Boeroer

@Jayd: Very nice rundown. I would love to put this into the build list - but I cannot because the new forum update prevents edits for posts that are older than 8 days... :puke: Few questions: I believe(d) Blood Thirst/Bloodlust don't get triggered on DoT-kills. Is that wrong (would be happy)? do Carnage hits proc Avenging Storm (from scroll or helmet)? Afaik they do not since they are not treated as weapon attacks (mechanically/in code) does Carnage of the Stag's Spiritshift form proc Avenging Storm? Same as Barb's Carnage but who knows? Barbaric Smash + Bloody Slaughter: what do you mean by "increased base damage"? The 50% dmg bonus? I guess you mean something like "50% damage based on weapon base damage" (yeah, sounds awful I know ) and not that the weapon base damage gets increased (which it doesn't)? Then some comments: Afaik Blood Thirst will not influence your recovery of the killing blow itself but only the next recovery. However, if you kill an enemy with Relentless Storm/Nature's Terror/etc. right before you hit another one with your claws then you will get 0 recovery for the claw attack and - if you kill with that - also for the next action. Thus, the combination of lingering spells like Chillfog/Rel. Storm/Symbol of <whomever> + melee attacks + Blood Thirst can be truly devastating - I mean for the enemy. That makes the combo Caster/Barbarian a great thing - naturally including Druid/Barb. I would argue that Berserker/Shifter is an awesome combo. What Druids lack for their spells and martial attacks usually is PEN. At least on PotD - for the rest of the difficulties it doesn't matter that much. A Berserker's Frenzy not only damages yourself (which is unfortunate) but also gives you Tenacious with means +2 PEN on top of the MIG. It also gives you +2 AR by the way which will stack with a Bear form's armor (+2 on top of the already good stats) and Barb's other stuff like Thick Skinned. This AR overbundance, combined with the healing capabilites (prevents going down from Frenzy's self damage) and the increased dps through PEN, makes a Berserker/Shifter a great combo. You are right though that being confused is a fat no-no. And that you have to work around it. That means some micro. But I think it's totally worth it. Confusion is especially bad with spells like Relentless Storm etc. which will hit yourself (can be used with Deltro's Helm though!) and your friends. However - if you wear an item like Devil of Caroc's Breastplate you will be immune to confusion - as long as you trigger Frenzy only when not shifted OR stop the shift shortly to allow the resistance to remove the confusion. Same with Modwyr... TSo actually you can play around with that: if you want to be confused - for example in order to hit yourself with a Storm spell to trigger the Deltro's Helm bonus - you can frenzy while shifted, after you cast Relentless Storm some time before. You will get hit immediately and receive the bonus, switch back which instantly removes the confusion, heal a bit in the process, maybe cast another spell and and then shift again. Win-win but microish - but also intersting from a tactical perspective. If you simply want to get rid of the confusion for good just eat Luminous Lobster during all rests or take a chunk of Svef. Anyway: great work!

Yes. They are in the post. 🤨

I actually never said that the auto-attacks that follow Eternal Devotion will be counted as elemental. Or at least I didn't mean to say that. They never did work that way. Adding a lash doesn't turn weapon attacks into elemental attacks (ask Druid's Wildstrike: same thing). They need a keyword. Only the initial attack of "Eternal Devotion" is keyworded with burn. The following attacks will only have a lash and that does not automatically mean they count as elemental attacks. So it is correct and confirmed that you get -5 ACC as long as you don't use a weapon which itself is keyworded properly. However: the lash of Eternal Devotion adds to the imbue spell damage(!) That is pretty important and was the point I was trying to make. Sorry if I caused confusion on that part. So: with Eternal Devotion itself (the attack ability) you don't suffer the -5 ACC. With auto-attacks, even lashed ones, you will suffer (as long as you are not using an elemental weapon as Frostseeker etc.).

I made up my mind for b). Implement non-subclass restrictive trinkets for Priests and Druids. Those will have some bonus spells (like Grimoires) that broaden your portfolio. This may include new spiritual weapons. AND/OR they add some other features (like PL bonus, Lesser Sneak or whatever) which fit the theme of the trinket and can give a twist. I already "brainstormed" that Shifter trinket that would turn Spiritshift into a modal for example. What do you think? Edit: oh, and I don't want to go for "Magran's x" and "Skean's Y" as trinket names by the way. This is just a minor detail, but I think it would be more interesting to use themes that are build around saints (like St. Rumbalt) and relics and stuff. So for example instead of Skean's Shard it could be "Slaves Worry Stone" and be themed around despair and oppression and give the according spells and feats. Instead of "Abydon's Armory" it would be "St. Durwell's Rivet" or something. Just to make things more interesting and lore-ish. There are several saints mentioned in books and items. Also one could pay tributes to certain chars from PoE this way. Imagine "Scorched Piece of Cloth" which is actually a part of Durance's Robe - which gives you some Punishment spells and a spiritual weapon "Durance's Staff". Or "the Apprentice's Honing Stone" which is from the girl in WM who build the Unlabored Blade. It would be themed around Abydon's and say some words about the girl in it's description. Stuff like that. Just brainstorming here...

Skaen's Sneak Attack in PoE only worked with weapons, but I get your point. I don't think 1) and 2) contradict each other by the way. We could totally combine both: give some additional spells that fit the theme of the trinket to expand the spell pool AND add some nice "special features" like you described. To use the example of Skaen's Shard: a) get a few Condemnation/Punishment spells and b) add Sneak Attack Bonus to spells. And as my examples show I'm totally for that. To make Priests and Druids more versatile and end the spell choice "railroading" at level up AND at the same time give some nice build options and twists. It may be right that making special trinkets for a subclass that have only upsides is the same as making no trinkets but just adding the upsides to the subclass. I think this idea rose up because I wanted to bring back the old PoE Priest weapons (Magran = Arquebus and so on). So we could do the following: a) make the alternative Spiritual Weapons native abilities - no trinket involved (@AndreaColombo suggested it already) - and develop trinkets like I said above. Ones that add spells that fit the trinket theme and adds another fitting "twist". You can also see those in the examples I quoted above. This has to be easy enough though else it's not moddable. b) make the trinkets with the spiritual weapons non subclass restrictive. That means every Priest could use Magran's Arquebus or Berath's Mace etc. Solution a) would be cleaner. Keep in mind that your dispositions influence the power of the spiritual weapon. So it's loosely tied to subclass dispositions anyway. However: solution b) opens up more options. For example you could use Magran's Arquebus without drawback as non-magranite Priest if you managed to not collect contradicting dispositions. AND it would allow for spiritual weapons of deities that are not in the game (hello Abydon's Spiritual Hammer...). Now we have to decide which route to go...

Some random thoughts about trinkets from this thread - some weeks ago. Maybe already forgotten. Those would be additional ones that could complement the special-subclass-trinkets we discussed above. Just to make some themed builds that are not tied to subclasses too rigidly.

I guess that's why Obsidian didn't bother. I just think it super unbalanced that ciphers get 10 focus, Paladins et al. get 1 Zeal and Wizard/Druid/Chanter get 1 spell use per spell tier (wtf?). I personally would change Brilliant to +5 INT and +3 to all PL (upgrade from Acute which does +1 PL). Problem solved, still great buff and not much work. But I can already hear the lament.

@Phenomenum: Wait, before I vote: I thought the duration that SoT adds is not affected by neither INT nor Power Level? Has that changed? I don't think so... If not: why nerf it in the first place? The SoT+Brilliant cheese is not caused by SoT, it's caused by Brilliant. Next you'd have to nerf Wall of Draining... If you want to nerf something it's Brilliant. Just make it a bit slower for spell replenishment (12 secs instead of 6) so that you can't chain SoT anymore. Remember that Brilliant replenishes only 1 resource (like Discipline) per 6 seconds but 1 spell use for ALL spell levels. This is not fair at all AND is the problem that causes the SoT/WoD/Brilliant cheese.

I did. If you make a dedicated trinket for every Priest subclass and not make it swappable this will lead to a situation where a Priest of Magran always stays with this trinket. Wasn't our motivation to invent trinkets that the Priest (and Druid) always picks the same spells and doesn't have the flexibility that a Wizard has? He will then again not use Prayers/Litanies and otehr spells which are more situational and so on. I thought giving several (different) trinkets that provide some bonus spells that you can cast and which are swappable would solve this exact problem. Why complicated? If the bonus spells just get added to your spell portfolio (like Grimoirs do it) you don't get access to those spells unless you have the right Power Level. So if there's a PL 8 spell on the trinket but you are PL 6 you can't cast it (yet). I don't want to add the spells as 1/encounter abilites because it causes problems. I'd like them to be like grimoires "light" with fewer spells (because priests (and druid) already get bonus spells at level up) and other nice bonuses like we write above.. Yes, but those are a) crap and b) not class specific. The intentional idea with trinkets was that every class gets special ones. As I said I would keep it smiple and maybe only do ones that alter passives or so. Like +10% to Sneak Attack or stuff like that. Obviously this has very low priority... Concerning auto-casts: ok. I find the idea nice but it may be a bit too good.

By the way I would have no problem with basic, non-swappable trinkets for every class. If we keep it real simple and don't devide by subclasses (e.g. trinket for Fighters just improves one single ability like raise Armored Grace from 25% to 30% or just gives +1 discipline or adds a single passive) then I think it wouldn't be too much work... They don't need modals, just an icon and short description. Maybe I would make them all about altering passives as the general approach?

@Phenomenum: I don't know if I want to follow a too rigid pattern with the priests' trinkets. Your examples are cool - but you already see upcoming problems due to the structural uniformity: e.g. you can't immediately find fitting auto-casts for every subclass. Which is a minor problem of course, but still... Since trinkets can be very different in shape and effect I think we should emphasize on that. I'm totally in for giving each Priest subclass a special trinket though. One that contains the additional spiritual weapon. But maybe they don't need to all follow the same pattern? One the other hand it's much easier to actually finish this stuff if we follow such a rigid pattern you suggested. Use it as a guideline. And as you said: it's better to do something than to endlessly speak about it and not knowing what we want to do actually. So maybe we take this as a good starting point and see where it's going. Nobody will stop use from adding more (and more "unique" or "weird") trinkets later (like relics from the church's saints or something like univeral prayerbook that only contains prayers/litanies) or to change the behaviour of the initial ones after actual playtesting. So - cool. Let's see what my take on this would be: First of all I would like to be able to switch those trinkets from Quick Slots like you can with grimoires. Did you plan to make them "fixed" or non-swappable during encounter? Most spells you suggested so far are nice. What about PL 8 and 9 stuff for SC priests? I feel we should at least include one spell of 8 or 9 per trinket. But I would add the bonus spells like a grimoire does it: you add the spell to your actual portfolio but you don't gain a spell use. So no 1/encounter stuff. Because I guss those also wouldn't scale with PL, right? Since cast from items and not cast from character. However, a trinket may add a spell use to spell tiers - for example if the bonus spells are a PL 2 spell and a PL 5 spell the trinket could grant one additional spell use of PL 2 and one of PL 5. Then you are not as "locked" into using those exact spells in every encounter. I mean IF you want to allow a bonus spell use in the first place. Wizards only get this through the whole spell tier board from Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry - and it's OP basically. Rymrgand: spiritual weapon: I'd vote for a two handed battle axe. He seems to be all about axes - his minotaurs have them and so on. bonus spells: Iconic Projection (healing is not Rymrgand's favorite domain), Winter Wind (PL 1), Hailstorm (PL 4) auto cast: maybe "Entropy" on knock out? I fits so beautifully and you don't need to create a foe-only version of Freezing Pillar. auto-cast alternative: when receiving crit in combat: retaliate with Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp or Fetid Caress (1/encounter)? Gaun: spiritual weapon: a scythe (weapon proficiency pollaxe). I fear there's no model for this (maybe there are Roparu who have scythes)? But it would be so good for reaping and all... Lord Darryn's Voulge would maybe the closest that we have when it comes to "scythish" blades. auto-cast: Watchful Presence a the start of combat? or instead give higher light radius even without a lantern or St. Drogga's Skull? Woedica: spiritual weapon: Executioner's sword (use the model of Naga Great Swords which looks fitting, weapon proficiency Great Sword). spiritual weapon alternative: scepter (I mean rulership and queen and all that) auto-cast: Searing Seal when bloodied (burned queen) (1/encounter)? Wael: auto-cast: is Shadowing Beyond that easy? Where/how do you place the target? I would suggest Smoke Veil. Skaen: spiritual weapon: no additional - Skaen already got his two PoE-weapons (stiletto and club). What he lost was his Lesser Sneak Attack (+20%). I would give him that as passive - but non-scaling. spiritual weapon alternative: whip ("today my master chokes on his own whip"). Or chain. Weapon proficiency flail. Unfortunately we don't have whip models. But maybe one can turn flail heads invisible? Would look cool maybe? Berath: spiritual weapon: single mace in main hand. Dual wielded mace is kind of weird and also if somebody wants to play a "Pallid Knight" sort of priest mace and shield make more sense. Makes room for some cool summoned/non summoned weapon setups. auto-cast: Finger of Death on knockout would be so cool. Wouldn't even be very powerful since it's unlikely that the enemy is near death as well. But if he is... Barring Death's Door seems to be too good? It comes with Nemnok's Cloak as well. auto-cast: Reviving Exhortation on knockout on self (possible)? 1/encounter. Refuses to stay dead like several Death Guards have done (in PoE as well as in Deadfire).

Now stop it already. Else I have to spend all my limited likes for today on you.

Most mature post of today - and I guess at least of the whole next week, too. Not that I generally dislike immature stuff... just saying.

I agree. Also good point pro trinkets (vs. additonal "native" ability): you'd need to spend an ability point on the latter while you would get it "for free" with the trinket. What we do want achieve is to give Priests and Druids a bit of the advantages that Wizards have with grimoires (not the same ones because Priests and Druids already get bonus spells). So more "unique" thigs in trinkets is cool with me. But I'm not opposed to adding a native ability that adds a second spiritial weapon choice either. I mean it's not that most players woul choose both spiritual weapon options I guess...? But leaning towards "additional spiritual weapons on trinkets". You can do a lot of awesome stuff with a trinket (adding a bit of description, a "theme", even a bit of lore or story if you want). Adding an additional ability to the tree is just that. Quite limited experience all in all. One could do one "spiritual weapon" trinket for every subclass, sure. And nothing says they couldn't look like mini-versions of the weapons or something. Or a magranite priest's essay about warfare that contains the spell - whatever.

Afaik DID is just the newer, more accurate and scientific term for what was once named Multiple Personality Disorder.

@Phenomenum: Yes, something like that. To bring back a bit of PoE nostalgia (and options for Priests). Just an idea though - but since our trinkets are not yet set in stone and we might need some more ideas for trinkets in general... @AndreaColombo: would also be a possibility. I was just searching for more "themes" for trinkets. To make them unique and interesting. I do miss my Priest of Magran with an Arquebus.

@Phenomenum: I asked because of the post above (that I wrote yesterday).

@Phenomenum: Do you know if it's possible to add the visual effects of the spiritual weapons to other weapons models via mod? In order to create otjer variants of spiritual weapons? I read about that Aldris Blade of Captain Crow sabre i the mod forum (the one whose grip'n stuff looks like a chicken ribcage with wings) and for example the wings could be made invisible. So... I guess there are some things that one can do...?

So, you'll never accidentially play a Tactician? Brilliant is by far the strongest of all inspirations - I think nobody denies that. Why it replenishes 1 spell use of each tier per tick is totally beyond me. Who thought that this would be a balanced 3rd INT inspiration tier? Then they realised that it might be a bit strong when auddenly all those "unlimited resources" Chanter/X builds popped up - but instead of nerfing Brilliant (e.g. making it slower for spell regeneraion - or just giving it a high PL bonus instead) they took it away from the Chanter (and nerfed tons of other stuff that was not nearly as OP - Baubles of the Fin whoohee). Then they put in on a cloak and designed a whole subclass around that... SoT wouldn't be so OP if Brilliant wouldn't allow to spam it in less than 10 sec. If Brilliant would instead replenish 1 single spell use per tick (like Blood Sacrifice) there would be not much of a problem. Or if it didn't tick every 6 secs but ever 12 (for spells - for resources 6 secs is fine). This SoT/Brilliant or Wall of Draining/Brilliant abuse is so obvious - I don't get why nobody at Obsidian saw this coming. This is the first thing I think about when reading about a spell that prolongs buffs for 10+ seconds and an effect that makes you regain spell uses every 6 secs. Now all Ultimate runs either include Tactician or Shroud of the Phantasm... I wonder why...?

The problem is Brilliant, not Salvation of Time.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0039279 It basically says that you can determine if somebody fakes that disorder or not - with neurobiology.

Schizophrenia and Multiple Personality Disorder are two completely different things. Both are very real things though.

Yes, you would need to reinstall. Adding mods to your game is pretty easy. Search for the "override" folder in your Deadfire directory and place the mod folder in there.

Back to trinkets: how about some that bring back the good old Priest weapons from PoE1? In PoE a Priest of Magran could get +10 ACC with Sword and Arquebus, Wael got Quarterstaff and Rod, Berath Great Sword and Mace, Eothas Morningstar and Flail and so on. Most spiritual weapons in Deadfire miss one of those. Magran got Sword + Pistol (why?) but no arquebus, Berath Great Sword (no Mace), Wael has Rod (no Quarterstaff)... So what about trinkets that add a spell like "Spiritual Mace" for a Priest of Berath for example (same bonuses)? Only question is: would it be possible to achieve the same look? And if not: is that a problem?

They kept stiletto AND club from the PoE Priest of Skaen. Would have been cool to make two spiritual weapon spells per Subclass: e.g. Spiritual Sword and Spiritual Arquebus for Magran. If you want both you'd have to pick both. Then you'd have the same options as in PoE bus consistent with Deadfire. Hm... maybe worth a mod. Although I don't know if you could replicate the "spiritual weapon look" for weapons like arquebus, quarterstaff etc.