Mamoulian War

oh pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiz, let that be true!!!!

Yes, you summed it pretty good...

You still saying the same, but you never gave enough reasoning, why any game with good gameplay and good writing can't become considered as an art masterpiece. Sorry but your reasoning "Cos' it's game ffs" does not cut it... Some books are, some movies are, there is absolutely no reason, why at some point in time an excellent game could be considered by renown art critics as a masterpiece of art...

Most of us here know how NOT fun it is to be unemployed. Making profit makes jobs. Every company needs to make profit, and every public company, or private company with investors, are obligated to make as much profit as possible. In a situation where a great deal of money is invested up front, with no ROI until the product is shipped, things have to be kept lean and focused. That's the reality of the situation. We've laid of about 35% of our employees this year. Those of us remaining are picking up the responsibilities of those who left. I haven't had a day off this month. Nothing at work is fun right now, and I have to account for every dollar that is spent in my department. I have people I've never heard of before calling me every day asking if I can cut yet another 5% of my costs. I look at my people and wonder how I'm going to be able to meet my commitments if I have to let another one go. Money is everything...profit is everything. Without either, there is no product. The idea is to make the best product possible within the budget. When times are good, sometimes the budget can be expanded a bit. When times are bad. you have to justify every expense, and yes, the end result may be adversely affected. It's business, not art class. The people who put up money expect maximum return. Those investors interested in art and innovation, at the expense of return, are few and far between. I do not know how in the US, but in EU (to be more particular central europe) is IT the only industry where you have no problem to get employed even now (especialy the jobs where you can offer your IP - programmers, graphics, web-designers)... i got few friends who got sacked, and they found new job in IT within a week, max month... few of them with even better pay, and now they are happy that they got kicked out of the last job...

the only one distracting here is you, comparing videogames with normal games... they are both games sure but of totaly different kind... it's the same like you would said that movies can't be art because porn was never considered as an art...

You know very good i was talking about computer/console games... and they are definately not older than human species doesn't matter what you were talking 'bout. games has been 'round probable back before cro magnon, and games ain't gotten the benefit of doubt as an art form in all that time. makes harder for computer/console games to somehow change. HA! Good Fun! All right, then. Backgammon: is it art? no. neither is chess or monopoly or poker or any other game we can think of at the moment. maybe some folks consider chess an art, but not most folks. computer games can combine elements o' film and literature, but they is still viewed as games. no matter how good the game there is gonna be some resistance to use o' the art label. HA! Good Fun! chess is not art? You cant speak only about game when you do not take into consideration pieces and boards aswell... the quality is questionable but, it is sort of an art!!! few pictures which shows you how chess can be an art...

You know very good i was talking about computer/console games... and they are definately not older than human species

1) you is dreaming if you believe that ps:t will ever be considered an artistic masterpiece = starry night. ... really. am not even gonna argue this. ps:t is our fave game, but if you thinks ps:t ever gets cred as genuine art from some significant portion o' public and academia, then you is deluded. HA! Good Fun! To be fair, no videogame has managed something of that magnitude yet. because games are about 70 years younger than movies and more than few hundred years younger than books

if they instance it properly, it might work good

They just want the IP, because when they purchased rights for Fallout IP only for single player games, with some sort of clause, that if Interplay does not show enough work done on their MMO, the whole fallout goes to Bethesda... But iirc the date was set to be around 2010... I might be wrong about the date, because i read article about it more than few years ago...

seriously, why everyone thinks that commercial failure = failure of the product... Van Gogh died poor because of commercial failure during his life, but nowadays his paintings are considered as part of the best creations which were ever made by mankind... same will happen with few games aswell, when they start to be taken more seriously like books and movies in the past... And Torment will be one of them...

ehm no... Gaming in general != hyped main stream only games... Gaming in general = halo + PST + Barbie Pony Farm etc etc, in other words all games that were ever crated, and like it or not, PST is one of the most noteworthy games in "Gaming as general category", while Barbie Pony Farm or hyped mainstream game like Daikatana is not...

why is it so hard to step back and look at things from any other perspective that current hyped main stream way in general?

That's a horrible analogy. Van Gogh is widely known and discussed everywhere where art is discussed. PST is something that very few people even know exists. Also, whoever brought up PST being on the GOG wishlist, just because ~6500 people want it released isn't the same as them talking about it. There would only be money in a PST sequel when done on an extreme budget, but with similar quality. No it's not... PST is widely known and discussed everywhere where CRPGs are discussed... See what i did there?

But only if it would use the 2D engine like infinity... If anybody would try to make such a story into current gen Graphics, Audio, Voiceovers.. etc, then i think we would see a game which could put the name Duke Nukem Forever into shame in the term of lenghty development or Windows Vista in the term of costly development But yes i would not hesitate to pay bonus price for such a game (of course only if it would come DRM-free or with disk-check only )

I was completely unfamiliar with ADnD (and any other PnP RPG games) at the time i played Torment... I fell in love with the story on first play

That's pretty rich considering that Van Gogh (among others) was horribly underappreciated during his lifetime. I guess his contemporaries believed themselves to be every bit as enlightened as you believe yourself to be. "Art" is make-believe. Planescape Torment was released a decade ago, which is a practically a century in the video game world and we're still talking about it. That's more than 90% of games can claim. To be fair, we are talking about it because this is the ex-BIS and generally wRPG-oriented forum. Pretty much no one else is talking about it. this can be written as: To be fair, we are talking about Van Gogh because we are all graduates of Classic Art Universities. Pretty much no one else is talking about it. Does that mean Van Gogh is all of a sudden not art?

This... You can't compare Picasso with Van Gogh, can you?

you missed this line... Torment, unlike the games you mentioned has the other half of the argument aswell

thanks for sharing I still have the first 4 CD release of PS:T in my collection

Kinda hope for this aswell.... it's the 1st Bioware game i did not purchased with preorder

That has nothing to do with ME. Then tell me how do you gonna activate your ME when there is no authentification server?

Check this out... http://games.ea.com/information.jsp What do you think you will be doing with your game when it gets on this list?

Indeed this is old news for many of us, but still it is one of the best gaming news i came upon this year

That is correct, but you have to install the file before you launch ME for the 1st time. But beware as Kaftan Barlast already said, if you are citizen of USA, just using a crack is against your DMCA law (it counts as circumventing DRM)...