are. The council is blindend by the force, they can't comprehend you, nor she can't explain what they can't know. They see you with the force, the great things you do must be done using the force for them so they can't really explain how you are doing that... if people follow you, they just think is the force that permit you to manipulate them. For them whitout the force you are gimped, can't fight the DS as a jedi, can't see the galaxy, you are half a man, but really they can't understand, they are blinded by the force, by their own power, so they can't accept that all of this is possible even whitout the force.

I think too that Revan was not cut from the force. he have his visions (even if they can be just dreams of his past) and more important Bastila can sense the force in him. I think Revan was just "reprogrammed", hoping he will lead the jedi to the starforge, his absence of force pwer seem to be cause by the fact that he don't remember anymore how to use and feel it. Even Luke for example, even if he is very powerfull in the force, don't know about his potential until he met Ben and start his training.

a lot of nice ideas for planets, maybe i will cut the ones from KOTOR1 that are no more necessary (manaan or the unknow world) and some core "stable" ones (like coruscant) for allies PC Ally's in Kotor 3 (That Join you): Mira (Possible love interest - Male) HK47 Bastila (Possible love interest - Male, Depending on Revan decisions) Canderous Ordo (Possible love interest - Female) Mission Vao (Possible love interest - Male) (mission was my fav char in KOTOR1 but sadly she died in the DS path... grrrrr, so not possible) Bao Dur (Possible love interest - Female) Visas (Unknown if that should be right... Possible love interest - Male, Depending on Exile Decisions) (cheer) The Disciple (sp) (Unknown also) (Possible love interest - Female, Depending on Exile Decisions) Darth Vidor (New character that is a 'Sith Lord' that realizes he isn't a 'True Sith' and wishes to join you to find out the reasons. Possible love interest - Female) (this should be interesting) Master Vorak (The Yoda-like character in KOTOR 1 that many thought died on Miraluka... Counterbalance for Darth Vidor.)(very dead, ) Atris (Unknown if this is right also... But nice plot twist eh? Possible love interest - Male) Solaris Detur (Male Human that is in Jedi Academy on Coruscant that joins, possible love interest - Female) (unlikelly, ) T3M4 Xar'Dur (Part of Alien species resembling Grand Admiral Thrawn (From Books) that was conquered by the 'True Sith') Deja'Nur (Trandoshan that joins after being freed from a slave pen on a 'True Sith' World.) and you forgot Atton Rand and Brielle Atton Rand (Possible love interest - Female) Brielle (handmaiden) (Possible love interest - male)

but he also saved it, also still no reason to exile Kreia, i think that every master had an apprentice or 2 turned to dark side, Zendar(?) was a master of Raven too, but was not exiled. even if revan was DS it doesn't make sense that they exiled Kreia for that reason or they had to exile all the jedi order.

Imo is really a great game, i prefer TSL to KOTOR1 for example. The ending is not so bad, there are missing things, many missing things, but the main plot is safe as i see it. Also is a game you have not to rush, the plot and the main characters are very complex and if you miss important dialogues you will start a chain of WTF? for the crashes i experimented some too, but not many, just 2-3 in hours and hours of playng, and i'm also using an ATI card that seem to have more troubles than NVIDIA witht his game... so my advice is to try to upgrade your drivers, it should fix your problems

[quote name='Roma

[quote name='Roma

[quote name='Roma

For fun i speculated a bit about what could happened before the jedi civil war and to put togather a possible story, in ths version i assume that Kreia is interested in the fate of the galaxy (and don't want to rule it herself ), she is pictured mostly as true neutral, so not as an evil sith lord. The post is quite long and my english is quite crappy, so i apologize from the beginning for some confusion, the errors and a bad style. The last part in TSL is not developed, i put in it just the essential things. Mandalorean where manipuladted by real sith and the war started. Their plan is to weaken the republic but also to break the jedi order, they know that jedis will be forced to enter in the war to save the republic and they know that the corruption of the war will lure them to the dark side. at that time Kreia was probably alredy a sith, she knows that the jedi code is not sufficent to explain the force and searched her answers in the sith knowledge. Her teaching reflected her hunger for the knowledge and her disbelief for the code and all of the ones that where her apprentices where eager to fight the mandalorean menace with Revan, her best apprentice, as leader. The jedi joined the republic fleet and Kreia was questioned by the council who discovered that she felt to the dark side and exiled her. Kreia traveled in the various planets, like Korriban, that where under the "sith influence", planet after planet her knowledge grew, until she stopped on Malachor V to rebuild the sith academy. The republic fleet, helped by the jedi began to repel the mandaloreans, but battle after battle the dark side grew stronger in them. Mandaloreans and Republic fought in the last battle, it was terrible both armies had many casualities and at the critical point the DMG was activated, the death where so many and terribles that the academy began to feed from them spreading dark energies of corruptions. All the jedis where invested by this energy... the corruption, the scream of the people being killed or suffering... all the jedi present where not able to resist, that power was to terrible they had to embrace it or to perish... The exile was invested by this power too, probably even more than most of the jedis, due to the strong bounds he had with his comrades, the power was screaming inside him and he had 2 choices, to die as jedi or to suffer the corruption and to become a sith... He tried to resist but had not the strenght the fear of the death, the fear of that corruption... and here that to survive he was uncounsciosly chose to recide his bound with the force. I think we must consider how important the force is for a jedi, in the game many times is said say that a man whitout the force is gimped, the force sustain the jedi, he see, hear, perceive the galaxy with it, he feel to be complete with the force. Considering that i don't think is too strange that jedis on malachor V that tried to resist to that corruption prefer to die instead to leave the force. Is it also possible that the Exile was uncounsciosly trying to estabilish bounds with most of the creatures around him, to try to face the corruption and the screams inside him. When the Exile recided the bound with the force here that an hole in the force was formed, that hole, who is the exile himself, absorbed the essence of the ones bounded with him... most of them died but 2 survived (possibly 3 considering Kreia) Sion was a in a ship that crashed on Malachor, his body was destroyed, but due to his pain and hate, fuelled by the dark side, he was able to survive bot to the death and the drains. Nihilus was a jedi at malachor too, his link witht he exile was probably very strong, when his essence was drained he was instinctively able to drain the ones around him and so to survive. I suspect that even kreia was touched by the hole, i think she is one of the echoes and she knows the draining technique. Also this could have been happened when Nihilus drained her. The battle ended with the republic victory, but what happened converted all jedi to the dark side. Revan due to his will was still able to "control" himself, i joined the war to save the republic, and i think that the republic was his main tought even now, even if the dark side was alredy inside him. He met Kreia, his former master, on Malachor, Revan had sunspect that there where something else behind this was, and Kreia confirmed his fear. Kreia in fact knew of the "real siths", she told Revan that there is a sith empire in the darkness of the space and that they are preparing for a war against the republic and the galaxy itself. They saw these sith as a gread menace, the republic is weak now, the jedi order unsure and divided, a strong leaderhip was needed to resist to these sith and here that they plan to attack the republic itself to bring a new order, able to battle these new enemies. Kreia revelas to Revan the existence of the star forge, she knew of its existance and probably saw also the starmap on korriban... Revan find the starforg and build a strong army, he is easilly winning but here that Malak, his apprentice, betray him, revan lose his memory and the plan seem ruined. He kill Malak and slowly some of his lost memories emerge from his past, he remember of the real sith menace, of Kreia and he go to Trayus academy to meet his former master. They speak about the sith and Revan now know that is time for action... he return to his friend, tell them to prepare for a terrible battle and then with T3 and the ebon hawk go in the unknow space. Reached his enemies he tells to T3 to go back with the hawk and to find other jedis or sith to help him in his battle, and to bring them there. During the jedi war Kreia power grew even more, she was touched by the hole but not enought to drain her powers, she saw the Exile recide his bounding witht he force and she know what he is now. Kreia was always in search of knowledge, she want to comprehend the force and the galaxy, she know that both the jedis and the sith have not the answers she is searching. What is looking for is between them, is the knowledge of the opposite, the sith code is incomplete as the jedi one, and only in their contrast is the truth. She see how the force is ruling the galaxy, how it manipulate people, how it prepare the destiny of everyone, but she saw that a man was able to break his bounds, she see that man as a possible instrument to free the humanity from the force, and to bring the truth, but that man have not accepted his destiny, he fled from himself and also now the real sith menace is the priority. She studied the hole in the force, and how it generated echoes like him, she take the 2 survivors of Malachor as apprentices, teaching them the way of the dark side. T3 remember Kreia from the time Revan met her on Malachor, it return there, and "tell" her what Revan have done. Kreia decide to help Revan, she plan to send the most talented sith in her academy and her 2 disciple to help Revan, she know how powerfull is the draining technique and she is sure it will be a great help for her former pupil. Here that Sion and Nihilus don't want to obey to Traya's will, they attack her, with Nihilus draining her from her power. She is wounded in the force, weak, but now she can understand even better how is the galaxy whitout the veil caused by the force, but still she is not able to live whitout it. Due to his knowledge and the drain technique she escape from his former apprentices with the ebon hawk, she she is no more a sith, nor a jedi, now she a wound in the force herself, an echo of the hole in the force becoming even more powerfull than she was before. The 2 betrayer begin to hunt the jedi. Nihilus slowly lose his will, the dark side is guiding him from his passion, from his eternal hunger that can't be satisfied, He destroy most of the jedi, draining their essence and consuming them. He become a force of desctruction, driven only by his instinct and his hunger. Kreia see what is happening, Nihilus is out of any control, his hunger have no end, that seem to be the fate of the echoes, to consume evrything around them, until nothing is left by their hunger. Nihilus and the other echoes have to be stopped, but no one can face them, no one exept the exile. After many searchs she find the Exile, but he is not the man she tought, he is hiding from the galaxy and from himself, unable to see, to hear, fought between his memories about the war and his loss. She decides to take him as his apprentice, to enlight him to make him strong, to stop the echoes that he generated and to know what he really is: an example for the others that will come, a man that can realize himself because is a true man and not a puppet in the hands of the force. the Exile, under Kreia guide begin to know himself, to accept what he have done, to resolve his past, to grew in knowledge and power and to be an example to the ones that will come. He fight and destroy all the echoes the he generated, saving the galaxy from their hunger, he teach the way of the force to some of his companions, that will build a new jedi (or sith?) order. And at last, when he discover of the sith menace he decide to go to the unknow space to help Revan in his war. that's all, sorry again for my crap english, i think that it can fit and explain a bit what could have happened, but all is just speculation, (i had even another "version" with a very evil Kreia and it makes a lot of sense too )

On the Citadel i have 40.08 and 41.something at Nar shadda i noticed that bug too you have to jump at the beginning i fear you lose a bit of time but is the only way to not float around so when the light is green press both "start" and jump

Are you sure you don't have it backwards? Str still determines to hit with sabers unless you take finesse. By just the name finesse implies dexterity. I didn't really miss dexterity for my characters so far. I focused on damage resistance (toughness, master force barrier, master energy resistance plus some shields). I very rarely had them use a ranged weapon. Of course that doesn't mean you can't make a blaster jedi (Mira is a good candidate). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> aaaa true sorry.... really tought it was like KOTOR tht use the standard rules, in TSL they changed it probably to make STR more viable, sorry again and fixing it.

[quote name='Roma

I gave my explanation of Kreia, Nihilus, Sion in another 3D... anyway i really think that both Nihilus and Sion where born at malachor V during the game Kreia speak about echoes of what happened on malachor V and when she speak about these echoes she seem to refer to the sith lords, and Nihilus in particular. It seem that when the Exile cut his bound in the force the essences of the ones he was linked to where drained and destroyed. My supposition is that both Nihilus and Sion where jedi, or force sensitive soldiers during the mandalorean war, they where all present on Malachor V and linked to the exile at the moment of his decision so they had their essence drained but for a reason or another they survived my speculation is that Nihilus was able to instinctively leech the essence of the ones around him to survive, while Sion fueled his power by his own pain (but this is really just a big speculation) They slowly recovered and became apprentices of darth Traya. I think that the idea that they where alredy Kreia's apprentices is interesting. I suspect that darth Traya too was at Malachor V during the battle, but can't say if she suffered a similar fate. I'm quite sure she is an echo too, but maybe that was caused when Nihilus drained her years later. about Sion shattered body my theory is that he was on a ship that crashed on malachor or maybe was directly exposed at the effect of the "dark big bomb thing" that almost destroyed his body, but was still able to survive due to the pain/dark power and the drain essence thing.

the power of Nihilus is not the power in the force of a sith like it could be Revan, is not the ability in the sabre as it could be Maul. Is power is more terrible and is the power of destruction, is his hunger, he can destroy a planet full of jedi master and force sensitive with hit, "eating" their essence. I really thing that he is so wild, so destructive that i don't think of any jedi/sith i know that can face him (maybe Kreia is the only one but is really just speculation), due to his nature he is almost unstoppable.... but the Exile have nothing to be leached, he is a hole in the force himself, against him Nihilus power is useless and here that he return to be "a man".

every +1 bonus in DEX gives +1 to hit ranged +1 defence every +1 bonus in STR gives +1 to hit with melee +1 to damage melee (no sabres) +2 to damage sabres

lol :D mah i don't think that even to know his past will be appropriate... He is instinct now, he have no more personality, and even to know who he was will not explain what he is... Kreia say that is no more a man, all he was before is dead, he have no more a past, no more a name (it seem the misterious stranger lol ) even when he die he have no more an identity, i think that the Exile was able to recognzie him if he looked under his mask, but the only one that do that is Visas and when you ask her what she saw she tells you "just a man" This is quite a strong statement, and show both what he is really was, but also how he have no more any personality.

Nihilus is mostly just a wild force, an ancestral fear, a destroyer that can't satisfy his hunger, i don't think he can really be a villain, is a wild beast that kills for instinct or a storm that destroy everything around him. For these reasons i think that his role in the story is appropriate, expecially considering that is Kreia that is playing the game, not Nihilus os Sion. He is something that have to be destroyed to save the galaxy, but is like a puppet in the hand of Kreia. Probably now he is too wild to be directly controlled, but due to his primitive nature is highly predictable and can still be lured and manipulated. I liked to see something more about him too, maybe the destruction of Visas world, but i think that a more persistant role will not be appropriate the character and for the game. As i see the game it is more like a path of enlightment than a war between good/evil.

aaaa that for sure she is so rich, complex, drammatic that part when she enter in the academy to judge the council is great she direct the story and the game itself guiding you in your journey... not to say that i found the actress who give her voice really awesome is sad that we know so few of her past, probably we can speculate on something, but really we can't know what she was and how she acted

i think too that she was very curious about the exile, and also that she knows really well what he really is. My suppositions are that she understand the force, understand what the exile is but have not the strenght to free herself, and she didn't know how it was possible. I'm also inclined to think that she was on Malachor V during the battle and she knows in first person what happened there.

because she hates the force that control the fate of people.

I don't remember the part when Kreia tells that the exile had a greater purpose (LS male, LS revan), To me the power she is talking about in this situation, is not the power to free onselef by the force, but the power of corruption generated by the wars and by malachor V in particular... she tells that the wars generated a power so great that forced jedis to fall or to be destroyed, then she tells about that she didn't know why how was possible for the exile to "turn away" from this powerand from the force, and that now she know it was because he was afraid.

sigh they made a lot of sense have anyone also tried to reproduce the dialogue (forward or backward) at a different speed?