Sacred_Path
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Update thread nees moar Polina.
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Ok, sort of a compromise for you economyfags people. Basic items should be available at most settlements: light armor, non-magical ammunition, basic weapons. There may be a small (most likely not significant) regional difference in pricing to give the semblance of a real economy. Higher tier items are only available at specific locaions; heavy armor and specialist weapons in mining towns, longbows and healing potions in Elven settlements. Your party may still navigate the map in congruence with its material needs, but it's not as arbitrary, it doesn't punish exploration and it's not a balancing nightmare.
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except it isn't. If the difference is significant, you have no idea how much of anything the player will amass at any point in the game. Take healing potions in IE games; their prices are, for all intents and purposes, very similar IIRC, no matter where you buy them. Let's say in IWD, you can predict how many healing potions a player will probably have when descending into the Vale of Shadows. Of course there are ways that screw this up slightly, like grinding for yeti pelts to sale, but this isn't without its own risks and costs (i.e. resurrection). What's more, you can ensure some proper cost-benefit relation when compared to spending that money elsewhere. This isn't exactly easy in a more realistic economy; with a town that can or can't produce healing items cheaply (fresh water supply?), you have to recalculate everything. Take note that we agree the difference should be significant; that means significant per item, not only in droves (as may or may not be more realistic): i.e. in a mining town we can expect armor and weapons and repairs to be significantly cheaper. Signaling this to the players, you absolutely compel them to travel there to fill their armor needs. This will not only in theory be at odds with their other adventuring options, in which case I say again, economic needs shouldn't be the strongest driving force in an RPG. It may be, but it would make for a very peculiar game.
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plz tell me how you will make it small but significant at the same time. That's exactly the crux. Regional differences in pricing will either be so small as to be insignificant or so significant that they're a real hassle/ enforce backtracking. Eh, I never said central narrative. It may be any kind of quest/ event going on in the game. Tracking a murderous beast into a desert environment may be out of the question because your 2 rangers might run out of arrows. For some weird ingame reason, you may be stuck in a city that sells only overpriced healing consumables, putting your melee heavy party at a disadvantage that you couldn't predict (it's not basic geography). And you really think that's more fun than plotting a course because it promises good dividends for adventuring/ your party is well-suited to counter the specific enemies you're likely to meet there? I'd argue that anything that takes place outside the player characters' sphere isn't a good choice when it comes to RPG content. That's why I'm ambiguous at best when I hear players demanding that their characters should have some influence on the gameworld's politics. It's really too meta. "I think my party has garnered a high enough reputation to have some effect on local politics. My characters are also good at lockpicking. I can't wait to see how their lockpicking will affect the grand scheme of things".
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much like romance, "jobs" actually take me out of any epicness that may have been present in a game. It's immersion breaking in that characters seem to have some premonition that they will survive all adventuring to become some kind of respected member of society. "Oh, I'm going to go up against the greatest evil in the world with only my rusty dagger, but I better set up shop first in this little town to finance my retirement". What I prefer is i.e. crafting, mostly of basic items, for sale to supplement your adventuring funds. A ranger may collect wood and craft arrows for sale if he's fallen on hard times, rather than taking up an actual job as a woodcutter. Unless he's a lumberjack and he's ok.
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So no splitting of skill points? **** YEAH
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Combat was real time, and spellcasting could be initiated while paused. Also the chaotic nature of combat would practically force you to go into pause every now and then. I may be wrong, but I believe only Exult has a pause function. Nop. Game pauses when you open your inventory You can give orders to your party members in U7 while paused: engage nearest, go for the strongest/ weakest, flanking attacks, run away. You can also have them use items like potions, food or bandages and change their weapons and I think armor as well. The only thing you can't do is manually selecting a target for them.
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It doesn't really matter what your ingame explanation is; it's a pretty horrible mechanic that punishes players arbitrarily. In an RPG, you're either following a quest route or you're exploring; you aren't chartering a course according to some grand trading scheme. Backtracking for no reason that would further the game is not only a great nuisance to a vast number of players but the insular model of item distribution can cause you to become stuck/ make the backtracking even more unnerving because you're lacking some items that are needed/ helpful for overland travel. Eh, this seems to be a theme with you. Didn't you also suggest P:E would be better off imitating MMO's in that events shouldn't revolve around the player? You're looking for a different kind of game I'd say.
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also pretty horrible. Item X being available cheaper at A than at B is only acceptable if A is only reachable later in the game, which OTOH compounds problems with inflating wealth. If B is reachable later than A that's completely out, because you can't possibly sell "you have more gold now but everything costs twice as much LOL" to a player with any brain cells. Both being reachable at around the same time simply is a chore because you have to monitor your consumption of X when you're at the unfavorable place or otherwise do loads of backtracking.
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You won't have 6 people to care about until 2/3 (?) into the game. Hav fun beautifying your dollhouse stronghold instead Actually, the devs have mentioned there will be many places to recruit companions, and one of the stretch goals was to have a travelers hall to build your whole party from scratch. So it's quite possible you start the game with a full party like you did in the IWD games, and that could lead to tedium. I'm afraid I can't point you to the quote but no, IIRC you don't get a full party from the start.
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I think the same standards that apply to everything about an RPG apply to combat too; #1, is it challenging and #2, is it fun. Kiting isn't challenging and it's only fun for retards special people. Again, the fact that you choose to use proper tanking and tactical spellcasting because you don't want to cheese is your personal preference, not good design.
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Yes, BG1's combat was **** and IWD's was a tad better. That's why I also think that a great dose of nostalgia is required to enjoy their gameplay nowadays - I'm not nostalgic about BG1 so the flaws are just glaringly apparent to me. BG2 and IWDs had my favorite gameplay to date. No nostalgia involved. I replay them evry couple of years because i enjoy their gameplay, so i don't see your point. You also said you didn't use kiting in BG1. That just means you've been wearing rose colored glasses from day 1. The combat isn't exciting just because you choose not to kite, the combat is **** because kiting is clearly superior to everything else.
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Combat was real time, and spellcasting could be initiated while paused. Also the chaotic nature of combat would practically force you to go into pause every now and then.
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Yes, BG1's combat was **** and IWD's was a tad better. That's why I also think that a great dose of nostalgia is required to enjoy their gameplay nowadays - I'm not nostalgic about BG1 so the flaws are just glaringly apparent to me.
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Right. Forgot that this is the trend nowadays.
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I like it. But i would be curious if you have a better example of RTwP combat. You enjoy kiting everything? Because that's the tactical depth in BG1 (not counting mods as we're talking about the original games). I've certainly not seen any RTwP games that do it worse, and RTwP goes back to the early 90s (Ultima VII).
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I'm playing Kiting: Enhanced Edition right now, and while not all gameplay is ****, combat certainly is.
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I'd petition for it to be the other way round. New players will struggle with the character development in P:E anyway due to novel talents and attribute scores, so you'll get smacked around a bit even w/o AI beelining for your casters. I'd rather have the higher difficulties made more interesting because of enemy behaviour. Obviously though stupid monsters should simply have inflated HP and damage on higher difficulties.
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Underrepresented Items
Sacred_Path replied to Cultist's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
It's still nice to have all weapons equally well represented; if your fighter build is optimized for high initiative, medium damage one-handed weapons, and katanas are the most suited for this, then I actually want to use katanas, even if I'm also proficient with longswords and short swords. But yeah between crafting and general loot I don't think we'll be wanting for weapons. -
oic my last point still stands though, I'd rather die by a thousand cuts than having my party shuffling horse manure from Herptown to Derptown in exchange for flaxen gold (for real hair wigs). Again. I've been there, done that (the Might&Magic series was a bad offender in this regard). Of course I'd imagine basic items would be available for anyone, and they would be traded out in the open [market squares]. Only the more exclusive items would be available per faction; therefore they don't need to know your affiliations, other than your standing with them. Health potions are supposed to be rare; I think it would be simply logical to assume all potions are rare, if not unattainable, outside one faction that has the knowledge to craft them (and may also pass on this knowledge in the form of recipes). I'd love to see what being on good terms with P:E's Oswald Fiddlebender may net you
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Unless I try hard to stay in character, I tend to be p. erratic in CRPGs. Chaotic neutral erratic. I think this is mostly because most CRPGs aren't very good at immersing the player and so I just choose my options on a whim.
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We'll definitely see the classical craftsman with a shared workshop/ living area. Travelling merchants have always been in IE games and so I'm certain they'll also be in P:E. I'd be pleasantly surprised if most trading was tied to factions (with discounts based on rank), and this would figure into your choice of allies. And for the love of god, no 'real' trade between specific merchants or regions. I'm going to use dat phrase, "IN NO GAME I'VE PLAYED WAS THIS EVER FUN".
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I think neither Marco Polo's expedition or the crew of a navy ship are valid comparisons, numbers being one thing. The dynamics are simply different in a small group of 6 people max. While it may be more intimate in a way, OTOH no one can really let their guard down while you're a) in hostile territory or b) navigating the seedy underbelly of a medieval city/ prancing about on the slippery ground of feudal politics, and RPG companies tend to be always at a or b. I think where my example falls short is that, with adventuring companies, they make their own rules, i.e. no one tells you that you can't have sex or hold hour long discussions of your traumatic past. They could do that. I think time is a critical factor; most RPGs don't have a timed main quest. You can take all your sweet ass time. I guess that when you are whiling away the time resting in a grove for days, some romance may start to blossom. But this is usually at odds with the story; you're supposed to get somewhere or someone, or else. Drastic consequences etc. That's why I find it so irritating when all of a sudden, someone's petty private life takes center stage.
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o rly? The thing that comes closest to this is soldiers in the field, so it would be interesting to know what their behaviour tends to be like in this regard nowadays, where men and women often serve together. Do they foster romances? Do they even tend to have sexual relations with each other? Do they tend to drift off into deeply emotional discussion? Unless these questions are answered and someone can tell me why this is also how it should be in RPGs, I'll continue to view CRPG romance as highschool fantasy roleplaying.
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You won't have 6 people to care about until 2/3 (?) into the game. Hav fun beautifying your dollhouse stronghold instead
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