Zilod

I think that the arrogance Kreia is referring to is not to the wrong belief that the jedi can fix Nihilus problem I think that she is referring to the judgment about the Exile, they are so blinded by the force that they can't see, they can't understand but still they comdan the Exile just to protect themselves.

True, but for a game that has Dart Nihilus front and centre on the box, you'd expect that they'd spend a whole load of time building him up to reveal that finally. If they'd concentrated on Nihilus from the start, and focused on his evil, it would have made it all the more interesting when it is revealed that Kreia is the one behind it all. eheh true but that is marketing Nihilus have a great concept and even if it does just an appearence i consider him as a "charming" character with his wild dark power, his endless hunger... i liked to see some more cutscenes about him, maybe when he destroy Visas world. But i don't think i enjoyed a more "active" presence of him... as said is just a card... I don't think this story speak about good or evil at all, i see it as more as a story of passions, of enlightment and illusions, and probably this is why i enjoyed it so much.

I really liked the story, and expecially how the Exile is handled and how Kreia (awesome char) enlight him. I liked the idea of a "dominating force" that subdue humanity "promising" power but controlling the fates and how the exile, that was just a mediocre knight have the strenght and the will to abandon that power to become a Man. I think is really subtle, and many OT considerations can be done about that... (aaaaa i'm a Mission fan too that sharp tongue blue Twi'lek :cool:)

Nihilus and Sion are just pawns on Kreia's board, she conduct the game, not the 2 siths.... ok Nihilus is a bit difficult to control as is just raw instinct, but due to his nature is very predictable and Kreia knows him well...

i think there are really some memorable moments as the game is really dramatic. i'll put on my 3 fav ones... - when you hear the tought of your comrades and expecially Atton "playing" pazaak, i noticed immediatelly that was not right and i think it really shows his desperation. - at the jedi enclave on dantooine when Kreia face the 3 masters, very tragic moment and it also really shows her powers and her true intents. and my fav one.... i liked the final discussion with Kreia at Malachor V but expecially these lines... Kreia: Peraphs you where expecting some surprises, to me to reveal some secret that eluded you, something that will change the perception of the events, shattering to your core... Kreia: There is no great revelation, no great secret, there is only you. not to sey that the actress to give voice to Kreia is really awesome.

imo the story don't take too much in account Malak, buti can't think that he was totally clueless, i'm more inclined to think that his desire for power made him blind, or just he was not able to keep the control of the dark side (as he was not able to control the starforge)

Darth Sun_Tzu you have to write [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] not [ spoilerS ] [ /spoilerS ]

Hopefully these spoiler tags work, here we go! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i hope the spoiler tag will work too eheh

Kreia: even for me best char in the game, deep, complex and passionate... i compared her to Palpy too, mostly for the way she act, her ability to "hide" and her power in the force. I think she is the most powerfull of the 3 also don't know how much we can consider her a real sith lord, as she say about that she was both a jedi and a sith but now is something different. She probably want to destroy the force to free the mankind from its control and that is also very different to the sith perception that is the force that grant power and freedom to the one who use it. Also her "betrayal" can be predictable but i really dunno if it can considered that, there was a point the game that i was quite sure that she where going to betray the character and to take off the cloak and reveal herself as a true sith lord... but gradually during the story i changed my mind and tought about Atris as the sith of betrayal. after finishing the game i'm still more inclined to consider Atris as the betrayer, Kreia never do such act in my eyes, it promise to the Exile to train him, to help him to stop his enemies and she do that during all the game, is a guide to him, even their fight in the academy is a test, the last one that will give to the Exile the knowledge of what he truly is. There i see Kreia as the master that is teaching the final lession to her apprentice and to do that she use the cloak of a sith lord. Sion: a quite standard sith lord but is nothing more than a puppet in the hands ehm hand of Kreia and probably is why we don't see him too much in the game... Is not the bad guy that try to stop you at every move you make, is a test in your training that Kreia use in the right situation. He is not meant to stop you, but to make you grow stronger. Nihilus: A very intriguin character, a wild force of destruction... I assimilated it to the exile for a while and sometimes had some troubles to see the difference between the 2. I see it too as a sort of ghost, of hungry beast, but i don't think it can be considered it as the exile's shadow... i see him as a sort of personification(?) of the dark side, a behing that "awakened" at Malakhor 5, a man that fueled its power with the deaths of the battle. I hoped to see more flashbacks about him, but i must say that i was not disappointed by his weakness... As said he is a force of destruction and that doesn't really mean that he is exeptional strong in the force or a skilled warrior. His "power" is to consume living creatures, but Exile have nothing to be consumed, and whitout that power Nihilus return to be "just a man". I think is also very interesting that Kreia, Nihilus and the Exile actually share the same powers.... both of them can extabilish strong boundings, both of them can leach the force, the main difference is what they are and choices they have done.

I agree about the party characters, i think too that in KOTOR party characters where generally superior. even if TSL have them characterized and the idea to use them directly in some circustamces is very good they still lack something, is like that when you become to get intrigued by them they have nothing more to tell you. said that i must admit that i prefer TSL... the story is much deeper and mature and if the secondary chars can seem "unfinished" the main ones shine for their complexity and humanity. i agree that near the end some minor things are missing, but for what i see the plot is very solid and is one of the best i remember. KOTOR was very enjoyable with it's chars and the good story, but i found in TSL a much more intense, and why not emotional, experience.

I don't agree too much... even in KOTOR Revan was pictured as an hero, he had hunger for knowledge and was strong in the force, but he saved the republic when he joined the war. There are many dialogues about that and i never had the impression that he moved war to gain more power, but really to save the republic or even better, people under mandalorian's menace. There are also dialogues that stated that Revan actually changed during the exploration so he was not everytime a bad guy... I agree that when he returned with the sith armada he acted as a villain and the council/republic consider him evil, but was never pictured like that for his nature, but for his actions... this is a subtle but substantial difference. Actually for all KOTOR (even before the rivelation) i was asking myself... why he/she felt? if he was pictured as a "simple" villain i think i never had such unresolved question.

Finished the game today and i must admit that for some hours i had a strange feeling.... it was the same feeling that i have when i see a great movie and due to the huge amount of informations and emotions i can't decide if i liked it or not... The game is not perfect, probably a bit rushed... it have some unfinished side plots and the secondary chars are generally less developed than KOTOR. The graphic is not bad but for sure not exeptional for today standards and some low res movies/backgrounds looks really terrible. I also noticed very few bugs and with an ATI 9800 and all graphic settings at max i noticed 2-3 crashes in around 50 hours of play... anyway these little prolems really disappear when you see the story and its main characters.... All is so dramatic, full of passion and "humanity"... are ages that i didn't saw a game like that, something that go beyond a game to become a form of comunication, of expression... I really want to tank obsidian for this great product, that even if not perfect, shines like a rare gem. I really hope to see such quality in the story development in the next chapter of KOTOR, and next time throw a pillow to LA and take your time to polish the game again thanks and many compliments for this great game

I plaied both KOTOR mainly as LS and i'm very near to TentamusDarkblade vision, i think it also explain well why a knight like him fell to DS. (TSL do a great job here) I only disagree with the statement that Revan was still good, in my vision Revan truly fell to DS becoming a sith, his intentions where good, and that was necessary for a greater benefit to the galaxy, but is different than to remain good. Revan seem to be truly a tragic character, forced to embrace the evil and to lose himself and he ones who love to "save" the galaxy. In this light i think we should also consider the magnitude(?) of Kreia and the Exile, the jedi civil war, the fall of Revan and of all the jedi with him, all seem to be the result of a tragic destiny, a destiny with no choices.... the will of the force. This is what Kreia is fighting, she is fighting the force, the lack of choice for people bounded to it and here is why the exile is so important, because he actually chose his destiny, a thing that not even Kreia or Revan where able to fully do... He forged his destiny while Revan succumbed to it. I stop here or i will go too much OT eheh and sorry for my english and some confusion.... last thing about Anaking fall.... Exile: Why you destroyed Atris? Darth Traya: I never destroyed Atris, She destroyed herself, i merely stript away the veil of illusions and brought her truth. (ehm dunno if the quote is 100% accurate as my english is quite crappy )

I really liked the game and i only partially agree witht he statement that the main plot have many holes. there are some unfinished things, but are just a pair of side plots. I agree that in the end there is some confusion, there are some missing parts, but again the main plot is still quite solid and you get all the answers you where looking for. During the game i actually tried to gather as much infos as possible from my comrades and others npcs, and was able to figure out what was happening, the story itself is really beautifull and acute.... is not the usual save the princess from the bad big dragon.... is made from lights and shadows and i really appreciated it. Probably it can seem confusing if the game is rushed or not much attention is payed to the events, but i think is more than an acceptable price to pay for a more mature and dark story.

I mostly liked the ending, i have prefered a less dark one for the LS but is just my taste, is also true that there are some unfinished things... In the last dialogue with Kreia she mention 3 possible choices, but actually we don't get them. Goto doesn't want to blow up the planet and seem to stop the drone but we see the destroyed planet in LS ending whitout knowing what really happened there. Mira is another, we see her walk toward the academy after confronting her enemy, but we don't know where she went, we just know that she will survive as Kreia will talk about her. we don't know what is happening on Malachor, i had the impression that the player was almost alone in the ebon hawk when he "landed", with Mira that followed him by her own (the dialogue when Sion ask if the exile is alone and Kreia point that Mira is "after him" due to her ability to find "lost" things) even Atris destiny is obscure, it seem that she died in the Kreia vision and actually she felt and the handmaiden "replace" her as archive historican, but as i spared her life and tried to redeem her it doesn't seem she really died. and there are also some incompleted plot during game, probably mostly due to the cut of the rumored droid planet. I suspect that HK factory and Goto secret base where supposed to be there. I really enjoyed the game, and i think the main plot is well written and "orchestrated", just a bit sad that the game is not developed at full potential due to these "missing stories" and maybe a bit more interaction with "secondary" party chars.

i consider KOTOR and other "RPG" games more as adventures, in a RPG played on paper you make the story, in a "solo" video game this is not possible for obvious reasons. i think you should consider this game more like a good book that tells you the "adventures" of some hero making you immedesimate in it. For sure in a video game the player is more active, expecially in a game like KOTOR where you have to take some key decisions, chose how to behave and so on. Anyway the story is not your, you are not making it, you are following a "road" and the story is alredy wrote. the "cycle" (?) of KOTOR is clearly about jedis, is the way it was tought, as the title itself say, you expect to "hear" about the story and the adventures of some jedi hero/villain as if you go in a bookshop to grab "the hobbit" you will expect to read the adventures of a little hobbit and not for example of elves or ents. i can also agree with you that jedis are not the only characters of SW, there are BHs, smugglers and maybe in future there will be a RPG/adventure even about some other chars, but generally what have caught the imagination of most of people are indeed the force users, their mistery, power, discipline doesn't neem so strange to me that these games put you in the dress of a jedi, is what most of the people want... look at the movies in ep 4,5,6 Luke is an important char, but the story is also about Han and Leia that are as important as him, if you look at ep1 and 2 is all about jedis, all the main characters are at least FS or relevant only because they will interact with a jedi. ok time to stop that is becoming too long and sorry for bad english

ehm what they have to show in movies? most of people await to see the jedi, the new powers and so on i don't see anything wrong if movies or screens are "combat related" For sure i prefer them to a major spoiler of the story that will just ruin my playing experience. My expectations are high about the storyline as it seem the main focus of the devs, expecially as the engine is the same as K1. It also means that probably there will be not some thecnical innovations to capture our eyes, yes there will be optimizations, new cool things and abilities, but in the end will be mostly about it's story and it's characters, that are also the thing that make an RPG/adventure a successfull game. now thanks to Chris Avellone for these Ramblings that whitout spoilers make it easyer to await the publish (i hope there will be also 3 more months of non spoilers ramblings for euro PC users ) just a question. we see that all secondary skills got improved to meke them more usefull and important in the game. In K1 these skill where also useful, but in most cases was just necessary to have the right character in the right moment and use its skills whitout be "forced" to develope the character ones. whitout making spoilers... will the character that chose to develop some skills or to grab a class who focus more on skills (as i think to remember sentinel is) will have some "advantages" during the game like a different way to resolve a problem, more things that only the PC can do (like HK reapir rolls) or will just be more free in chosing party members focusing more on a "group balance" and team cooperation?

chosed LS but i'm very DS tempted... the problem is that DS is generally just the evil choice or at least it was mostly on KOTOR1 i will really appreciate a gradual fall, whitout being strictly evil but more driven by passions and emotions. Some choices like that where also present in KOTOR1 but was so rare and as said the DS choice was generally kill/rob the poor guy that is in need of help. so if the line between LS/DS will not be so marked or be simply a choice between the greatest good and the greatest evil i think i will be tempted to fall, otherwise LS all the life... never liked to be a thug

mmm i don't think that future downloads are so important, in KOTOR1 the additional content was just some new items and a very small area, in my opinion nothing that can really improve the lifespan of a game. if KOTOR1 was good enought to make some people play it many times, was not for this content, but for the story, the characters and the curiosity to try things. also if the producer decide to not "finance" these additional contents we can't pretend that obsidian to work free, this is still a work and to create new contets need times and effort. If the game will have a great story, great character enhancing even more the strong points of the previous chapter, will be a great game, that will not need any additional content, if not, there will be no download able to make a mediocre game a good one.

we must consider that even before KOTOR1 revan had the starforge, but still used to lead his/her fleet, otherwise was not possible to set the trap and capture him. i also don't think that revan could be driven crazy by the SF, from the game it seem that revan never used it at full potential, but more likely at minimun necessary, relying mostly on his/her military genius to win the war. Hint about that is during the final battle of kotor1 when the factory is operating at 300% of expectations. In my opinion Revan had never used the star forge at full because he/she felt the danger in it, with the datas in the temple is quite clear that was the starforge itself one of the major reasons of decline of infite empire, and with all the time that Revan had to study that datas probably was full aware about it. Only devs know why Revan disappeared , some ipotesis can be that he/she discovered a new source of power/threat and was going to investigate it or that sith betrayed him and prepared a trap. About that we don't know how really was the gerarchy among sith, yes Revan was leading the army but that maybe don't necessary mean that he/she was the only sith leader, maybe other powerfull beings (like the lords of the story) decided to give to Revan the command of the army, with the plan to use his/her genius to defeat the republic and then kill him/her and regain the power. In both cases i think is likely that the star forge was destroyed after Revan disappeared, and the lack of power caused an internal war between the sith that weakened their power and war effort. The SW could be destroyed both by the republic taking advantage of the chaos in sith army or by sith demselves with a fought for the factory that ended in it's destruction. just some ideas... and sorry for crappy english

Probably is a bit too early to say if i like them or not as i don't know anything about them and how they interact, anyway from the appearance they seem "intriguin". My only remark so far is that it seem that there are almost no aliens in the party, the only one is the zabrak (who is basically a human with some horns on the head ). In KOTOR1 i liked to have a wookie and a twi'lek in my crew (mission was my fav char :cool: ) and i hope that among the unrevealed chars there will be iconic alien species of SW universe

I fear too that most of out old party members will be dead and/or not present at all in the game... devs stated that most of them where not usable because in the DS path you ended up killing them. For this reason to keep the continuity with KOTOR1 they are probably dead or not mentioned. as to put them in the devs should do a lot of work to put in speach and lines considering all the possible paths of KOTOR1, a thing not impossible but really difficult to happens. quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cameo appearances from memorable characters of the first game enhance the continuity and story flow through this unique time period. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- this doesn't strictly mean that we will see cameos of our old party members, the "memorable characters" can be npcs we met during our quest... the outcasts, mission's brother, bastila's mother and so on... for my taste if i have to chose between to see my old crew dead or not mentioned at all i prefer the second choice... to have them killed in some sith ambush will be very sad and i think will be the same for other "LS oriented" players. Whtiout knowing what happened to them i can still think that big Z is returned to his homeplanet or that missions is smuggling around the galaxy and so on...