Osvir

Well then it's a good thing nobody was advocating for mature themes "just for the sake of them". Honestly this is such a straw man. I've been seeing that word floating around in several forums and I've been wondering what it means. (Please explain it to me if I'm misunderstanding it, jezz555 looks more like a straw man comment/input when I look at the wikipedia explanation to be honest... was that what you initially meant?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I can't see anything in mcmanusaur's post that is straw man behavior (if he had quoted someone perhaps). Looks more like something to think about to me.

Don't mistake MMO AI with SP AI. But I get what you are saying. Aggro = Aggression I think it makes sense if my Wizard would throw a Spell that kills the enemy team Healer, that the entire enemy team would focus and be more aggressive against my Wizard because they both appreciated the Healer as a valued member and because it was a vital figure taken down by an equal vital figure. Chess can have aggressive tactics. But yes ultimately I'm with you, no MMO Aggression (I should be able to intercept an enemy tthat gets "annoyed" at my tactic). When a Developer makes an AI do they play it and record it or do they just add values, code/script?

How are both these Romance/Sex options?? Look don't take any offense but how much do you think about Sex? (obviously not Romance) Thank you SGray.

They want to write a dumb character, if there is going to be a dialogue reward system for High Int/Cha characters then I'm sure there is going to be a different form of dialogue reward system for Low Int/Cha. A dumb character (low intelligence a la Fallout 2) gets an entirely different story and gets treated differently, which is a reward in itself (kind of).

*shudders* Sorry man. EDIT: I understand the concept but, no not interested. Your entire example is tailored to a certain audience. Why would she be dressed up in chainmail bikini? Why does she have to be hot? Why is she imprisoned by the family, is the family entirely good? How long has she been a prisoner? Would she not be given a prisoner's outfit or would the family keep her half-naked in their basement? EDIT EDIT: How long have I known the family and the prisoner before the house started burning? Is this something the prisoner is yelling at me as I'm walking by? "If you save me you can lay with me!!!!" or what? How much time did I have, up until the time of the house burning, to assess and gain a relationship with these people? Osvir I appreciate your logical rebuttal to my concept but don't you think you are over- analyzing the scenario. Remember its a fantasy RPG, not everything is going to make sense? The thing is I hope that P:E will be well-written, and for something to be well written it needs to have some sense. I also dislike that argument as it seems to be the "lazy last resort" argument. Couldn't you at least try to paint a scenario where your idea is in it's prime triumph where it makes sense? Where a burning house doesn't appear out of nowhere with a hot dark elf prisoner and a family in peril, but with some history and background to it. What's the agenda with the family? What's the agenda with the prisoner? But most importantly (like some said "I'd be at the bar and gamble all my money away") what is it to your character? It needs some sort of "entrance" to matter or be important for your character and not a "troll event" from out of the improvised blue. EDIT: Probably not, otherwise you wouldn't have brought out the "it's a fantasy RPG" card.

Like I've said, I'm no master artist but I think this proves the point again (Although exaggerated, it does convey an emotion in the characters does it not?). EDIT: Imoen, I could see her and imagine her smiling a lot, lots of times when she was sad I would imagine her eyes looking down, then shifting to the more "Happy-Go-Lucky" personality that she is. Lots of jRPG's use this method and I don't see why it couldn't fit in a game like P:E (in a more mature way ofc and without all the emoticon stuff) Original art (only customized interface/text) to compare.

So I take it you've never played Penumbra: Black Plague? Not the Black Plague no, I did play the one where you start off in freezin antartica and have to survive and then you find a hatch and then you go down and then I got scared after 10-15 minutes and stopped playing then I picked it up a week later and got to some mines and dogs that weren't so scary and then I got bored because the game stopped scaring me haha, irony eh? EDIT: I've never played Amnesia either, only watched Let's Plays of it and I'm honestly not interested in sullying my pants. It is entertainment and laughable to watch someone else shriek, less entertaining to be the one shrieking (if you value masculinity, which I don't ironically enough... I just dislike the horror theme of Amnesia/Penumbra/Slender and similar games, I personally like intelligent mind wrenching horror and not splatter/morbid horror). EDIT: The Ghost House in Vampire: The Masquerade felt like something in between and is pure genius imo.

@TrashMan: The anime/manga is Zetman, his name is Haitani. I'd say that the manga is so much better and the anime ends very abruptly (manga is still going on). Zetman Anime felt like Full Metal Alchemist Anime (the first one, with the weird ending, not ":Brotherhood" which follows the manga honestly, intellectually and genuinely). About Griffith: Oh well yes not a villain per say but that's what makes him interesting and everything leading up to the point, I want to leave spoilers out but yeah lots of stuff happens past "The Eclipse"... the anime ends where the manga, and Guts vengeance, pretty much begins. EDIT: I had to force the Berserk anime on my room mate, he was resistent about it and stuck his tongue out saying "It sucks!" after one episode. After the second episode he was interested and finally when he had finished it he was yelling "BERSERK IS THE BEST ANIME IN THE WORLD!!!" haha. Berserk has such a great story.

Somewhere in that whole ice-cream analogy I think I lost your point...what do the walnuts represent? I think you are over thinking the metaphor, simplified: I like chocolate more than vanilla, whilst you might like vanilla more than chocolate. In other words, you enjoy one type of archetype of villains more than another perhaps, whilst I think the "another one" is cooler than the one you enjoy. But it all comes down to great writing I believe, where we stand together I believe. A great written villain is a great written villain, regardless of his "type" of villainy.

Of course they can show facial expression, if mini-portraits are going to be included in the dialogue. I refer to my posts where I slightly modified some faces per improvisation (Photoshop), I'm no master artist in any way but I think the little modification I did proves the point, does it not?

I'd like to see movement abilities like "jump" or "teleport" or "tree stride" that let you move quickly around the terrain. I'd like to be able to lay down walls of force or fire or wind that deflects missiles. I'd like to see enemies use barricades to block choke points. Traps should have no faction awareness, triggered by anyone and hit anyone. Yeah, I love terrain effects like these. Enemies should use the tactical advantages of barricades as well, if I'm on the advance they should throw bookcases down in front of the door. They should be jumping through the windows of a house to get at me, maybe an enemy Wizard could even teleport through walls, land an explosive spell and teleport out (just to be mean). If I can jump the enemy needs to be able to jump. Can I take cover I want the enemy to be able to take cover, if I can kite then I want the enemy to kite.. etc. etc.

*shudders* Sorry man. EDIT: I understand the concept but, no not interested. Your entire example is tailored to a certain audience. Why would she be dressed up in chainmail bikini? Why does she have to be hot? Why is she imprisoned by the family, is the family entirely good? How long has she been a prisoner? Would she not be given a prisoner's outfit or would the family keep her half-naked in their basement? To be honest I'd probably save the family, specially if the chick is evil (I usually play good characters) and find that vital information elsewhere (your entire example, by the way, gives you less of a reward choosing the "Good" choice playing a "Good" character and the "Evil" choice rewards you thrice, more evil character roleplay, virtual sappy pleasure and vital information, whilst saving the family gives you "Gratitude" and more good character roleplay). EDIT EDIT: How long have I known the family and the prisoner before the house started burning? Is this something the prisoner is yelling at me as I'm walking by? "If you save me you can lay with me!!!!" or what? How much time did I have, up until the time of the house burning, to assess and gain a relationship with these people?

Yeah I think they did. And amazing artwork bro like Rostere I was expecting Fan Art (in an excited way, I love Fan Art)

I kited the entire bandit camp, in Baldur's Gate Trilogy with all the mods I had you couldn't just "pull" one or two enemies at a time, no if 1 group of enemies saw you at the bandit camp everyone would come chasing after you. It was in multiplayer, I was playing a Dragon Slayer (A Paladin Mod Kit with a bow, basically) and my friend had a Shadow Elf (Ranger Mod Kit) and a Pit Fighter (Fighter Mod Kit). We had a guerilla warfare where the entire bandit camp was chasing my kiting Paladin (we did die a couple of times before it was cool and I did it right and skillfully). I had to constantly move or else we were dead, stop, shoot an arrow, run. I sneaked around slightly, shoot an arrow from a patch of trees, turn around and high-tailed it and did this until their numbers were super thin. My friend took down stragglers, keeping the horde of Bandits attention to my Fighter. It was awesome and nailbiting. It was a display of skill as well, not merely "Oh this is such a cheap tactic!!", I had to sit on my toes and be "awake". It was intense and lots of nerd shrieking was involved. Someone else spoke about summoning 6 Swords, closing the door and sitting back and enjoying the show? I think that's cheap (although still an awesome tactic, kudos, gotta try that one), where you can basically leave the game and do something else in the meantime. Kiting is something that could be improved upon, for sure, in vanilla Baldur's Gate it's so easy. With SCS (Sword Coast Stratagem) and other tactical mods this isn't an issue anymore in my opinion, because you can't pull 1 or 2, but you pull the entire mob of 10-15 enemies at once (at the Bandit Camp I think it's like 20-30 enemies that are coming at you at one, half of them are melee and the rest are ranged with bow and arrow). Kiting is a micro-management Player skill and it is really fun, it could be made more difficult to successfully abuse (because enemies use tactics against it or whatever, maybe they run away if they can't land a single hit on you, or use some magic/item somehow to close the gap between you and them just like you do it against them). Point is, if I can kite then I want to see the AI kite as well (which might be super difficult to implement into the AI).

Martyr-Like Saint/Paladin? Oh boy.... Griffith is the Leader of the Band of the Hawk and he meets Guts through some random events. They become really close as friends, bro's fundamentally. Griffith was raised as a poor boy, and has always dreamt about becoming a King, hence why he tactfully raises a mercenary band of ruffians and clowns, that he manages to mysteriously sway with his good looks, his good manners and his natural leadership. People look to him and just feel awe-struck because Griffith has a dream, he has a vision of a true and wonderful world in these dark times (similar Era to that of P:E I think?), that's what people see in him.... oh if anyone of them only knew!! *shudders*

I'd love to see the gunpowder smoke float through the air, but I wouldn't want either a magical explosion that shoots a doomball from the gun that sucks everything it hits into an abysmal void... Nevermind I want that too! But I get what OP is saying. Spells that are clunky, funky and artistically fugly (i.e. outdated). Seeing the invisible force push itself as my Wizard holds up one hand to create a Fireball, with open palm shaking and shockwaves gathering til the Fireball appears out of "nowhere" out from the build up of the spell. I guess that's the short explanation: I want more build up special effects leading to the spell special effect and finally with a damaging/attacking/defensive special effect. Likewise I would like to have more control of my Magic: 1 - Call on the spell/incantation 2 - Have the spell (fireball) 3 - Attack with spell In Baldur's Gate I would choose the area where I want to throw my Fireball and toward the Mage will cast it after incantation. What if I could get the spell Fireball in my characters palm and "load it" or "charge it" for a while (and being able to walk with it)? Could it even be a tactical choice to prolong casting? 1 - Summon Spell 2 - Maintain Spell 3 - Cast/Release Spell or Cancel it and get some "Soul" or "Mana" back from not casting it.

Another thought on realism, but I put it in the Tool-Kit thread I guess it could fit here too: Do you think it could be possible to mod attack animations to such detail that basically when you are facing an Ogre you can modify how your character will move against that specific enemy? Or perhaps a fight against a Gibberling where it latches on to your shield and gnaws at you. In Baldur's Gate that would equal you taking 1 damage. What I am saying is that having more "realistic" animations and easy use to access it, so that that fight with the Gibberling (specifically) visually looks like a power struggle, instead of "Chop" back and forth. Whether such animations is part of the core game or not, is it possible to build an engine in such a way? I understand that there is 100's of different situations to take into consideration (1 or 2 full animations where your character dodges with consideration to the enemy attack speed and striking etc. etc). That when you hit the Ogre with a two-handed hammer to the face it gets jabbed and staggers backwards or might even hit dirt if critical hit. EDIT: Not necessarily something that has to be in the game for me to enjoy it but just thoughts about visual eye-candy and immersion I suppose.

For reflection between the two three:

This. I keep pushing this I know, but I really really hate that my rogue can sneak through a darn prairie like it's nothing. Forest? Sure, don't even have to calculate LOS, just imply (modifier) that rogue can hide more effectively in a forest. Flat barren wasteland? Better be one heck of a good rogue. Camouflage gear, invisibility dust, smoke bomb's to escape/close gap in combat, invisibility cloak or as rumors have told: Magic would be included in the Stealth mechanic.

I could always do like this for now, and if anyone is interested, join in (thinking about putting it in my signature but got to work on it a bit more): http://z13.invisionfree.com/PE_Fan_Forum/index.php?act=idx

I recall Avellone saying something in an interview along the lines of "The Character is the most important tool that the Player uses to interact with the world" which is "duhr"-ly true. If the Character is believable in place of the world, whatever the gameplay is, and gets feedback from the world I'm good. The Character is our "translator". With this in mind it is equally important that the feedback or "communicating" we do with the world is just as intellectual and believable as the input we give. Input/Output.

Good points Kaine

*shudders* if he only knew And this guy: This guy is one of the best uber-nemesis villains that I can recall. He is cool in his tuxedo, and just so overwhelming. Condescending to the Hero every time they meet and just so playful. This guy is Heath Ledger Joker material, without the madness. Scheming, plotting, sociopathic I'm sure. The Hero dashes and tries to attack him at some points, but Haitani simply appears elsewhere and pretends like nothing ever happened. He is in a sense omnipotent, and extremely well-mannered at the same time. The best part is that he's not even the Leader of the Evol faction (actual name), but an uprising and rebellious villain with so much guile, charisma and completely unknown strengths or weaknesses. A villain that even suggests where the Hero should go, patronizing him, taunting him, blackmailing him. He treats the Hero like a "tool" a means to "personal success", a chess piece, and the Hero has little choice but to do as Haitani says, because time is running out.

Do you think it could be possible to mod attack animations to such detail that basically when you are facing an Ogre you can modify how your character will move against that specific enemy? Or perhaps a fight against a Gibberling where it latches on to your shield and gnaws at you. In Baldur's Gate that would equal you taking 1 damage. What I am saying is that having more "realistic" animations and easy use to access it, so that that fight with the Gibberling (specifically) visually looks like a power struggle, instead of "Chop" back and forth. Whether such animations is part of the core game or not, is it possible to build an engine in such a way? I understand that there is 100's of different situations to take into consideration (1 or 2 full animations where your character dodges with consideration to the enemy attack speed and striking etc. etc). That when you hit the Ogre with a hammer to the face it gets jabbed and staggers backwards or might even hit dirt if critical hit.

Although I agree with you I feel that some grounds could be explored in less detail. Why? Because this is a powerful subject. Being Gay is sexual but rape is bad. Period. Having a psycho Cipher that rapes the mind of your character in detail and horror can be traumatizing if too realistic. Don't neglect the power of your own mind, specially if P:E is going to be as immersible as people seem to want it here. Amnesia, if it would show the same extraordinaire genius and horror of its own creation but focus all that energy into rape I believe it could just be a disturbing feature no one wants to see and would puke at it. In a more subtle way, where there is implication of it having happened or "fade to black" and then we can destroy the bastards that did it, or even hunt them down and redeem them after teaching them a hard lesson (nothing sexual, but definitely physical). What I'm trying to say is... Please Obsidian, don't rape us.