Hurlshort

But it is immoral. I'm not sure how you get around that, legality withheld. Someone creates something, they ask for compensation in exchange for that creation, and piracy means you take it without compensation. Pretty simple. The word pirate is used for a reason, it is not a positive term. Because we are dealing with intellectual property, not actual physical goods, that line of thinking is obsolete. No longer valid. Now that your illegal = immoral theory has been refuted, I'd like to see something a bit more solid than "but it's still wrong!" before I take that to heart. "Because I say so" isn't usually accepted as an argument in morality discussions. I never mentioned a physical product for a reason. When the creator of something says, "Hey, don't take this without paying" why does it matter if it is digital or not? And how do you justify that? If you really see that as morally acceptable, I'd say this thread is a lost cause. I also don't remember throwing out some illegal = immoral theory, and I don't see where that was refuted. Finding a couple countries with lax intellectual property rights does not win you a moral argument. It is illegal in most civilized countries for a reason. When you create something, you want that to be safe from theft, whether it is physical or digital.

But it is immoral. I'm not sure how you get around that, legality withheld. Someone creates something, they ask for compensation in exchange for that creation, and piracy means you take it without compensation. Pretty simple. The word pirate is used for a reason, it is not a positive term.

That's because the pirates aren't trying to run a business. Those wonderful do-gooder pirates you seem to be championing did zero to create the product. They have zero investment to protect here. Publishers, despite their many flaws, still make games happen. If all the publishers went out of business overnight, what do you think would happen? Are all the pirates going to band together to release the next big blockbuster title? Publishing is a necessary evil. Piracy is an unnecessary evil. I would love to see the publishing model change. I think it already has in a lot of ways, thanks to innovators like Steam and GoG, as well as alternative sources of funding like Kickstarter. It will hopefully continue along, and as consumers we can help drive that. But piracy is not the solution.

As Gorth said, why defend piracy? Why not just attack DRM? They are two entirely different things, really. Many of us here are against crappy DRM. There is really no reason to bring piracy to the table here. We can boycott products, sign petitions, do one of those Change.org campaigns... As soon as you bring up piracy as an option I think you weaken your entire platform.

Hmm, I don't really skip content, but I rarely get to do the group quests. Are you repeating quests? Doing any space missions? I find I'm right about where I am supposed to be level wise, in fact I typically need to do the bonus series.

I'm not sure what your point is. If you make an order by mail and it never arrives, does it make any difference whether it was due to malice or incompetence and laziness? My point wasn't "either everything works flawlessly or I feel entitled to take it for free", but rather, that when pirates offer a product that is, in fact, better, easier and faster to install/uninstall and use, and more convenient than the original retail, the industry is definitely doing something wrong. Piracy may be more convenient, but at the end of the day it is still wrong. They are offering a product that they have no right to offer. Publishers may be incompetent, they may be lazy, but they are also the ones with a financial stake in the game. They are simply running a business. They might be doing a terrible job at it, but they are not the ones in the wrong here morally. The pirates are. That's why you see people getting rather riled up about this. It is simply an issue of morality, and when you have a bunch of folks trying to justify piracy, your going to have a lot of (typically older) folks calling BS on it.

Avengers was fantastic. I can't help but feel Joss Whedon's writing made a huge difference. Instead of just another shiny action movie with fun explosions, we had some great dialogue to go with it. It really shows how well they planned all the individual movies as well (except Hulk, I suppose) because they set the stage perfectly for this film.

Prove it before calling people thieves and halfwits. I've seen opposite claims. If anyone is robbing people of their jobs it's the publishers who order developers to make ****ty games which don't sell afterwards. If anyone is a thief, it's the elite who lobbied the intellectual property concept. Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

You guys are putting the cart before the horse here. DRM and stupid anti-piracy models exist because of piracy. Using those as an excuse to pirate is not logical.

I don't either. I wish it weren't necessary, but this typically isn't what we are referring to when we talk about piracy. edit: Numbers man didn't say anything about buying and cracking the game. He said:

Did they take the servers down on purpose? I just don't get the whole attitude here. There are quite a few things in my life that I have bought that didn't work exactly the way I wanted. That doesn't give me a reason to start stealing those things. I either deal with, or I buy a different brand, or numerous other solutions that don't involve anything illegal.

I certainly hope that won't happen. We butcher enough history as is - alternative history is usually just an attempt to impose specific interpretations on times and events that just can't be bend enough to peoples liking. I usually try to phrase it as "What would your life be like if so and so didn't happen?" For example, if Charles Martel didn't stop the Umayyad advance into Europe, would Christianity still be the dominant religion in the world? Sometimes it works. It's pretty hard to get a bunch of 12 year olds to reflect on their society.

It's funny, but after I wrote that I read an article about a bunch of DLC and how multi-tiered collector's editions are beginning to become more common. I guess costs are going up!

DRM is a pain and I'm no fan of it, but it's simply the publisher's attempt at protecting their product. It may be misguided, but it could be a lot worse as well. At least the publisher's aren't trying to make up for the fact their products are pirated by charging the paying customers more. Game budgets have skyrocketed over the years and we still continue to pay the same price.

Greylord, I see what you are trying to do here, but a trademark violation really only becomes an issue when you are profiting from it. It really doesn't compare to downloading software and using it illegally.

There is also a huge gap between singing a song and downloading a game illegally.

Finished Act 1 with my bounty hunter in TOR. It was pretty awesome, a very good end to that part of the story. Now I've got my legacy unlocked and I'll start a new Republic character, probably a Jedi Knight.

Vanguard was a pretty decent MMO that had more of the hardcore elements. I believe it is still running today with a few servers.

This xenophobic remark beats everything your american buddy said, congrats. I'm not saying you aren't welcome here. Although if I did, it would be because of your general unlikability rather than any nationality.

True, games are closer to counterfeiting money, since the overhead is so low compared to manufacturing drugs and fake pants. Good point!

So is my inhaler. It is not uncommon in the NHL to get a cortisone shot.

Delfosse, maybe you can hold off on the insults and generalizations a bit? Gifted and mrkreku may be bickering and giving each other a hard time, but they stop at outright name calling. Also given your low opinion of so many Americans, I'm not sure why you are hanging out on the board of an American corporation.

Ah, also a cortisone shot will probably be administered.

Was going at the idea that stealing decrements the amount they have. Not really the case with pirating the game, and is a bit different than slating him as a mugger. Although, I suppose you could consider stealing as getting something for nothing, so may be. The raging on this is always cute though. Bleh, we've argued the whole definition aspect to death enough times already. Let's not get into that. Morally, if someone creates something and asks for compensation, and you take it without paying, you are in the wrong. mrkreku is more arguing about regional conflicts that make it unavailable to people.

Back injuries can be a bit odd, a lot of physical therapy and heat and cold treatments can make a pretty huge difference fast. It's really a matter of working out the knots.