Jojobobo

One speed enchanted, both durgan refined weapons, Gauntlets of Swift Action, Two Weapon Style, Armored Grace and durgan refined plate. Unless I'm mistaken, it's: [(1.2 x 1.15 x 1.15 x 1.15) + 0.2 - 1.0] x -100% = -102.5% recovery [(Speed enchant x durgan x durgan x gauntlets) + two weapon - standard recovery --> if you were wondering where the numbers come from [1.0 + 0.5 - 0.2 - 0.15] x 100% = 115% [standard recovery + plate penalty - Armored Grace - Durgan Refined] --> again to explain the numbers 115 - 102.5 = 12.5% recovery. You can obviously go for Outlander's Frenzy or DoAM for 0 recovery, but Outlander's Frenzy doesn't last long plus lowers deflection and DoAM requires extensive potion usage to keep it up (though I probably will pop one when the fight is epic enough). An extra speed enchant weapon would also do the trick, but I didn't want one.

Second Chance sucks sure, but I don't think Unbroken is so bad. For this build I'd be looking at regain my entire endurance pool with my current Might and the x1.6 survival healing modifier (which I assume affects it, seeing as I tested Might and it definitely does) and given all those defensive buffs you would be pretty damn sturdy, even with whatever debuff you get from the maim injury. In any case, I think I've sold myself on Unbending over Charge, and I'll take Wound Binding to make better use of it in long battles. I had no idea it recovered 40% (!) of health, for me that can make my total health for one match 1750 (which I should more or less have access to the entirety of with various healing). This will all be coupled to 100+ defences in each stat, high accuracy, two weapon fighting with almost zero recovery (12.5%), the DR of full plate and other ridiculousness like Triggered Immunity - I'm hoping to have a whale of a time.

I guess I'm not sure about Unbending, do you consider the rate of healing to be of a great deal of importance? I'm planning to use He Carries Many Scars, take Rapid Recovery, be a Moon Godlike and obviously I have Unbroken in toe already - and for survival I'm taking the healing modifier, and my Might will top out at 24. Without even considering He Carries Many Scars or minor athletics heals, my healing plus endurance is a few points greater than my health. Also, I'd imagine Triggered Immunity will add to the beating I can take. However if you don't think the rate would be high enough to stave off unconsciousness to begin with, I might pick it up. Fearless I wanted purely to give me more item slots against difficult fights like dragons, as I don't have space for Deep Pockets in my talents so much. Plus Prayer Against Fear doesn't last forever, this seemed like an easier option. I guess given all this, it's down to Charge vs. Unbending.

It's the same DPS multiplier sure, but for having both high Dex and zero recovery the returns are diminishing in a practical - not mathematical - sense. Going off MaxQuest's Big "Attack Speed" Conundrum thread and assuming all his standardised values for the attack and recovery phases to be correct (which I'm sure they would be), then let's take the mace weapon. It has an attack phase value of 1 - so let's say that lasts 80 frames - and a recovery phase of 1.5 (which would correspond to 120 frames relative to the attack phase). Let's say the equation takes the form, total frames = [attack phrase frames + (recovery phase frames x recovery coefficient)] / dexterity bonus I think most of these values are self explanatory, zero recovery having a recovery coefficient of 0 and normal recovery having the same coefficient as 1. Dex 10, normal recovery = [80 + (120 x 1)] / 1 = 200 Dex 20, normal recovery = [80 + (120 x 1)] / 1.3 = 153.8 Dex 10, zero recovery = [80 + (120 x 0)] / 1 = 80 Dex 20, zero recovery = [80 + (120 x 0)] / 1.3 = 61.5 Comparing Dex 10 standard recovery to Dex 10 zero recovery, you're shedding a whole 120 frames. Comparing Dex 20 standard recovery to Dex 10 standard recovery, you're shedding 46.2 frames. Comparing Dex 20 zero recovery to Dex 10 zero recovery, you're now shedding just 18.5 frames. The big deal here is always the speed gained from zero recovery which is massive in comparison, and not the speed from having a decent Dex. This is without factoring in the small constant of delay in the aforementioned thread which affects high Dex slightly worse as MaxQuest and yourself have mentioned. While you're not getting diminishing returns mathematically (as in, we're not talking exponential decay here), it seems that for a difference of just 18.5 frames going for both zero recovery and high Dex you really may as well be putting those points somewhere else - I'm sure Mig would provide more DPS in this instance. The case may be a little different with reloading weapons (they have the whole extra - and lengthy - reloading turn added), and of course it's worthwhile for spells and whatnot - but for melee DPS the combo of both high Dex and zero recovery to me seems extremely pointless.

Even if it's not false I don't get the point of comparing non-mutually exclusive stuff. Also it depends on how much Dex you compare. 10 Dex is better than speed gauntlet of course. 5 Dex may not be, unless you already have no recovery. Dex vs Mig vs Per is the real question here. That's the point I was making, even if I didn't explicitly spell it out - by minimising recovery it's easier to shift points out of Dex (or at least, leave it base 10) and into something like Mig or Per as you get diminishing returns by taking both high Dex and minimising recovery, unless it's in the instances that Boeroer mentioned (spell/invocation casting, long reload ranged weapons) where Dex can be of greater value than just reducing recovery. Quite possibly, there's a sweet spot where a combo of some of the recovery reducing items/abilities/talents and some dex is faster than either high dex or zero recovery - but it would take a more dedicated man than me to figure it out particularly with all the variables (reload times changing per weapon, different armour choices, etc.). In a simplistic melee example, zero recovery and more Mig/Per with base Dex seems the easiest way to go.

So I was looking to create a fighter with at least 100 in all their defences for solo PotD, yet still dual wielding with little to no recovery and with great healing (as in, endurance + healing = total health). I thought I'd managed it, but then realised Savage Attack and Defender don't stack (with Wary Defender you're obviously getting +15 defense for the cost of -5 deflection, and it makes you really hard to Flank, so I thought it was worth it). So I've now worked the numbers again, and got back to a situation where my defences are all at least 100 with end game gear by taking one of the defence talents. However, I now how a free ability slot, so I was wondering are any of the Fighter offensive abilities (Clear Out, Sundering Blow, Charge) any good - or should I just take something like Critical Defence for more tankiness? I don't have any CC to speak of apart from Lore 8 and below scrolls and Dominate from Ring of Changing Heart (both of which I should be a dab hand with, given Fighters' ridiculous accuracy) so I thought maybe Charge might be worth it if the damage I've read about is correct (plus it would make up for the fact somewhat that I'm not planning on using any move speed items)? Or, as my weapons won't be the most damaging, is Sundering Blow worth it - the duration seems a little on the short side with 10 INT? My current abilities are: 1 - Disciplined Barage 3 - Confident Aim 5 - Weapon Spec 7 - Armoured Grace 9 - Fearless 11 - Unbroken 13 - the free slot 15 - Triggered Immunity Thanks!

To add to what everyone else has said, Dexterity isn't as worthwhile in terms of DPS as lowering recovery through Two Weapon Style/Durgan enchants/weapon speed enchants/Armored Grace (kinda)/Gauntlets of Swift Action/Swift Aim/Lightning Strikes/Frenzy/Deleterious Alacrity of Motion. Melee weapon attack have two phases, the attack itself and recovery. While Dexterity shortens both of these phases, it's hard to get Dexterity to such a level where its reduction of attack + recovery is greater than eliminating recovery entirely or almost entirely through a combination of what I mentioned above. For more details on all of these, you should see one of the speed threads.

From what I remember using Rogue abilities it does. I just restrict myself in game and for 2 per encounter abilities I only use two instead of the three.

That's for the detailed info about Second Chance/Unbroken - didn't realise they didn't stack. I finally stopped being a spaz about the console anyway so I did the checking myself (for whatever reason, I didn't realise you had to type Iroll20s into the console bar itself, I thought you just had to type it when the "press enter" bit was up - I know I'm smart) and it restores 100 Endurance and it is effected by MIG. I guess the difference between Second Chance/Unbroken is second Chance offers little to no endurance back (20) so it's hard to make survive further hits. 100+ HP on the other hand is much more significant.

I got bored of waiting for 3.03 to hit GoG, so I thought I'd play a fighter in the mean time. As such, I had some questions about Unbroken. Does it recover half your endurance or 100 endurance? The wiki page confusingly mentions both. Also, is the healing affected in the standard way by might? I'm trying to optimise my health in comparison to my health - so my endurance + healing = health. However, obviously to do that, I need to know how much I'm going to be healing in the first place. Thanks in advance!

Looking in the beta bug log, it seems like things like even per encounter Heart of Fury are causing issue. Given that's the case, I've lowered my expectation on a soonish release - seeing as my hard drive was wiped I'm re-installing 3.02 as of now and going for classes that weren't tweaked or overly affected in the re-balance. Also, what's this I've been hearing about Captain Viccilo's Hatchet that's not in the game?? Put it in for 3.03 maybe???? Or just at least tell us, if it is already in the game, what unholy stuff you want us to do to earn it - please?

I'd love for you to update your Attack Speed WIP thread MaxQuest, I currently have it favourited. I get how the stuff works, but a catchall reference - particularly with what suppresses what - would be incredibly useful even so. Yours sincerely, a lazy man unwilling to put in the effort himself.

It'd be handy in that I don't think there's any immunity to fatigue, while it's not the most overpowered debuff it's universal applicability would be great. It's also sweet for dual-wielding barbs (with a second stun/prone weapon to take advantage of the def drop) or really just anyone who wants to use hatchets defensively (-10 accuracy = +10 deflection, giving that particular hatchet +15 deflection against your targeted melee enemy - in addition to -5 to defences essentially meaning +5 to your accuracy).

I too would appreciate it's placement in 3.03 proper, unless it's already in the game.

Well you better be sorry, you coming here with your incisive character builds and detailed knowledge and yet you dare make one mistake? How dare you! I'm joking of course, still you are adding in slots to the build (neither Lust nor Thirst were in the original). I'll muse over it while I try to think of more solo builds before the GoG patch comes out.

I thought the only effect of Bloodthirst was the no recovery thing after kills, if it also ups attack speed after a couple then yeah I could see that. I guess the thing to consider is whether the prone/stun-locking is better with one weapon when you compare it to the increased speed (and hence, ability to run better armour without recovery) and also damage of two weapons. You're obviously hitting many targets with Carnage in the first place, so the chance of getting a crit or a couple of crits on a mob is certainly higher than most classes lacking that AoE. I guess one-handed might be in a purely disabling sense, with the status-locking outweighing the additional damage of an offhand weapon - particular with Apprentice Sneak Attack. If someone could put harder numbers and testing to it, I'd be interested. I keep trying to figure out where the extra hit to crit on one-handed is useful, and you'd think with the changes it's got to be on Rogues and Barbarians - Riposte Rogues if you could buff their deflection and with Dirty/Vicious Fighting will be getting a lot of crits and sneak attacks and quite possibly Deathblows. No other class really gets much of a way to melee AoE, apart from Monks with Torment's Reach which seems very sporadic in what effects it chains.

I guess that's true, still the dramatically easier crits due to the debuff is definitely a factor. In terms of the attack speed here, am I right in think it's only Durgan + Frenzy + Swift Action (as far as I know, none of the cool on crit items also have a speed enchant)? Because that is a little sucky, and would require a lot less armour - Frenzy and DAoM don't stack right?

I know people have mentioned Godansthunyr, but unless I'm missing something isn't it much better for the build? I've not tested out We Toki in game to know how the prone duration would compare to the stun duration of Godansthunyr, but even so stun seems to be a way better debuff and once it's inflicted on a foe subsequent stuns should be easier (-30 deflection allowing for more crits compared to the -10 for prone). Also, as far as I'm aware, Godansthunyr has an interrupt of 0.75 - making it a juicy peach for an interrupt barbarian by rivalling that of two-handers - and it also had the crush/pierce thing going for it, which I'd imagine is useful in Carnage situations with mixed enemy groups. It's late game and dragon protected, but still all these weapons tend to be a little late game.

Also is there an ETA on the final patch release? Very approximate would do.

Thankye Loren Tyr for the precise response, and thanks to Eric Galad for the effort. I guess I could have tested these things myself, but seeing as my mac got wiped and I'll need to download and do a full install anyway I thought I'd rather wait until the patch is out on GoG.

So I don't have much experience with the caster classes, and while I'm waiting for 3.03 to hit GoG and with a free day tomorrow I thought I'd try and hash out some more solo PotD builds for myself to try. In light of that, do area effects which are "friendly AoE" affect the caster as well or just companions, which you obviously don't have on solo? Thanks in advance!

I'll try Riposte extensively with my tanky Rogue once this hits GoG, I was PotD soloing fine on 3.02 (at least until my hard drive got wiped) as a damage over time Rogue (Deep Wounds, Retaliate, Envenomed Strike, Touch of Rot, Drawn in Spring - and with 3.03 let's add in Combusting Wounds). I think with decent defences Riposte will now be worth it - particularly with Drawn in Spring for the damage stacking with Deep Wounds. As soon as the patch get's a GoG release, I'll be all over it. I've not quite deciding yet if Adept Evasion is worth the cost of another Strike or not (bearing in mind I'm dropping a Strike for Riposte). I guess maybe it is, particularly against things like Dragons? It'd be great to have some advice on this going in, I'd have 102 Reflex end game so maybe it would be nice on solo - however Strikes definitely help a lot. I also think Fearsome Strike is actually worth a look on solo now - huge and long lasting Deathblows so long as you have decent Intellect. Given solo runs need to rest regularly anyway, I don't think it being per rest is really much on a problem. I'd be looking to run a 20 Int Rogue solo, if you chain Fearsome Strike onto something that lowers Fortitude (e.g. Spreading Plague from the Rotfinger gloves) and then get the now-more-likely crit you get 33.75 dual Weakened/Hobbled durations - with Riposte full attacks and Retaliate both racking up damage and crits from Death Blows and Dirty + Vicious Fighting, plus any other attacks you're making like spell scrolls which are also affected by Death Blows, you're a damn beast.

You should wait and see how the new patches rebalance the Rogue, and update the build. Otherwise, nice build, I like the use of the flanking bonus from survival - not one you see often.

My mac burnt itself out and I lost my saves with the repair (for some reason it cleared out my library folder). As I want to be soloing as a Rogue, I thought I may as well wait until they're buffed in the patch. So what I'm trying to say is, yes I'm incredibly keen on it also.

I think it's because Savage Attack and Reckless Assault affect the same things (damage and accuracy), whereas for Vulnerable Attack and Reckless Assault or Savage Attack the effects are different (DR and reduced attack speed vs increased damage and changes to accuracy). That's how I've always interpreted these effects anyway, and it kind of makes sense for the Ranger's abilities too seeing as they all affect accuracy (either boosting it or dropping it) even if they also have an additional effect - could be this is why they decided not to let Powder Burns also stack as it indirectly affects accuracy by making you blind.