Hassat Hunter

Of all the issues... they fix THIS? Seriously... They are quick to patch out stuff that profits us. But actual fixes to them breaking the game or messing up in our neglectance... forget it. This isn't worthy of emergency patching. The GTN and repair is. This has to be a stupid joke... I hate it when I'm right...

Which game does?

TRX, you're confusing the crap out of me... sometimes you get so close, only to drift so far away. For example every single game to point with XP for every little damn thing (DX:HR, BG2, KOTOR2, the entire freaking TES series) has shown how that leads to issues. Yet still people put it up as some holy grail fix for non-combat. It's not just theory here, it's been proven again and again in games. Secondly; the FN:V system works fine there, but isn't that suitable for PE. The desert is big. It has respawning enemies. It would be silly if remaining empty. So yeah, killing large group XP's work less well with finite amounts of enemies. Different game, different system. Just applying the same wont work. Doesn't mean we can't look at FN:V seeing what it has done right and wrong, but just copying over the system of an entirely different gametype (sandbox vs. storyled) would be... problematic. Also last one at TRX again; Why the obsession with in-combat level ups. From I hear there's about 12 level ups you get in the game. 12. In a, what, 100 hour game? Is it really that important that you get instant XP to expedient those 12 times by, what, 1 minute. It's not like it's Diablo with 150 levels or most modern games with around 50 that leveling is a common occurancy. It's SO rare, it should be an extreme non-issue. Instead of the focus point of changing a system just for those once in 10 hour events (well, faster on low level and less on high, but I hope you get the point). EDIT: Grats for Lephys for making points far better than I can, and probably not getting as frustrated as me... which can sometimes lead to less polite responses than I should make. It's just so hard not to bang my head to the wall to some points made over and over and over, and it's like the people proposing them don't even read counter-posts, let stand respond on the points being made.

If they only fix the legacy ship unlock and nothing of importance, I am going to be pissed. Shame they can't patch out **** griefers. Found something even worse than the gree thing in the PVP... the bonus of the Gree Destroyer. A guild was just hanging out and killing each spawn (there is 1. And it has an insane respawn time. Whoever made this was obviously drunk and/or insane). You need 1. I personally saw them kill 4+. Why? Just to annoy others. PvP forums on BioWare is also filled with hints how to best cause grief, annoy people waiting for gree pylon and general tips just to make other people's more miserable. I guess some people are happy with the patch. But I can assume more are leaving fed up by those bastards.

Pretty much. You can easily see it. No one bashed Fallout 3 for being buggy. But it happens for FN:V. Interesting detail; It's 80% the same freaking bugs due to that horrid engine... Should speak for itself, no? EDIT: Bashed, not based. Stupid typo's...

Hmmm, that could explain a lot. Though the people activating the console stated they didn't even get it updated. Anyway, anyone else notices heavily increased repair costs? I did. Less than 3000 for wipe before, now over 5000 for wipe. Almost double. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=596970 Let's hope they hear our dissatisfaction and change it back. I can only dread how much repair costs if I actually had items worth mentioning 0_o EDIT: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5847876#edit5847876 Heh, saw it coming... also plenty of people complaing about the GTN changes. Good to see I am not alone...

Ehm, who? Cause I don't think anyone fits the description unless you seriously mis-read some stuff. Like taking "why should killing 10 orcs of 20 give XP but not 50% of 1 dragon" to mean 'I want learn by doing' Then again, it's Valorian... :/

Sure do it anyway, since you might get a revelation answering many. Or we get more insights how you come to some weird deductions. That's not what you said. You said they never returned. NEVER. Not later. NEVER. That's sloppy. Still, the point does stand, why *should* you be rewarded for those first 25% rather than much later on when you finished it all. To use your beloved "threat", what good does killing 2 orcs in a 50 orc party does besieging the town. Why should you be rewarded for it, instead of when they're all down and everyone is saved. Or nothing at all if you fail miserably and everyone dies. Why should you be rewarded with XP if you let the orcs kill everyone in the town you were supposed to defend. What good did it do anyone you killed them after the fact? Again, Obsidian aren't freaking idiots. If they add such a twist, the outcome will take it into accont and act and reward accordingly. Sjeesh, 25+ pages later and you still think OE are RPG newbie's who never designed a quest in their life, and who add twists which will just break it? Really? This is something different from killing the questgiver for the heck of it. Which obviously shouldn't be rewarded. And don't dare say "but that's the evil path" since you know as well as I that ain't true. XP system mainly for people who do combat... or XP system for people who do combat, do stealth or do diplomacy. Tell me which of the 2 suits more players than the other. (Hint in case it's not obvious, the second) All the fearmongering in some people just because more playertypes or gamestyles are allowed is simply insane. Yes, your playstyle is still there. Still intact. Still viable. But so are others. Why the heck do you need to freak out over that? Is it that bad others play how they want? Is it really that bad other people enjoy the game a little different than you? What harm does it do you that you wont allow it? EDIT: As for your position of "awarding XP for doing stuff fixes everything I not only point to older posts, but games like BG2 and KOTOR2. For looking from a designer point you seem to did do very little resource in what worked and didn't work in previous game. And farming every little mine for XP being a problem can't possible sneak past anyone playing KOTOR2. And how it wrecks a potential good level design. It's a concept of "learn of past mistakes or you're bound to make them again"... sticking one's head in the sand, ignoring those past findings and claiming it fixes everything, well... I would definitely not suggest making that a path to follow... designer or not...

Part 2; My authorisation I mentioned before? I noticed it changed. It now says it's for the player char, not the account. Aargh. And worst is... it STILL DOESN'T work. They also made changes to the GTN. "any" doesn't work anymore, you need "cheap or higher"... that it's the same exact thing makes no difference. They added a 3-char limit for search. So finding mod 7? Fat chance, can't search for 7 anymore, good luck finding 7 between pages of other mods. They added new legacy unlocks. Ship teleport. Also 3 to make it from 18-1 hour. They are already pre-unlocked though. Wonder if BioWare is going to turn that back... The "gree" pvp event on Ilum is horrible. Apparently the want people to contest in the middle. But all it leads to it's 12 enemies being bored waiting for respawn there. And sometimes you do get a group of 4 thinking it's fun to kill single people around. So much joy. I'll never do that daily ever again. Also got a big ops group of about 10 people for the Heroic. So much hectic fighting. And somehow half the people never got stuff to update properly, making us fight way more than we really had to, and much trouble shooting was needed. Aside that the usual with lag, players getting kicked and crashing. It started with fun, but when the evening went on, I logged out being utterly annoyed. Mostly noticing my item change and the gtn. *sigh* Still takes 5 minutes though. Suppose it's the forced badroom break I didn't need though? Also, I still don't get why if you're toggled for PVP you first toggle it on? It's already on, let it immediately toggle it off. Not really, the imperial base seems to be to the east. This was all the way in the north, no Imperial in sight. Except for this droid. It's where in the orignal Ilum the base was. And it has the quest-marker dead over it.

As expected, Ilum exploded after 1.7's release. 10 full instances? Server has trouble. Overall dailies are fun. PvP still sucks. Not noticing you are flagged than getting gangbanged solo by 8 imperials isn't fun. Aside from that, it's something new. Some quirks though... to limit traffic on the heroic there are 5 points to do it. Good you say? Well, they planted 2 damn inside the PVP zone. And trust me, the Heroic is hard enough without having to worry about PvP groups killing you. So in reality, only 3 are in use, and one of them also has severe imperial raid parties hanging about. Final result; it really only has 2 nodes, where constantly about 3+ groups battle for the spawns and useable items... :/ Also funny was we got a group to do the heroic, got 1/3, then our healer vanished. Returned a while later... "Guess they didn't fix the crashes"... After that went flawless though, excluding the lag. And last annoying bug/quirk; In the north was a quest marker. You would think you have to go around there. There was a champion opponent there. Okay. Tried attacking it, insta-kill. Worst of it was that unlike other types of such defense you did need to pay repair costs. 5000 credits to waste due to a stupid marker being too high up. And the damn turret (why is it there anyway) being bugged. Also seems repair costs gone up... might have to do with them fixing enchantments being in selling (and repair?) prices. End of report of the first 2 hours with 1.7

Just got around half-way. Had to fight off 100+ baddies just to even get the boss of that level. It was pretty hard (than again, I play on hard difficulty.... seriously wonder how anyone can do this higher). Funny how the 'lead up' killed me 2 dozen times, and when I finally got he boss only hit the dust once. Those annoying walking bones. Always becoming the death of me...

Like most, my favorite quest would involve many solutions and pathways to get there. And thus be fairly long and intensive, hopefully with many conversations inbetween. I never really liked the ocean house. I guess it has to do with not being scary at all (for me atleast). It quickly loses it's appeal. Especially second game and later. Same with investigations. They may be fun one time, but for replays they are the devil (see KOTOR2- Onderon for example).

Haven't heard about them for so long I wondered if they were dead... But good to hear a AoW III is coming... though I'm more the Overlord III type too. Or a new game... new games are good

I use windows 7. And the game does like to pick me... during the big Red Eclipse crash, 3 hours before the reset I was doing a flashpoint. Guess which of the 4 was the only one having to do the 40-minute re-logging? (I shouldn't have bothered, since everything I did past that point got wiped clean, thanks BW, but that's another story). But revenge is sweet, since Zbyl got it too a few times yesterday . And I still frequently do group content and people drop out and return a while later with 'game crashed' to know it's not just limited...

TRX, have you ever mentioned why partially completed objectives NEED rewards? It's an objective, you get rewarded when it's done. If it's not done, it's simply not done. I don't see why you should be rewarded for sloppy work. That's like praising a developer for shipping their game in an unfixed state. It's okay, you did partial work, here's your XP. Give me a good reason why going out on a quest to find object X, you retrieve it, then you never return it should be rewarded. Any. Because so far the only reason you have given is 'it just has' and 'I have shown you why it's important to reward ****ing hack-jobs before' (I haven't found it). If you kill 3 of the sverf long before and never return for the other 7 you SHOULDN'T be rewarded. If you kill 2 out of 50 (horrible objective, don't design quests please) bears you SHOULDN'T be rewarded. If you run away tail between your legs you SHOULDN'T be rewarded. Well, unless the goal was 'survive' or 'flee' and you did that successfully. But in your example it was just the player FAILING. I have a hard mind grasping the concept of rewarding failures, half-jobs and incompetance. Must be me... And no, just "adding reputation" wont fix it. Especially seeing how you also hammer killing gaining losses and penalties. It sounds more to me a system like you suggest would make combat less viable than objective XP (which doesn't) since each kill harms your reputation somewhere. Which... would be bad wouldn't you agree? Don't get me wrong, the reputation system not like BG but differenting on groups is great. But seriously, it shouldn't affect combat at all. Cause it's just ruining a good system making it a patchjob for another system. Patchjobs are bad, mkay? Also, if you have been unable to find the reason why Lephys or me are pro-objective system, even if it's posted so many times, you do a sloppy job reading. We're both really sure why we want it. We try to explain it over and over, but it doesn't seem to hang. Heck, even in my previous post there are several good reasons why objective-XP over kill-XP suits PE and it's design documentation better. Didn't you play BG2, KOTOR2? Read the thread? Seen the insane Degenerate behavior traps. Or just read Jarmo's post above. It should show you the fallacify of thinking "rewarding for traps/door unlocking etc." is good. It may look so on paper, but in reality in gameplay, it's only deteremental. As stated, picking a door is it's OWN reward. Disarming a trap is it's OWN reward. No need to smack XP on it. It's somewhat the same with combat. You already get loot, satisfaction, a clear playing field. No need to double-reward. Indeed. Your skills allow you to pass that persuasion check, unlock the door, disarm the mine. I just don't see why you need to get XP for it too. Unless you really want a system where finding 40 traps (think the expansion dungeon of BG1, forgot the name) doesn't mean avoiding them or disarming, but disarming them all. Also it would make locked doors and traps suddenly fall in balance, instead of designing an area. I rather want area designers to do their thing, without the XP system shoving in their face "you can't place a full mine-trap here, it would harm XP"... think Telos or Goto's Yacht in KOTOR2 for a good example where level design and XP design (per mine) seriously hampers the overall game (and no, I don't talk about the stupid AI being unable to detect mines and just charging them)... Again, I ask... why? Why account for players being ignorant, or doing half-jobs? Why should the gamedevs take into account someone driving through the McDrive and not ordering anything, but they plan "to return later"... what was the point of it? There was no point. If we start rewarding 'no point' then indeed the objective system would falter and die... since it's intention is to... *dramatic music* REWARD DOING SOMETHING USEFUL. Or well, having 'a point'. If we start handling "partial objectives" the entire system crashes and burns down. And the game will be sloppy indeed. I rather, with all my limited power, prevent such a stupid thing from happening. It wont. The goal is set, it's up to the player to achieve it. The system is completely oblivious and doesn't give a **** how you do it. Just... do it. If you don't do it, or partially do it... good for you. But no cookie. You may have your reasons, or not. And again, you can't think of evil further than "murder everyone"... and combine that with 'OE wont take evil into account'. Conclusion taken "we need combat XP". Problem with the conclusion however are the initial 2 statements being false. I would be seriously dissapointed if 'evil' is slaughtering anyone. But I am not going to assume it's so cause we're still talking about OE. And they hopefully not make fallicity statements like 'evil = killing, so killing XP must be in for evil player". Rather... evil objectives. Helping the bandits. Saving the kitty to wreck it's neck infront of the little girl asking you to save it. Forcing a hooker looking for freedom to work for you. Much more satisfying than murder everyone. I feel to see a design perspective where it's beneficial to add another layer to the already complex XP system in the form of reputation intead of basing it on your ingame actions rather than compensate for each individual kill. But maybe I am just a crazy developer. Maybe. And I guarantee you, I look to it from a designer AND players perspective. Weighing dev-time to effect, not cutting corners and doing the best for gamers too. I don't want either group skimped out. I want level designers and encounter designers free reign. Tightly balanced leveling and progression. I want the game to have a story, a path that stews you forward. A lush world to explore. And all the suggestions are to make the game so. Would you not want the game like that? Oh, nice anatology. Now tell me why the player should leave during 3/4th of the movie and have the full game experience, as you proclamate several times with "partial objectives need reward". What sane point do you have leaving 3/4th in. Is it common. Do movie makers need to compensate for the people doing this? I've seen far too much of it in this thread, the degenerate thread and the XP-discussion thread before that, yes.

Concerning Lag; Do you play on Red Eclipse too or elsewhere?

PvP is unplayable to due to lag. Players get kicked around each 2 hours to infinite loading screens. Teammates dissapear. Insanely expensive items dont work, the Cartel Market is a mess. Just stuff you're confronted with each and every day you play the game... It can get pretty tiresome. And it really doesn't need to be that way

That all on the presumption stealth is easy, stealth takes no resources. I don't presume such things. So no, I wouldn't agree with that equal rewarding is making combat useless. Since in order to stealth the zombies one needs to invest. To plan. To have difficulty too. Mostly everyone in this thread assumes stealth is a "golden ticket out of prison"... I have a feeling once people realise that's not necessarily the case for PE and that no, stealth isn't the easy option compared to combat, these kind of 'poins' loose a lot of their power. Do I have to state the difference between one value, set at desire, and a value used thousands of times in the game again? If the objective XP value is modified, that's it, over and done. If the XP-value is modified all 1000s of foes set around in the world are affected. Balance, carefully nurtured, is much harder to achieve when having to deal with such impossible to balance odds. You'll be severly limiting yourself in the use of foes (since their XP affect balance), respawns, and encounters. The proposed system of encounters scaling with difficulty could potentially lead to hard being easier than easy due to the increased XP. Again, limiting freedom for developers to create encounters, scenerio's due to having to cope with the system. Is that better, I ask you seriously...?

And if a single guy in his spare time can fix more issues on a game he's barely familiar than a paid full-time tech team that worked on a game for 6 years, that doesn't raise questions or makes you wonder... "WTF"? I have been playing for a few months now. Can't see I ever seen a considerable fix in their patchlog. But there's just no way around the many extra issues each patch introduces. Let's take last month as example. Week 1: "We modified Taral V to fix something" Week 2: "Yeah, we totally broke Taral V. But we fixed that now." Week 3: "Taral V is still not functioning 100% correct due to our week 1 tweak, no patch this week." Week 4: Well, that's tuesday with 1.7. We'll see if they can finally get their freakin' fix right in a month, or if that's too much to ask. It's like they not even test what the hell they're doing anymore too. And it concerns me that so many vary gamebreaking issues are left hanging... And yes, text issues take 10 sec tops in KOTOR2 (just open the dialog.tlk editor and tweak). I would expect a MMO to update and fix text issues each week. But all I notice is more and more text plainly missing. Or being broken. And like above, it's 2 months since they changed a function, and it's discription is still not corrected. I mean, what the hell? From my point as modder, I can't understand that at all... and it's not like issues mentioned by others on the forum are fixed either... How I wished they fixed the crashing, the lag, the broken flashpoints, the broken items, the broken quests, the broken systems, UI elements who aren't working at all and confusing everyone, mail system breaks (GTN mails anyone? Started recent apparently)... it just doesn't stop. And they have been there months. MONTHS.

Don't let Valorian cloud your mind with misinformation. What he says isn't true. An objective is exactly that, and objective. It's up to developers to deside what that is. Progress, quests, killing a critical foe, exploring. It's all possible. But it's customly set by developers, as to reward the players playing the game.

It's what I feel about modern RTS... I have no freaking overview having to rotate around all the crap they put in. Can't honestly say I like a single 3D RTS. Shame since I loved 2D RTS. Fortunately, 3D-ifying hasn't been so horrible for RPG's though. In Baldur's Gate or PS:T I never felt the need to rotate. In modern games where there is rotate, sure, I do. But only because since they have the rotate feature, they no longer care for making maps carefully for overview...

I don't mind BioWare (loved ME3). But I just can't stand Obsidian being called "lazy" for something that's actually quite a feat like KOTOR2.

It's not like when I was a sub the ingame tickets really did anything. I must have reported about 50 bugs. Look, 2 months later... they're all still in. Even the insignificant little typo's that should take 10 sec tops to fix...

BG/PST-style only please. No keywords, no horrible "mass effect" wheels. Just what is written is what you say. No more 'that's not what I wanted to say' a lot of modern RPG's are plagued with...

They weren't dissatisfied. They just wanted an x-mas rush. Nothing more, nothing less. As for the engine. Modified aurora from NWN, hardly new or anything they didn't already have 6 years experience working on (compared to OE's none). As for the ruleset, it already existed, d20 Star Wars. As for the universe... it's STAR WARS. And the only real 'new' planet was Taris. Maybe Manaan... All in all, seems a little bit too little to call OE lazy for doing stuff in a 1/4th timeframe. See what Bio itself does in that timeframe (Dragon Age 2)... I guess I made my point?