MaxQuest

Huh, haven't even looked at it from RP point of view. But I do completely agree here. My first thoughts when looking at priest subclasses where: - Berath: so I can take Rot Skulls, Minor Avatar and also multi-class into wizard for Blast + Penetrating Blast? Yes please. - Eothas: wohoho, superb. Now I can mix the points forte of druid, priest and chanter. As I already wrote in another thread: think of opening up with Painful Interdiction to lower fortitude for R.Storms stuns and will for Shinning Beacon. And when the Storms hit, stunned evemies get a high reflex malus vs Dragon Trashed. And now add the Minor Avatar as a cherry on top. - Magran: you must be kidding me. As a priest I do not want: Fan of Flames, Ray of Fire, Fireball nor Delayed Fireball. Priest already has better fire damage potential. Firebrand + Firebug on the other hand... that could be useful. - Skaen: "can learn rogue offensive abilities as priest spells" - what does this mean exactly? Are they subjected to per-rank spell-usage limit? Why not just "can learn rogue offensive abilities"? Also does this only include active stuff? If I can't get deathblows, then what's the incentive? - Wael: do Illusion spells, include only stuff with Confuse and Blind? Or also stuff that inflicts Paralyze, Stun, Prone, Petrify, Unconscious? In any case this subclass could make into a nice support-debilitator. Although will have to check if it will not get superseeded by a melee skald-illusionist or ranged trickster-beguiler.

Don't build your party around crits for the early game of PotD Or at least make sure to start each fight with Painful Interdiction -> paralyze effect -> hit the target with deflection lowered into abyss)

Exactly) That's why I don't really worry for the school locking. Not to mention that in PoE1 there are ~93 wizard spells. Even if the total number is shrinked to ~75 spells, and 2 schools out of 5 are locked, that would be 45 spells to choose from. The thing I don't like though, is that ex-vancian classes learn way too few spells on level-up. And if wizard can partially work it out via grimoires, druids and priests seem to be starving. Not to mention that they are already gated by low amount of spell-usages per rank. That being said, it would be nice if we could find/research a few occasional scrolls found around the world or received as quest rewards, and thus learn 5-7 spells extra over the game's duration.

Hmm, but those would be level 1 spells, no?

Seems like the game will incentivize respeccing. I hope cc-spells won't be useless on level 1 because of the very short duration.

With the amount of spells priest and druids can learn now, for a new player there is indeed such possibility. In PoE1 priests and druids of max level could learn/cast 52-53 spells. For comparisson In PoE2 there are 62 druid spells (up to rank 9), or 53 spells (up to rank 7). Out of these they can learn on levelup only up to 20 spells (according to this progression). But they will also need some abilities and talents, so it's even less. Overwhelming? Hmm, cannot relate. Sure, it was about 30-40% of spells that I used 90% of the time. But it was nice to have few situational solutions at hand as well.

This is likely the right guess. Although I am curious how big that bonus to Soul Whip will be... because in order to avoid the drain, cipher would want to cast powers asap, and not to continue auto-attacking. With a tooltip that writes something like: "focus drains for 15 focus per second for 3 seconds if left at max for 5 seconds"? Basically ascendant makes you want to achieve max focus as fast as possible, in order to benefit from the bonus to powers / soul whip, but at the risk of losing focus due to drain of unexpected overflow (especially if you use hard-hitting weapons; and focus is gained in big chunks). This risk is getting higher, along with dps/maxfocus proportion. Looks like a multi-classed ascendant will have higher risk and also higher benefit from this subclass, than a single-class ascendant; because he will likely have lower maxfocus. Not to mention that if the pool is big, cipher has no time to wait till it's getting full especially if he needs to cast a crucial power right now; or if the fight will end soon enough.

That wasn't a naked solo run though Just a few naked solo dragon fights)

Well, I have 3 ciphers... So my second Deadfire playthrough will likely be with a devout blade or devout ascendant. Haven't decided on the multi/sub classes for the first run though. Edit: actually thinking of: - (melee) shattered soul blade - (melee) shifter ascendant - (melee) stalker ascendant (echo spam on pet) - (ranged) helwalker ascendant (with long pain) - (ranged) sharpshooter ascendant/beguiler - (ranged) back jacket ascendant (with dual-pistols quick-switch; or blunderbusses if possible) - (ranged) ghost-heart ascendant (echo spam on pet; twinned arrows) - (ranged) trickster beguiler So.. yeah, there is a lot to think about)

I learn a new word everyday on this forum) Btw, grats with the 1000th post

Agreed, banning two schools outright seems a lil too much. On the other hand wizards can only use 2 spells of each rank per encounter, so the builds will likely end up highly specialized. Plus we have to see first how big is the power_level bonus for the spells of the selected school. Agreed. Enchanter's Free Action in it's current form looks kinda weak. Illusionist's free Mirrored Image is probably ok, as it will also be useful for some wizard offtanks. Evoker's echo could be interesting if the chance is high enough. Plus it was told that some empowers could also refund a spell/ability usage cost. So there might be a chance for recursive spamming for free. As for Transmuter, Ogre should retain current weapon / weapon + shield, or benefit from Novice Suffering in order to be useful on PotD. Or at the very least make this Hulk retain weapons if they deal crushing damage. Delay would make me think of some waiting before the actual action, not after, so yeah... The recovery in PoE is like catching a breath after doing something that takes effort. A recuperation of sorts. Btw it would be funny if first n actions would have lower recovery duration. n being influenced by CON, DEX and RES. Although forget it, just a random thought

Oops, corrected) As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough

After checking the video again, penalty descriptions actually explicitely write: recovery time. Not just [recovery] which could lead to ambiguity between duration and speed. That's a step forward I will edit my post.

Just posting bonuses and penalties of few subclasses, since it's easier for me to check them here, than open the video each time: Hellwalker: Bonus: - begin combat with 1 Wound - gain +1 Might for each Wound they have Penalty: - take 5% for each Wound they have Nalpazka: Bonus: - all drug effects last 50% longer - generate Wounds while receiving the benefits of drugs Penalty: - crash penalties from drugs cause the monk to be unable to receive healing - degenerate Wounds while not benefiting from drugs Shattered Pillar: Bonus: - gain Wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted Penalty: - cannot gain Wounds from damage received - required threshold to gain wounds increased - max Wound limit is decreased Conjurer: Bonus: - gain increased power level with Conjuration spells - Conjure Familiar - familiars provide a useful passive effect Penalty: - lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools - +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Conjuration school Enchanter: Bonus: - gain increased power level with Enchantment spells - Free Action - once per encounter when under effect of Hobble affliction, wizard can clear it and become immune to it for 10s Penalty: - lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools - +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Enchantment school Evoker: Bonus: - gain increased power level with Evocation spells - your evocation spells have a small (interesting how small??) chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their target again, immediately. Penalty: - lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools - +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Evocation school Illusionist: Bonus: - gain increased power level with Illusion spells - once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images" - when empowering spells there is a 30% chance of refunding the Empower point Penalty: - lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools - +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Illusion school Transmuter: Bonus: - gain increased power level with Transmutation spells - Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased. Penalty: - lose access to spells from Enchanting and Evocation schools - +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Transmutation school

Tbh, looking at stats of different Ogres from PoE1, and also how weak was Tenser's Transformation and Word of Changing in NWN2... I am a bit skeptical about Transmuter's transformation into Ogre... "While in this form, spells are disabled, but physical attributes are increased" - if wizard will be able to use the form, while being silenced from Citzal's Martial Power, and also be able to keep Citzal's Lance upon transformation, then it's other story though.

Much better now.

Helwalker get +1 MIG per each wound they have - so it's nice for their fortitude. But they also take +5% damage per each would they have. So yeah, remain only Unbroken/Goldpact and pure fighter. Maybe there will also be a Fighter/Goldpact + Wizard, depending on how potent will Llengrath's defensive spells will be.

Exactly And Deadfire will also add the Troubadour's bonus linger; and the extra 'fold' being the damage coefficient that comes from power_level (if it made it's way to the new system).

You have a point. Even in PoE1 wizards' way of learning spells was different from priest/dru. Instead of learning 3-9 spells immediately on each odd level, they were able to learn 2 on each odd, and 1 on each even level. The upside was that they could pay-learn up to 9-14 spells per rank and end up knowing up to 80-100 spells at max level. While if we combine the above link with this progression progression, it looks like wizard can learn 'permanently' up to 20 wizard spells, plus have access to those in his current grimoire. Now the question is: are the grimoires thick enough

Thanks for the link. So at least we are not hard-forced into alternating between classes. Yes, I also have noticed that Josh has included [Weapon & Shield Style] which is a talent, not an ability. There is one thing that worries me in that post though: 1 spell slot equals 1 ability slot? If so, that's not good, not good at all. In PoE1, on each odd level, fighter could select 1 ability, while priest and druid were learning 3-9 spells. Not to mention that if a lvl 3 battlemage/warden/cleric would have to choose between taking knockdown vs a rank 2 spell... guess what he would choose. Provided that fighter abilities use resources from a common pool, while spells are limited to spell-usages per rank (conform to spell-progression table by power level).

I was thinking about starting such a thread, and there it already is After taking a look at the presented subclasses I find majority of them quite interesting, and will briefly note down the first impression on each of them. Since we don't know the numbers behind them, plus they are subjected to changes, this preemptive evaluation is going to be approximate at best. But here we go anyway: BARBARIAN: 1. Corpse Eater - Targets unconscious enemies to devour their flesh and gain power. Powers cost more to use. - we don't know what "power" exactly, but I suppose it's the power to use abilities (as in the previous system). And since there are no "power_sources" in the new system, it will likely allow barbarian to recuperate resources required for usage of abilities of: paladin, rogues and fighters as well. - in Deadfire health and endurance have been mixed into a single pool; meaning that healing will become much more important. - a corpse-eater could easily prolong the fight for a long time if he had access to Lay on Hands or Unbending. Especially if corpse-eating would restore not only rage, but also discipline/zeal. 2. Berserker - Has a more powerful Frenzy, but attacks can damage friends as well as foes while Frenzied. - it could be an interesting idea to have a frontline of 2-3 such berserkers. It's ok if they end up carnage-hitting each-other, provided that they multi-class into a tankish fighter or monk. Also giving them weapons with Penetration just slightly lower than their AR should help vs them killing themselves. 3. Mage Slayer - Gains spell resistance and can disrupt enemy spells, but cannot use potions or scrolls and beneficial spells have shorter durations. - interesting, will the shorter duration of beneficial spells lead to higher HPS with healing over time abilities? - how good or bad this subclass gonna be, completely depends on numbers and on the enemies we will face. CHANTER: 1. Beckoner - Summoning invocations are cheaper and summon more creatures, but the creatures are weaker. - thinking of body blocking - weakness to enemies with AoE - good vs enemies that would waste their charms/dominates/directed stuns on these summoned creatures - synergy with priest's spark 2. Skald - Offensive invocations are cheaper and melee crits grant phrases, but all other invocations are more expensive. - think of such skald/barbarian focused on HoF and Seven Nights - think of such skald/mage-slayer played like interrupt barbarian (with min MIG / max PER,DEX) who is also able to spam: Killers Froze Stiff and The Lover Cried - another variant would be to mix this skald with a control-freak variant of wizard with DAoM and Merciless Gaze; together they would make a great cc-offtank. 3. Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive. - a great chanter subclass, focused on either dealing damage via DoT chants, or on keeping as many simultaneous buffs as possible. - has a built-in synergy with any class that is able to buff own MIG and especially INT. Thinking of Minor Avatar. Not to mention that priest of Eothas gets access to storm spells, and those provide a great setup for chants like Dragon Trashed, because they do provide a solid reflex malus, plus stun the enemies, allowing to kill them overtime remaining almost unscratched. CIPHER: 1. Ascendant - Powers and Soul Whip are more effective when used at Max Focus, but Focus drains quickly if left at Max for long. - am a bit dissapointed that it doesn't just increase your might or damage coefficient, because it could be great to arrive to max focus, and then start casting spells from your second class - other than that it's a great subclass, and I actually fail to see how it's penalty is a penalty at all, because cipher never wanted to idle at max focus anyway, because in PoE1 Soul Whip turns off once you achieve max focus, as simple as that; and thus I wonder what "Soul Whip is more effective when used at Max Focus" means exactly. - another thing is: "focus drains quickly if left at max" - but than it quickly becomes below max - and thus immediately stops draining, no? 2. Beguiler - Illusion powers are more powerful, but Soul Whip suffers when used against targets that are not vulnerable to Sneak Attack. - we were not yet presented with a list of "illusion powers". Looking at PoE1 it will probably include "Phantom Foes", "Secret Horrors" and "Fractured Volition". If so - this subclass will end up strictly worse than pure cipher. On the other hand if Illusion powers also include charm and dominate stuff - now we talking. 3. Soul Blade - Offensive cipher that can dump Focus into a Soul Annihilation melee attack for extra Raw damage. Shred powers have reduced Focus cost. Lower Max Focus. - the question is: will this extra raw damage count towards focus generation? - and yeah, here again, everything depends on what are the exact numbers; we have no other way to estimate how good or bad this subclass is. DRUID: 1. Fury - Shift into storm blights and gain bonuses with elemental spells. Cannot cast Restoration spells. - restoration spells are going to be much more important in Deadfire than in PoE1, so these bonuses with elem. spell better be good. - we don't know if shifting in a storm blight comes with any immunities; nor if there are bosses that deal related damage types. - we don't know if druid can cast spells while shifted in these blights; nor what are the blight stats. 2. Lifegiver - Rejuvenation spells are cast with increased Power Level but cannot cast Summon spells. - that's pretty awesome; solo aside, druid's summoning spells never seemed useful enough on the PotD difficulty, so we just get a bonus to healing department. 3. Shifter - Druid can shift to any animal form, once each, per combat and heals damage each time they shift back. Cannot cast spells while shifted. - this means that we won't be able to shift for defensive purpose; and the only idea is to deal damage in melee. - we will need a list of stuff that affects the shifted form. And most important: will bonuses to unarmed damage affect it's dps. - think of Ascendant cipher or Soul Blade, who shifts -> deals lots of damage -> generates a lot of focus and unloads his powers once the shift ends -> summons Firebrand -> ... FIGHTER: 1. Black Jacket - Bonus weapon proficiency, reduced Recovery when switching weapon, but lacks Constant Recovery. - a great subclass for anyone who is focused on burst and alpha-strikes. - it's interesting to test it with dual-pistols (or other firearms if possible; especially arquebuses and blunderbusses) - it's also interesting to check it's synergy with Soul Blade and Shattered Pillar when pistols are in dual-club mode 2. Devoted - May only be proficient in a single weapon. Higher Penetration and crit damage with that weapon. Suffers Accuracy penalty when using other weapons. - there are [weapons with high-damage, low-penetration] and there are [weapons with low-damage, high-penetration]; taking this subclass might provide the possibility to have it all. - has potential to either be boring if numbers are low, or broken otherwise; needs a careful fine-tuning. 3. Unbroken - Bonuses to Engagement and Disengagement Attacks, but lower Stride. - these bonuses mean little. On other hand if this subclass would influence enemy targeting preferences... it would be another story. - also, what's Stride? (it's capitalized, so I guess it's not just movement speed?) MONK 1. Helwalker - Begin all combats with Wounds, gain Might for every Wound. Wounds require more damage to acquire. - getting up to 10 extra Might is great; especially for DoTers and characters that have high base damage, but not so high damage coeficients. - in update #40 video video we see that this monk starts with just 1 Wound. That's kinda low. - in the same video, this monk is shown to take 5% extra damage per wound. So the extra Might comes at a kinda great cost. 2. Nalpazca - Drug effects last longer and Wound cap is increased while under the effects of drugs. Penalties while not under the effect of drugs. - the most interesting thing about this subclass, is that it is able to get Wounds over time, simply by being under effect of drugs. This might be useful for some squishy ranged character - who actually doesn't want to get hit a lot. - unfortunately we don't know yet how useful Deadfire drugs are going to be. Their PoE1 v3.0+ analogs were not that tasty. 3. Shattered Pillar - Gain Wounds by inflicting damage with melee weapons (fists or otherwise). Lower Max Wound cap, does not gain Wounds from receiving damage. - that's a superb idea, and has huge dps potential with dumping all wounds into torment's reach spam. - we'll have yet to see is abilities do count towards Wounds gain, or only auto-attacks are take into account - there is a potential synergy with carnage, as well as high dps of ascendant/soul blade/assassin/streetfighter/devout ... to be continued

I haven't deep-thought all the consequences yet, but on the first glance on the new system, I felt a bit disappointed, yes. Basically how I see it at the moment is: a whole extra layer of character building complexity... was removed. There were 55 multiclassing combinations + 11 pure class options. And the layer I am talking about, is how exactly those multiclass combos could be built. At lvl 20, we could have 19/1, 18/2, 17/3... 20 final variations. Now we are basically stuck with 10/10. Additionally we are limited in how exactly do we want to progress. Imagine that Dragon Trashed is still obtainable at lvl 9 the earliest, and we want to take an Unbroken Troubadour. It's quite obvious that as a player I would want to either: - take first 9 levels in chanter, and only after that start investing in fighter, or - take 4/5 levels in chanter, 1 level in fighter (such that you start with 2 discipline), 5/4 levels in chanter, and only after that dump the rest in fighter. but not the alternating c/f/c/f/c/f route... So the disappointment mainly comes from: - the mentioned limitations - additionally I've considered the initial (power source) system as really new and ambitious, and was eager to see how Josh is going to balance it. - and ofc I am going to miss the potential sweet spots On the other hand, the new system has it's PROs as well: - it's far easier to balance (self-explanatory) - and thus opens the possibility of 'safer' addition of prestige-classes and extra subclasses in the future. - new system is more "new-player" friendly because of it's simplicity; although this reminds me of Hearthstone's "new players would be confused" argument a bit. All-in-all, [if on the levels that grant us +1 ability we are free to choose the ability from both classes we multiclass into; i.e. can keep taking abilities from class A only, without being forced into alternating selection] I am ok with the changes, as there is still plenty of room for build optimization. Andrea probably got a bit confused on the chant effect duration. Let's take Dragon Trashed for example. In PoE1 it has [8s base duration] + [4s base linger]; for total of 12s Effect (DoT) duration (@10 INT). > Brisk Recitation affects base duration. At max level bringing it to 4s. > While INT and Troubadour subclass affect linger duration. To put it into perspective (with Dragon Trashed dealing 20 damage per tick | all at 10 MIG): - v1.a. base chanter (10 INT, no BR): every 8s is applied DT DoT that deals 100.0 damage over 12s - v1.b. troubadour (10 INT, no BR): every 8s is applied DT DoT that deals 116.6 damage over 14s - v2.a. base chanter (20 INT, no BR): every 8s is applied DT DoT that deals 116.6 damage over 14s - v2.b. troubadour (20 INT, no BR): every 8s is applied DT DoT that deals 141.6 damage over 17s - v3.a. base chanter (10 INT, max BR): every 4s is applied DT DoT that deals 66.6 damage over 8s - v3.b. troubadour (10 INT, max BR): every 4s is applied DT DoT that deals 83.3 damage over 10s - v4.a. base chanter (20 INT, max BR): every 4s is applied DT DoT that deals 83.3 damage over 10s - v4.b. troubadour (20 INT, max BR): every 4s is applied DT DoT that deals 108.3 damage over 13s So as you can see Brisk Recitation is great. It just so that Troubadour is not that much focused on invocations; but rather on dealing damage via DoT chants. Btw think of Troubadour of Eothas: Minor Avatar -> Painful Interdiction (fort malus) -> Storm Spells (stuns + reflex malus) -> Dragon Trashed

I didn't, but I am 99% sure that Aefyllath will add to Spark damage as iirc each instance goes through attack resolution. Btw, besides cipher, there is also another synergy for the Spark. In theory it should be really good with a big number of allied targets: animal companions, figurines... the Deadfire Beckoner subclass... CW is no longer triggered by DoT ticks. Afaik the application of a DoT does not trigger it either, because no damage is dealt.

Happens) Btw, Spark of the Souls also generates focus for the affected ciphers; but uses priest's MIG for calculations)

Let's think. First of all flails are fast, low-hitting weapons the +30% graze-to-hit conversion. Whom can they benefit the most?: - someone who hasn't eliminated grazes, - and thus doesn't rely on critting, but still has high damage modifiers to overcome enemy DR (and make use of that micro-lash if present) - someone who auto-attacks a lot, but doesn't rely on Primary and especially on Full-Action attacks. There are not that many unique flails in the game... - Gaun's Share - draining - Starcaller - extra 10% damage as burn; stunning; spellstrike: Minoletta's Minor Missiles - Unforgiven - extra 10% damage as burn; speed - Forgotten Tear of the Beloved - very weak spellchance effect (10% to daze the target); spellbind: Prayer Against Treachery (1 per rest); spellblind: Suppress Affliction (2 per rest) > In terms of damage, flails (and specifically Starcaller/Unforgiven) could benefit only cipher, and a weird low-per melee rogue (without Finishing Blow and Backstab). > In terms of utility, there is the Forgotten Tear which one would use only for it's spellbinds and then would switch to other weapon.